[TimMcC]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

I have a 1 day 320 miles round trip coming up for work in mid Feb. Its going to be 5-6hrs of driving in one day, all during rush hour + a decent day of work in the middle.

The Tesla will 100% need to charge at least once, maybe twice depending on rain/wind etc. The Lexus hybrid will be stay in lane 3 and make as quick progress as possible traffic laws/conditions permitting.

Fuel cost for the trip will be claimed back from work, which option would you choose? EV that needs charging or ICE that just let's you get on with a work day??

For holidays and family trips its a different matter, time is much more fluid. But work is work, turning up late/stressed to rare face to face meeting with important partners just makes you look unprofessional.

If it was me, I'd drive straight there. Then I'd top up as needed to get home. 320 miles is no big deal in the I-Pace.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by JD6

Attention gangzoom your account appears to have been hacked by someone who doesn't believe that EVs are the answer to everything

I was wondering how to reply to this rather unexpected post. You nailed it!

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by EvilDrPorkChop

The way I see it, unless you want to go electric for environmental reasons or need to drastically save costs (Such as tax) then stick with ICE. If you can afford to put petrol in, then why not? Let's face it, most of us on here are not living on a breadline and need to drastically cut costs. Yes it might cost you more, but for the inconvenience of recharging when you really need the range/distance it i'd rather pay the extra in fuel costs over the year. Time is precious.

I'm also not convinced someone buying it as a personal car, over a long term, is really saving that much money. On a lease as a company car, you can probably make the figures work well at the minute - until the Tax man changes his mind.

Looking at it as a personal car :

I do ~12000 miles per annum. The 520d does ~45mpg average (10 miles per litre, to mix units)
Current diesel prices near me are ~170ppl. So that 10 miles per litre is 17p per mile
That means a fuel cost of £2040 per annum. Call it £2k

If that's an EV - something like a ID.3 or an MG5 estate, doing 4 miles/kWh average over the year
Home charging at the price cap rate of 35p/kWh, that means a cost of ~8.7p per mile on 'fuel'. So that pulls the 'fuel' cost down to £1050 per annum.
However, we've got solar panels and a battery too. So that means some of our 'fuel' we'd be able to generate ourselves. Let's say 25% of that (probably be more, but let's be conservative with the savings.

So now the 'fuel' cost is £750-ish per annum.

So that's a saving of £1000-1250 per annum. Or £80-100 a month

Yes, that doesn't allow for any 'premium' charging rates for if travelling away. But 95%+ of my motoring is pretty local (within 50 miles of home). For the 2-3 times a year where we're away, we'll still have the wife's car, which is ICE (she does considerably more mileage than me, occasionally up to 300 miles a day)
Even then, she'd be able to use the EV for local trips on the weekends, etc. Whilst that would up the EV mileage, it'd also reduce the fuel costs even further.

As to the 'time is precious' argument : all it is requiring is a bit of effort and being bothered to plug in the car in the evening twice a week and unplug it in the morning - oh, and you don't have to go to the petrol station every 2 weeks.

So call it 1 minute to get the cable out of the boot and plug it in, 1 minute to unplug it and put the cable away. Done twice a week, that's 4 minutes per week, 8 minutes per fortnight. Or once per fortnight waiting at the petrol station for a pump to be free, standing filling the car up with fuel, going in to pay, waiting in the queue to pay for your fuel ... 15-20 minutes, potentially ?

You're actually SAVING time (only 5-10 minutes a fortnight, but as you said, time is precious, right ?). And over £1000 per annum as well !

It's not something that is going to work for everyone. But I'll bet that it would work for a lot of people here that are 2 car households.

Oh, in the interest of honesty and complete openness, there is an additional EV cost up front : the charging station. About £1000 supplied and fitted

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Originally Posted by robbiep

Looking at it as a personal car :

I do ~12000 miles per annum. The 520d does ~45mpg average (10 miles per litre, to mix units)
Current diesel prices near me are ~170ppl. So that 10 miles per litre is 17p per mile
That means a fuel cost of £2040 per annum. Call it £2k

If that's an EV - something like a ID.3 or an MG5 estate, doing 4 miles/kWh average over the year
Home charging at the price cap rate of 35p/kWh, that means a cost of ~8.7p per mile on 'fuel'. So that pulls the 'fuel' cost down to £1050 per annum.
However, we've got solar panels and a battery too. So that means some of our 'fuel' we'd be able to generate ourselves. Let's say 25% of that (probably be more, but let's be conservative with the savings.

So now the 'fuel' cost is £750-ish per annum.

So that's a saving of £1000-1250 per annum. Or £80-100 a month

Yes, that doesn't allow for any 'premium' charging rates for if travelling away. But 95%+ of my motoring is pretty local (within 50 miles of home). For the 2-3 times a year where we're away, we'll still have the wife's car, which is ICE (she does considerably more mileage than me, occasionally up to 300 miles a day)
Even then, she'd be able to use the EV for local trips on the weekends, etc. Whilst that would up the EV mileage, it'd also reduce the fuel costs even further.

As to the 'time is precious' argument : all it is requiring is a bit of effort and being bothered to plug in the car in the evening twice a week and unplug it in the morning - oh, and you don't have to go to the petrol station every 2 weeks.

So call it 1 minute to get the cable out of the boot and plug it in, 1 minute to unplug it and put the cable away. Done twice a week, that's 4 minutes per week, 8 minutes per fortnight. Or once per fortnight waiting at the petrol station for a pump to be free, standing filling the car up with fuel, going in to pay, waiting in the queue to pay for your fuel ... 15-20 minutes, potentially ?

You're actually SAVING time (only 5-10 minutes a fortnight, but as you said, time is precious, right ?). And over £1000 per annum as well !

It's not something that is going to work for everyone. But I'll bet that it would work for a lot of people here that are 2 car households.

Oh, in the interest of honesty and complete openness, there is an additional EV cost up front : the charging station. About £1000 supplied and fitted

You've kind of hit the nail on the head there. Save a £1000/1250 per year for the inconvenience, maybe £2k if you were pushing it. The solar panels/battery are kind of irrelevant to a degree as you've forked out for them too. Most users aren't going to have them. So in the grand scheme of things, it really isn't that much saving to warrant to go EV IMO. If you've got a ICE car and a EV great, best of both worlds.

Plus you haven't factored in the cost of the EV vs. a Petrol/Diesel model, plus depreciation. As I said in my original post, as a personal car I can't see how it's beneficial. You can make the numbers work a lot better as a Company car.

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

I have a 1 day 320 miles round trip coming up for work in mid Feb. Its going to be 5-6hrs of driving in one day, all during rush hour + a decent day of work in the middle.

The Tesla will 100% need to charge at least once, maybe twice depending on rain/wind etc. The Lexus hybrid will be stay in lane 3 and make as quick progress as possible traffic laws/conditions permitting.

Fuel cost for the trip will be claimed back from work, which option would you choose? EV that needs charging or ICE that just let's you get on with a work day??

For holidays and family trips its a different matter, time is much more fluid. But work is work, turning up late/stressed to rare face to face meeting with important partners just makes you look unprofessional.

Kind of my point. Take the money factor out the equation and I think most people would chose ICE.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by EvilDrPorkChop

You've kind of hit the nail on the head there. Save a £1000/1250 per year for the inconvenience, maybe £2k if you were pushing it. The solar panels/battery are kind of irrelevant to a degree as you've forked out for them too. Most users aren't going to have them. So in the grand scheme of things, it really isn't that much saving to warrant to go EV IMO. If you've got a ICE car and a EV great, best of both worlds.

Plus you haven't factored in the cost of the EV vs. a Petrol/Diesel model, plus depreciation. As I said in my original post, as a personal car I can't see how it's beneficial. You can make the numbers work a lot better as a Company car.

The inconvenience label is on the wrong horse. I’ve not stepped on a windswept forecourt once in four months, I’ve not varied or made perhaps 8-12 journeys to accommodate those interludes. I’d not realised how much of a freedom it is to fill up at home.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by EvilDrPorkChop

Kind of my point. Take the money factor out the equation and I think most people would chose ICE.

Money wasn’t the factor in my choice to go EV. The money saving options were both SUVs, one petrol-hybrid and one PHEV. Both significantly cheaper than the EV. But I decided to go EV.

[TimMcC]

Originally Posted by EvilDrPorkChop

Kind of my point. Take the money factor out the equation and I think most people would chose ICE.

Money wasn't a factor for us.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by EvilDrPorkChop

You've kind of hit the nail on the head there. Save a £1000/1250 per year for the inconvenience, maybe £2k if you were pushing it. The solar panels/battery are kind of irrelevant to a degree as you've forked out for them too. Most users aren't going to have them. So in the grand scheme of things, it really isn't that much saving to warrant to go EV IMO. If you've got a ICE car and a EV great, best of both worlds.

Plus you haven't factored in the cost of the EV vs. a Petrol/Diesel model, plus depreciation. As I said in my original post, as a personal car I can't see how it's beneficial. You can make the numbers work a lot better as a Company car.

Where is the inconvenience for the EV when charging at home ? It's MORE convenient than going to the petrol station, and as you pointed out, time is precious !

Monday morning : unplug car (1 minute)
Monday to Wednesday : Drive to work, drive home, park car
Wednesday when you get home : Plug car in (1 minute)
Thursday morning : Unplug car (1 minute).
Thursday and Friday : drive to work and home
Weekend : charge if needed. If not, then plug in on Sunday evening (1 minute)
Monday morning : unplug car (1 minute) Repeat as per previous week.

I don't see where the inconvenience is, when compared to going to a petrol station every week or 2, and waiting for a pump to be free, then standing in the cold for 10 minutes while you fill up, then queueing up to pay ?

The solar panels/battery aren't irrelevant, as they are even more free 'fuel' - but this time for the car, rather than just the house.
They are already providing a ROI of about 8%, this is going to turn it into more like 12% as we'll be exporting less 'surplus' energy at at the miserly price of 5.5p/kWh, and making use of it instead (each 5.5p we would have earned on the SEG rate that we can use will give about 4 miles of range, which is turning that 5.5p into something like 70p equivalent of diesel)

As I say, they aren't for everyone. They certainly don't work for everyone. But they do work for a lot of people, in a lot of circumstances. Especially for those that do shorter journeys, say anything less than 100 miles a day.
For us, it works out because we can charge at home, and we need to run 2 cars - one can certainly be EV

[AyrshireColin]

Originally Posted by robbiep

I don't see where the inconvenience is, when compared to going to a petrol station every week or 2, and waiting for a pump to be free, then standing in the cold for 10 minutes while you fill up, then queueing up to pay ?

No wonder there’s a wait for a pump if it takes 10 minutes to fill a tank!

Lots of driving a narrative - both for and against EV - in this thread.

I know there are a few people talking about the inconvenience of filling up, by way of going out of your way. I live in a town of 46,500 people, can count 9 petrol stations (3 of which I drive by daily on my way out of the town to work) and can honestly say there’s never a wait anywhere…I don’t know if this is not normal at all, but filling up the car isn’t even any kind of ‘inconvenience’ that I give a passing thought to.

I fully understand how a 10 minute trip/detour would be a pain in the ass to put fuel in a car.

[Ennoch]

This is the argument that a lot of people don't see when talking about how great electric cars are. If you rarely tickle the max range, drive in non-rural areas and then are able to charge at home then it's a strong argument. None of these electric cars are really suited to rural living, longer journeys off the motorway network, or even in adverse conditions (no better than an AWD 3 series in reality). My house doesn't have the ability to charge a car as I don't have a driveway, and at my parents while there's a driveway there's currently insufficient network capability/capacity to deal with a fast charger of any sort - the local petrol pump tried to get one installed and got turned down for this reason. If you're travelling during the day and can stop at a fast charger then great, but if you are often travelling very early morning or very late at night in rural areas with no ability to charge while it's parked up then you have an issue and it can turn a late night into an unpleasantly late night. Tomorrow night I'll be driving 260 miles in one hit, no stops and probably going as quick as I can despite fairly inclement weather forecast. In the BMW it means I get in at one house and get out at the other house somewhere between 3h30-4hrs later. And of course that is assuming no weather related delays. In an electric car that then becomes a problem if you're stuck somewhere and need to keep the heating etc on, or need to divert, which when the range is arguably only just enough to do the journey in perfect conditions means you're going to end up with issues. Even if you're stuck somewhere overnight, which I have seen happen on the A9, you just leave the Diesel engine running and you'll stay nice and warm and it'll have used bugger all fuel by the morning, leaving you plenty to get on with your journey. As to the inconvenience of filling up, really? I fill up when I'm passing somewhere convenient and I think the most you queue is a couple of minutes if you've timed it badly, and then what, a couple of minutes to fill up having used pay at the pump? How many chargers would be required to replace the current filling capacity within the network? A lot. Even if most people had home chargers.

I get that for some people electric cars are truly fantastic, but for a lot of us they're not, and it's quite funny how many seem to think that because a car works for them it's going to work for everyone. Do I need a big 4x4 for most of my driving? No, probably 90% of it doesn't, but the 10% is really quite important and a key requirement (more so than I thought when I went from SUV back to estate). Throw in an EV and I suspect that in terms of journeys it would probably cover 75% without problem, but in terms of mileage (discounting the home charging issue) it would be closer to 75% of the mileage would have problems. Where I see EV's being at their best is in cities where emissions at point of use is the biggest problem, and if councils actually pushed these ULEZ areas for electric only I'd actually concede that in terms of air quality they'd have a strong argument.

Electric vehicles are not the panacea for a vast portion of the population, they're a great option for a small number (in the overall scheme of things) of people who have the money to buy them and install chargers etc, and who don't do stupid mileages in strange places. Will they ever get to the point where I'd have to choose one? I hope not. Hydrogen is really the only suitable long term answer because it doesn't use up vital rare earth metals, of which there's not enough to cover the number of cars required to replace all ICE units anyway.

[Nibbles]

I think one of the factors that may drive more adoption is the bi-directional power which VW and Volvo have in their new EV’s. Assuming the energy companies don’t take an age to jump on this it starts to become a more compelling purchase if you could charge your EV overnight cheaply and then use 30kwh of the 77kwh battery to power your house for the day or give it back to the grid (a bit like the octopus tesla incoming rate where it’s 24p from the grid and you get 24p back when you use your battery to help the grid) that would be great. If you could pull 20-25kwh from your car with the current overnight to normal tariff difference you’d save a couple of thousand a year.
Tesla are normally the first to do this sort of thing but they’d rather you bought 30kwh in powerwalls for the price of a model y than use some of the battery already in it.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by robbiep

I don't see where the inconvenience is, when compared to going to a petrol station every week or 2, and waiting for a pump to be free, then standing in the cold for 10 minutes while you fill up, then queueing up to pay ?

The solar panels/battery aren't irrelevant, as they are even more free 'fuel' - but this time for the car, rather than just the house.
They are already providing a ROI of about 8%, this is going to turn it into more like 12% as we'll be exporting less 'surplus' energy at at the miserly price of 5.5p/kWh, and making use of it instead (each 5.5p we would have earned on the SEG rate that we can use will give about 4 miles of range, which is turning that 5.5p into something like 70p equivalent of diesel)

I agree with the general thrust of your argument but what car takes 10 minutes to fill-up at a petrol of diesel pump? In practice it's less than half that even for vehicles with a relatively large tank!

As for solar panels and battery storage, in principle I agree but in practice how many people have the roof space for it to work effectively and, more to the point, the money to afford the installation in the first place? These sort of set-ups are only going to work for a relatively small minority of people IMO - great if you're one of them but in my view it's not a viable solution for the majority.

[MashinBenzin]

All about personal circumstance and I wouldn’t recommend EV to anyone that can’t charge at home and does more than 100 miles a week (so a city based occasional driver may still be fine). And for Ennoch with regular long jaunts in Scotland, probably not either. Most of our population is down south though with a better concentration of chargers and, importantly, lower daily and annual mileages.

I pass a fuel station a bare minimum of four times a day, to and from school pickup and drop off. Was it still a ballache to fill up? You bet it was. Pass 1, never ever with time in hand to stop with my daughter in the car. Pass 2, I’ve got a meeting in 15-30 minutes and I want to get a handle on emails missed whilst on school run. Pass 3, usually squeezed in between a meeting at home and a meeting parked up. Pass 4, need to get daughter home to crack on with bathtime and dinner. Pass 3 was usually my best bet but always another rushed job. At weekends, usually don’t wish to add to a journey that will inevitably have started late due to getting two kids ready.

Even with a 90 litre tank I was usually running down to fumes because filling up was a hassle that was difficult to fit in. As the EV-dispassionate amongst us are prone to say, it involved planning.

Plugging in at home is a revelation, planning and stress-free, it is incomparably less hassle than having an ICE car for the life that I live.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by AyrshireColin

No wonder there’s a wait for a pump if it takes 10 minutes to fill a tank!

Lots of driving a narrative - both for and against EV - in this thread.

I know there are a few people talking about the inconvenience of filling up, by way of going out of your way. I live in a town of 46,500 people, can count 9 petrol stations (3 of which I drive by daily on my way out of the town to work) and can honestly say there’s never a wait anywhere…I don’t know if this is not normal at all, but filling up the car isn’t even any kind of ‘inconvenience’ that I give a passing thought to.

I fully understand how a 10 minute trip/detour would be a pain in the ass to put fuel in a car.

whereas when I visit my Mum there is nowhere that sells unleaded so its a 5 mile round trip out of my way to get some on my way home (or motorway service prices) or a special trip when I am here..... whereas my car will charge as much as I need whilst I nip to supermarket and do other jobs nearby.

As has been said many times, its horses for courses.

I didnt pick my EV to save money (is swapping a car really a way to save money when there are dealer margins involved...) but because I wanted to try it, I was bored with look at me exhausts, and I wanted a Jag... I'm very happy so far.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Nibbles

I think one of the factors that may drive more adoption is the bi-directional power which VW and Volvo have in their new EV’s. Assuming the energy companies don’t take an age to jump on this it starts to become a more compelling purchase if you could charge your EV overnight cheaply and then use 30kwh of the 77kwh battery to power your house for the day or give it back to the grid (a bit like the octopus tesla incoming rate where it’s 24p from the grid and you get 24p back when you use your battery to help the grid) that would be great. If you could pull 20-25kwh from your car with the current overnight to normal tariff difference you’d save a couple of thousand a year.
Tesla are normally the first to do this sort of thing but they’d rather you bought 30kwh in powerwalls for the price of a model y than use some of the battery already in it.

I know technology can help answer some of the issues, but isn't it getting too complex, when we require all these "inefficient" solutions? We have to add in the charging and conversion losses. We need much simpler solutions, or if we are not careful, we are adding much more energy consumption when we are trying to reduce usage.

BTW, I can envisage the unprepared EV user 'supplying the grid' as they decide they need the vehicle and have little range in the battery.

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by Ennoch

This is the argument that a lot of people don't see when talking about how great electric cars are. If you rarely tickle the max range, drive in non-rural areas and then are able to charge at home then it's a strong argument. None of these electric cars are really suited to rural living, longer journeys off the motorway network, or even in adverse conditions (no better than an AWD 3 series in reality). My house doesn't have the ability to charge a car as I don't have a driveway, and at my parents while there's a driveway there's currently insufficient network capability/capacity to deal with a fast charger of any sort - the local petrol pump tried to get one installed and got turned down for this reason. If you're travelling during the day and can stop at a fast charger then great, but if you are often travelling very early morning or very late at night in rural areas with no ability to charge while it's parked up then you have an issue and it can turn a late night into an unpleasantly late night. Tomorrow night I'll be driving 260 miles in one hit, no stops and probably going as quick as I can despite fairly inclement weather forecast. In the BMW it means I get in at one house and get out at the other house somewhere between 3h30-4hrs later. And of course that is assuming no weather related delays. In an electric car that then becomes a problem if you're stuck somewhere and need to keep the heating etc on, or need to divert, which when the range is arguably only just enough to do the journey in perfect conditions means you're going to end up with issues. Even if you're stuck somewhere overnight, which I have seen happen on the A9, you just leave the Diesel engine running and you'll stay nice and warm and it'll have used bugger all fuel by the morning, leaving you plenty to get on with your journey. As to the inconvenience of filling up, really? I fill up when I'm passing somewhere convenient and I think the most you queue is a couple of minutes if you've timed it badly, and then what, a couple of minutes to fill up having used pay at the pump? How many chargers would be required to replace the current filling capacity within the network? A lot. Even if most people had home chargers.

I get that for some people electric cars are truly fantastic, but for a lot of us they're not, and it's quite funny how many seem to think that because a car works for them it's going to work for everyone. Do I need a big 4x4 for most of my driving? No, probably 90% of it doesn't, but the 10% is really quite important and a key requirement (more so than I thought when I went from SUV back to estate). Throw in an EV and I suspect that in terms of journeys it would probably cover 75% without problem, but in terms of mileage (discounting the home charging issue) it would be closer to 75% of the mileage would have problems. Where I see EV's being at their best is in cities where emissions at point of use is the biggest problem, and if councils actually pushed these ULEZ areas for electric only I'd actually concede that in terms of air quality they'd have a strong argument.

Electric vehicles are not the panacea for a vast portion of the population, they're a great option for a small number (in the overall scheme of things) of people who have the money to buy them and install chargers etc, and who don't do stupid mileages in strange places. Will they ever get to the point where I'd have to choose one? I hope not. Hydrogen is really the only suitable long term answer because it doesn't use up vital rare earth metals, of which there's not enough to cover the number of cars required to replace all ICE units anyway.

I think this sums up EVs very succinctly.

There is no doubting they work for some but the majority are going to struggle, whether it be having no offstreet parking, unable to afford to get into an EV in the first place, or their regular journey profile not being suitable.

For those that toddle about on local journeys and are reasonably well off like most on here they seem ideal. I dont buy into ease of charging at home over filling the car up at the local gas station though, I cant remember the last time I queued up and if it takes you 10 minutes to fill your car then something is very wrong.

What I have noticed a couple of times on here is 'Range Anxiety' being mentioned, it just isnt something I have ever come across in an IC car. To have to plan via an app etc your route if you are doing a long distance would be a major problem for a technophobe like me........... and for many others I expect.

Something I didnt realise (if the quoted poster is correct) is that there is not enough rare metals to replace the current IC stock with EVs....... how is that going to pan out? As I said in a previous post motoring is likely to become the reserve of the affluent, maybe out of reach of the £70k to £100K pa earners on here....... you can bet your bottom dollar if the rare metals are running out they are going to become prohibitively expensive.

The more I delve into EVs the more convinced I am it is not the answer for the masses in this country and certainly not for countries like India so from a 'Green' perspective I suspect like many other initiatives it will end up being a damp squib.

[Nibbles]

Originally Posted by Sennen

What I have noticed a couple of times on here is 'Range Anxiety' being mentioned, it just isnt something I have ever come across in an IC car..

Every time I got in my wife's car and forgot to look at the petrol gauge before setting off only to see it on empty showing 0 miles of fuel left and being at least 10 miles from a petrol station. Having it now charged by being plugged in at home has removed that dread.

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by Nibbles

Every time I got in my wife's car and forgot to look at the petrol gauge before setting off only to see it on empty showing 0 miles of fuel left and being at least 10 miles from a petrol station. Having it now charged by being plugged in at home has removed that dread.

Maybe it is a new wife you need not a new EV

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Nibbles

Every time I got in my wife's car and forgot to look at the petrol gauge before setting off only to see it on empty showing 0 miles of fuel left and being at least 10 miles from a petrol station. Having it now charged by being plugged in at home has removed that dread.

when I was doing 35k to 40k miles a year, filling up was a far too regular occurrence, not for the cost but the inconvenience. So I often had range anxiety as I would always be trying to eek out another journey twixt home and work (who wants to pay motorway prices!) when it wasnt really sensible.... a few memories of being on next to zero miles left and 4 or 5 miles left to do on the motorway!

Charging at home and lower mileage means that is mainly a thing of the past although I do find myself forgetting that the Mini needs fuel - ran it down to 3 miles remaining last time!

[Nibbles]

Originally Posted by Sennen

Maybe it is a new wife you need not a new EV

That would cost a lot more than a new EV!!!

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

when I was doing 35k to 40k miles a year, filling up was a far too regular occurrence, not for the cost but the inconvenience. So I often had range anxiety as I would always be trying to eek out another journey twixt home and work (who wants to pay motorway prices!) when it wasnt really sensible.... a few memories of being on next to zero miles left and 4 or 5 miles left to do on the motorway!

I know that feeling well, as the trip from Home to Home counties is more than I can do on one tank of fuel comfortably, so we now always stop at the Tesco in Carlisle. It's a quarter mile from the M6 junction so no more hassle than a service station, but normal prices. Prior to that it was sometimes a bit of a stress working out a balance of speed v consumption to make it where you wanted.

My concern is that with a BEV I'd have the same, except every 200 miles not 400 miles.

Anyway, I think everyone is arguing the same thing. EVs suit some usage profiles and personal preferences, and less so others. Collectively we are genuises!