[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Pond

I didn't mean that estate agents are singly responsible; yes the market is supply and demand to a massive degree.

As you can probably tell I really dislike estate agents as a job (not going to call it a profession). I have dealt with many, many of them. Unfortunately they have a monopoly so with buying and selling houses it is unavoidable.

I have never, ever had dealings with one who knows anything about property, or cares. They are pure parasites as they provide nothing that can't be done by the vendor.
I have always ended up doing their work for them and then paying them 1-2% for the privilege.
They don't sell anything. You cannot sell a house, it sells itself.

Anyway back to mortgages: luckily I don't have one anymore

One of my best friends and former neighbour is an estate agent and a Chartered Surveyor. His dad was estate agent before him, his son will take over the business.

They are good. two local offices, know their market, are sensible in their suggestions. I have never used anyone else in their market.

Dont judge all the same, although agree around the northern home counties they are seemingly exceptionally sh1t

[SantaEugence]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

Small grain of truth there. Last time we sold we got a great offer and the EA boss was keen I accept. I said to him please tell the buyer I will only accept their offer plus 15k. The buyer agreed.
The boss had a long grumble about how now he would be under pressure from future clients to attain that price for my type of property and for him volume was probably more important than the final price achieved and %from that etc. Almost felt he wasn't really working for me.

Dare I ask but if you got a great offer why did you ask for another £15k…

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by SantaEugence

Dare I ask but if you got a great offer why did you ask for another £15k…

Sure,I was there at the viewings,,the said couple were interested and I explained the upgrades I had spent on when compared to a similar new build and the price I had in mind and why.
When the offer came from them it was well above the home report but 15k short of the price I had in mind I had a feeling the couple would understand why I was asking for an extra 15k which luckily they did.

[SantaEugence]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

Sure,I was there at the viewings,,the said couple were interested and I explained the upgrades I had spent on when compared to a similar new build and the price I had in mind and why.
When the offer came from them it was well above the home report but 15k short of the price I had in mind I had a feeling the couple would understand why I was asking for an extra 15k which luckily they did.

Ah sorry, I read that as, they offered you what you wanted but you thought you'd squeeze them for another £15k. Makes sense!

Like the post above about shafting renters for extra money for the sake of it. Sadly my (admittedly non-polite) response to that one got immediately flagged and deleted. Guess people don't like hearing some home truths…

[un1eash]

Something has to give, I'm glad I moved when I did but taking on a large mortgage isn't without its risks with the interest rates rising at the rate they are. Currently on a 5 year fixed so don't need to worry about it too much for now.

[Scoobyd]

It has to be remembered that rates are increasing from a base of practically nothing. They've been at historic lows for many years so whilst they're creeping up now I don't think rates of 3-4% for a 5 year fixed rate are what you'd call high. Just higher than the lows that have been enjoyed for such a long time. And for many it means a doubling of their interest payments once they come off existing fixed deals and need to switch onto new ones. Which will hit a lot of people hard.

It shouldn't do though. Because nobody should have maxed out borrowing based on them only being able to afford the monthly payments at the low fixed rate they sign up for. Every mortgage offer/illustration has a stress test showing what the monthly payments would be should interest rates go up to 'x' amount and what the cost would be on just the lenders variable rate. If you can't afford these payments in a worse case scenario there's a strong argument you can't afford the mortgage. The average mortgage term is 25 years. Yes rates may have been low when you took it out but will they remain that affordable for 25 years? No one can predict that, but unlikely.

Many have taken advantage of lower rates to get themselves into a bigger house than they may ordinarily have gone for, or to take out a load of further borrowing for home improvements etc. And many of those people will likely struggle when they come off existing fixed rates and see the jump in monthly payments for the next one. Especially when added to higher energy costs, fuel costs etc.

That said I certainly don't see a crash in the property market. A leveling off perhaps, maybe even a slight dip depending on how things pan out, but not a crash. Supply and demand is what helps drive the prices and there's still way more demand than supply out there.

[moonshine]

Originally Posted by Scoobyd

It has to be remembered that rates are increasing from a base of practically nothing. They've been at historic lows for many years so whilst they're creeping up now I don't think rates of 3-4% for a 5 year fixed rate are what you'd call high. Just higher than the lows that have been enjoyed for such a long time. And for many it means a doubling of their interest payments once they come off existing fixed deals and need to switch onto new ones. Which will hit a lot of people hard.

It shouldn't do though. Because nobody should have maxed out borrowing based on them only being able to afford the monthly payments at the low fixed rate they sign up for. Every mortgage offer/illustration has a stress test showing what the monthly payments would be should interest rates go up to 'x' amount and what the cost would be on just the lenders variable rate. If you can't afford these payments in a worse case scenario there's a strong argument you can't afford the mortgage. The average mortgage term is 25 years. Yes rates may have been low when you took it out but will they remain that affordable for 25 years? No one can predict that, but unlikely.

Many have taken advantage of lower rates to get themselves into a bigger house than they may ordinarily have gone for, or to take out a load of further borrowing for home improvements etc. And many of those people will likely struggle when they come off existing fixed rates and see the jump in monthly payments for the next one. Especially when added to higher energy costs, fuel costs etc.

That said I certainly don't see a crash in the property market. A leveling off perhaps, maybe even a slight dip depending on how things pan out, but not a crash. Supply and demand is what helps drive the prices and there's still way more demand than supply out there.

There was an article by Martin Lewis a few weeks ago which said existing mortgage holders who are on fixed deals that are coming to an end are at risky of not bring able to meet the affordability tests that are now in place and have to be met when taking out a new mortgage.

This means there is a risk they may be unable to remortgage and move onto a new deal and they can become stuck on the Standard variable rate of their existing mortgage provider, which will be significantly higher than the discounted rates available on the wider mortgage market.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by moonshine

There was an article by Martin Lewis a few weeks ago which said existing mortgage holders who are on fixed deals that are coming to an end are at risky of not bring able to meet the affordability tests that are now in place and have to be met when taking out a new mortgage.

This means there is a risk they may be unable to remortgage and move onto a new deal and they can become stuck on the Standard variable rate of their existing mortgage provider, which will be significantly higher than the discounted rates available on the wider mortgage market.

That has to be the true sign of a stupid market, you cant have a cheaper rate as you cant afford it, so you will have to have the expensive rate....

Bonkers!

[Scoobyd]

Originally Posted by moonshine

There was an article by Martin Lewis a few weeks ago which said existing mortgage holders who are on fixed deals that are coming to an end are at risky of not bring able to meet the affordability tests that are now in place and have to be met when taking out a new mortgage.

This means there is a risk they may be unable to remortgage and move onto a new deal and they can become stuck on the Standard variable rate of their existing mortgage provider, which will be significantly higher than the discounted rates available on the wider mortgage market.

If that's what he said then it's not strictly true. That would only apply if someone was looking to move away from their existing lender to a new lender and secure a better rate. As the new lender would want a new full affordability assessment based on them being a new customer. But most lenders offer what's called a 'product transfer' to existing customers which means you're able to switch onto the next best deal available, be it a new fixed rate for example, instantly with no new affordability checks. You can usually do this up to 3-6 months before your current deal comes to an end. As long as your payment history is good.

This was handy if rates were currently lower than the deal you were on as you could jump off your old rate onto the new rate before your fixed term came to an end meaning you could start saving money earlier. Now though, as most fixed rates coming to an end will be a fair whack lower than what you'd be offered now, you'd just wait until the final month of your fixed rate before setting up the product transfer to kick in from the following month.

It's just basic housekeeping or having a good financial adviser or mortgage broker that keeps on top of that all for you. It's scary the amount of people out there though that are paying the lenders variable rate, and have been for years, because an old deal ended and reverted to the variable without them knowing they could just jump onto a new deal. Just throwing money away each month. The lenders must love those customers!

[moonshine]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/marti...b-27058177.amp

[Scoobyd]

Originally Posted by moonshine

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/marti...b-27058177.amp

Yup, like I say that would only apply if moving lenders. A product transfer with your existing lender onto a new fixed deal doesn't require new affordability checks as long as you've been making your previous payments all the time. It's literally a 5 minute process online and done.

[R0B]

Originally Posted by Pond

I didn't mean that estate agents are singly responsible; yes the market is supply and demand to a massive degree.

As you can probably tell I really dislike estate agents as a job (not going to call it a profession). I have dealt with many, many of them. Unfortunately they have a monopoly so with buying and selling houses it is unavoidable.

I have never, ever had dealings with one who knows anything about property, or cares. They are pure parasites as they provide nothing that can't be done by the vendor.
I have always ended up doing their work for them and then paying them 1-2% for the privilege.
They don't sell anything. You cannot sell a house, it sells itself.

Anyway back to mortgages: luckily I don't have one anymore

Either you've had bad luck or you're the problem.

My father was a successful estate agent (chain of three) and was passionately honest, independent and never did anything but work very hard to do the best for his clients.

Many of my family are in agency and hold the same values.

I think if I said 'all people from xxx country are arseholes because I've dealt with some of them and they were arseholes' I'd be called a racist.

You can take a view but not refer to a specific profession as parasitic when you've dealt with 0.0000001% of its mass.

[KRS_SN]

Fuel prices, house prices, rental prices, energy prices,car prices,mortgage rates,
NHS wait lists,passport processing times, airport queue times etc.
Never ending rises except pay/wages..
I'm not quite sure how this is a phase. Seems like a semi permanent wholesale irreversible attack that's just begun. Everything around is being eroded in slow motion.

[Scoobyd]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

Fuel prices, house prices, rental prices, energy prices,car prices,mortgage rates,
NHS wait lists,passport processing times, airport queue times etc.
Never ending rises except pay/wages..
I'm not quite sure how this is a phase. Seems like a semi permanent wholesale irreversible attack that's just begun. Everything around is being eroded in slow motion.

It is a phase, it's not permanent, and it's not irreversible. Periods like this are a perfectly normal part of life. They come and they go.

[Pond]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

Fuel prices, house prices, rental prices, energy prices,car prices,mortgage rates,
NHS wait lists,passport processing times, airport queue times etc.
Never ending rises except pay/wages..
I'm not quite sure how this is a phase. Seems like a semi permanent wholesale irreversible attack that's just begun. Everything around is being eroded in slow motion.

Other than that, though, everything's just peachy!

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by Scoobyd

It is a phase, it's not permanent, and it's not irreversible. Periods like this are a perfectly normal part of life. They come and they go.

Seems like a tsunami of factors aligning together. This might be quite a bad/long phase.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

Fuel prices, house prices, rental prices, energy prices,car prices,mortgage rates,
NHS wait lists,passport processing times, airport queue times etc.
Never ending rises except pay/wages..
I'm not quite sure how this is a phase. Seems like a semi permanent wholesale irreversible attack that's just begun. Everything around is being eroded in slow motion.

Ever increasing populous and finite planetary resources.

#endgame

[Pond]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Ever increasing populous and finite planetary resources.

#endgame

World economies balanced on a razor's edge with no foresight or contingencies, living for today and not planning for tomorrow.

TBH we have all had it far too good for too long. Comes as a bit of a shock when it goes a bit pear-shaped, eh?

They used to call it capitalism; no idea what you would call it these days other than stupid. And I am by no means a socialist.

[KRS_SN]

Fixed incomes. Expenses skyrocketing. Credit will save the day for a while but once that's run dry it's going to be an erosion in living standards as we know it.
JustChris I'm not sure it's just to do with population/finite resources etc as that's not new to the equation.
Seems that printing money to balance books may eventually catch up because the money is worth less as more has been printed and inflation is rampant.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

Seems that printing money to balance books may eventually catch up

Eveyone knew this though, but there is no denying QE has enabled a whole generation of people (I included my self in this) to get into property that is far above our income levels at a much younger age. We must be youngest family on the street by 2 decades if not more.

Without QE and low interest rates our current house was way beyond our affordability, I was always aware of the Interest rate rise 'risk', hence getting 5 years and more recently 10 year fixed rates in. Essentially our current 'final' family home will have been paid for by a 2% APR loan over 15 years, with inflation running at a higher rate for most of those years.......so in effect inflation is eroding our mortgage debt, whilst low APR has given access to far more property assessts I could have dreamed of at 35!!!

The party is now clearly coming to an end, but we've been lucky enough to have our pie and eat it. The 'deillma' now for me is our building works hasn't started yet, so we are very cash rich at present, and given every market crash offers the chance to 'invest' there is very much the potential we could leverage our QE financed cash to generate more income as interest rates rise.........a 'nice' problem to have.

[JustChris]

Starting to sound like a Cornish property investor.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

Eveyone knew this though, but there is no denying QE has enabled a whole generation of people (I included my self in this) to get into property that is far above our income levels at a much younger age. We must be youngest family on the street by 2 decades if not more.

Without QE and low interest rates our current house was way beyond our affordability, I was always aware of the Interest rate rise 'risk', hence getting 5 years and more recently 10 year fixed rates in. Essentially our current 'final' family home will have been paid for by a 2% APR loan over 15 years, with inflation running at a higher rate for most of those years.......so in effect inflation is eroding our mortgage debt, whilst low APR has given access to far more property assessts I could have dreamed of at 35!!!

The party is now clearly coming to an end, but we've been lucky enough to have our pie and eat it. The 'deillma' now for me is our building works hasn't started yet, so we are very cash rich at present, and given every market crash offers the chance to 'invest' there is very much the potential we could leverage our QE financed cash to generate more income as interest rates rise.........a 'nice' problem to have.

when they price long term fixed rates, the markets predict what they think will happen. They may get it a bit wrong but if you think you will have 5 years of your fixed rate being less than inflation then I think its good you work for the NHS not a bank....

I'm the oldest on my street by a chunk and the average if probably not much older than you. I suspect you just live in a part of the world where people are less comfortable taking on big debt for properties....

Being cash rich at the moment is also potentially a bad thing as the purchasing power of your cash is declining every day unless its earning 10% plus interest.. or put another way, you have borrowed at 2%, have nothing to do with it but its losing value at 10% and earning say 1%... I make that an 11% loss per annum