[dereksM3]

Originally Posted by High Flier

The pre-MPPSK stage 1 is the Dinan Stage 1 not designed for use with a MPPSK. What you refer to as the Elite is listed on Dinan's website as the Stage 1 (MPPSK), which I thought was the subject of this thread. (By the way, the word "Elite" isn't found anywhere on Dinan's website.) Not sure how either of these could be confused with the SPORT.

The reason I asked this question was because some already have the Stage 1 installed and were thinking of getting the MPPSK installed. It sounds like they will need a completely new Stage 1 (MPPSK).


"Do 1 or the other," is this with regards to the Stage 1 OR the MPPSK? Which configuration were you referring to that provides "relatively minimal gains"?

When he mentions "Do 1 or the other" he means either people do the MPPSK or they purchase the Dinan STG1. I highly doubt people that purchase the Dinan STG1 come back to spend another $3k on the MPPSK when that adds minimal gains to the Dinan STG1.

If you look at the difference in from MPPSK + Dinan STG1 to just having the STG1 the power difference is almost negligible. You would be better off just buying the MPE + Dinan STG1 and have as much or more power than the MPPSK and still have the sound.

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by High Flier

The pre-MPPSK stage 1 is the Dinan Stage 1 not designed for use with a MPPSK. What you refer to as the Elite is listed on Dinan's website as the Stage 1 (MPPSK), which I thought was the subject of this thread. (By the way, the word "Elite" isn't found anywhere on Dinan's website.) Not sure how either of these could be confused with the SPORT.

The reason I asked this question was because some already have the Stage 1 installed and were thinking of getting the MPPSK installed. It sounds like they will need a completely new Stage 1 (MPPSK).


"Do 1 or the other," is this with regards to the Stage 1 OR the MPPSK? Which configuration were you referring to that provides "relatively minimal gains"?

All warrantied tunes are considered ELITE (more internal reference that we have adopted in popular reference to distinguish from the non-warrantied SPORT). However it is technically referenced in the comparison page -- https://www.dinancars.com/the-evolution-of-power/. Both the Stage 1 kits (MPPSK and Non-MPPSK) are "ELITE" units. Just different programming accounting for the difference in stock baselines.

Regardless, would require a new tune altogether if the user had the non-MPPSK tune and then put on the MPPSK package wanting the Dinan MPPSK tune at that time. Comes down to the software structure and how everything is registered for warranty and what not. Its an extensive process to undergo that can't be done in the field as for IP reasons we do not want to open up ourselves to issues with warranty at the dealer/retail level where we have no direct control (can be cheated and manipulated if we were to open it up to the field). There are exceptions to this but they are rare and at the discretion of the warranty department since it falls under their domain. Best advice I can give is... if you have any desire for MPPSK do that before upgrading to the Dinan tune. Treat it as stepping stones where MPPSK is the first step since it has the smallest gains and if you want more, then move up to Dinan or whomever.

"Relatively minimal gains" would be in reference to the tune going from the non-MPPSK to the MPPSK variant which equates to ~10 HP, ~20 TRQ. For the cost of MPPSK that is some expensive power. Given, some folks may really like the sound of the M exhaust so it still may be worth it to them but I would argue you can get similar sound for much less cost. Of course this is all just my opinion that I am spouting as well.

[Pr3dict]

Im confused.... I have MPPSK and I have Dinan elite stage 1... Are you basically saying that the performance gains is not worth the $1,400 I spent haha?

[FeelinBlessed]

Originally Posted by Pr3dict

Im confused.... I have MPPSK and I have Dinan elite stage 1... Are you basically saying that the performance gains is not worth the $1,400 I spent haha?

10/20 gains? $1400... really hope that's not the case

[Araemo]

Originally Posted by FeelinBlessed

10/20 gains? $1400... really hope that's not the case

I'd like to see more dynos. For some reason, the MPPSK they tested is producing much less power than the ones people have independently tested. And then when they added stage 1 to it, it only gets ~10HP more than stage 1 for non-MPPSK they tested. But from what I understand, the dyno results in this thread are from a single car? It might be that car just wasn't a good example.

[riskmaker76]

At least from the JB4 arena (those who are logging but JB4 boost off) MPPSK is doing a fantastic job of raising boost - especially on 93 octane. Peaks of 21 psi have been seen not including improved timing across the range. After applying Map 1 which is a 93 octane map, boost does not rise more than 1 to 2 PSI on average - with peaks actually lower. Throttle closures seem to be less but timing isn't as linear. The point of the post is 1 to 2 PSI equates to about 10 - 20 HP. More than that the DME lowers boost target even further... Its just something we cant fight against as BMW put in some artificial ceiling... Now add WMI and your adding over an additional 50hp.

No Dynos yet with those who have MPPSK and JB4 - Also have yet to see a "Clean" Dyno of a Dinan Elite and MPPSK. But I bet 10 - 20 hp is where its at with MPPSK... Yes its the most expensive of all options...

Regarding cost

MPPSK if you can get a good deal and have it port installed is
2800 (i got it at cost) - If you lease you will only pay roughly 61% of that = $1708 port installed (no cost to install).

$1708

Dinan Exhaust by itself with mid pipe > 1900
Aprokovik full exhaust > 2200
Dinan Mid Pipe with MPE > 1600

MPPSK in fact for those who lease is a bargain if your planning on getting just aftermarket exhaust - the tune is the bonus as I see.

The question is Dinan Elite / JB4 - well thats for you to answer... In the end your paying for what ever performance boost (albeit small) and features the unit provides. Question the value each unit provides and make that determination if its worth your added $$ over your original MPPSK expense.

[BLACK HAWK DOWN]

Dinan Elite (stage 1) with non MPPSK or MPPSK only. I can't see the benefit of adding the Dinan to the MPPSK performance vs money wise. At least not until some progress is made with cracking the factory DME.

[monkiboy]

Originally Posted by toybm

Dinan Elite (stage 1) with non MPPSK or MPPSK only. I can't see the benefit of adding the Dinan to the MPPSK performance vs money wise. At least not until some progress is made with cracking the factory DME.

I guess I will know soon enough and happy to provide the data I'm able to obtain.

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by Pr3dict

Im confused.... I have MPPSK and I have Dinan elite stage 1... Are you basically saying that the performance gains is not worth the $1,400 I spent haha?

No, you get some decent gains going that way. But I am assuming you had MPPSK prior to getting the Dinan tune.

Originally Posted by FeelinBlessed

10/20 gains? $1400... really hope that's not the case

Those minimal gains are when you go from the Dinan tune and THEN add MPPSK on top of it. You are paying essentially ~$2k (rounding to a clean number) for 10HP/20TRQ over just doing the Dinan tune to start. The order of upgrades makes the cost/benefit horrible to me in this scenario.

Originally Posted by riskmaker76

At least from the JB4 arena (those who are logging but JB4 boost off) MPPSK is doing a fantastic job of raising boost - especially on 93 octane. Peaks of 21 psi have been seen not including improved timing across the range. After applying Map 1 which is a 93 octane map, boost does not rise more than 1 to 2 PSI on average - with peaks actually lower. Throttle closures seem to be less but timing isn't as linear. The point of the post is 1 to 2 PSI equates to about 10 - 20 HP. More than that the DME lowers boost target even further... Its just something we cant fight against as BMW put in some artificial ceiling... Now add WMI and your adding over an additional 50hp.

No Dynos yet with those who have MPPSK and JB4 - Also have yet to see a "Clean" Dyno of a Dinan Elite and MPPSK. But I bet 10 - 20 hp is where its at with MPPSK... Yes its the most expensive of all options...

Regarding cost

MPPSK if you can get a good deal and have it port installed is
2800 (i got it at cost) - If you lease you will only pay roughly 61% of that = $1708 port installed (no cost to install).

$1708

Dinan Exhaust by itself with mid pipe > 1900
Aprokovik full exhaust > 2200
Dinan Mid Pipe with MPE > 1600

MPPSK in fact for those who lease is a bargain if your planning on getting just aftermarket exhaust - the tune is the bonus as I see.

The question is Dinan Elite / JB4 - well thats for you to answer... In the end your paying for what ever performance boost (albeit small) and features the unit provides. Question the value each unit provides and make that determination if its worth your added $$ over your original MPPSK expense.

This. I was just too lazy to type it out in detail. Thank you riskmaker.

[monkiboy]

I have a 2017 340xi w/ MPPSK and dinan elite MPPSK piggyback en route.

I wanted to be able to have a true delta of performance gains between stock MPPSK map fully adjusted (not freshly swapped) and with the dinan elite MPPSK piggyback installed and fully adjusted (not freshly swapped to) so am having a few pulls done today on a dyno to get the plots and see performance of the "before".

mppsk piggyback from dinan should arrive next thursday or so. i'll install, put a couple hundred miles under different loads and driving conditions, which I think should be plenty, then do another dyno session.

Dinan_Engineering - is this last statement accurate for sufficient time to allow the piggyback to achieve it's maximum effect for the "after" dyno session?

if anyone has any suggestions on other manners in which to better conduct this analysis, let me know. i'll try to schedule with similar weather each dyno day. all this will be on pump 93 gas which is what I commonly use for this car.

it seems the data is sparse out there so hopefully it'll benefit the community as well doing it this way even though it's twice as expensive and time-consuming. should be fun to see.

[Big Nodge]

As has been the case since it was released, the MPPSK only makes sense if you value the exhaust. I like riskmaker's analysis, though to be totally fair you'd want to include some sort of resale value for the aftermarket exhaust alternatives in your comparison. Same concept as the residual on the lease, though you probably want to assume something a bit lower to reflect the uncertainty.

As far as Dinan Elite on top of MPPSK, the deltas actually look good for they money, to me at least. JB4 is having mixed results it seems with MPPSK, and of course you get the warranty. Plus, in my experience aftermarket tunes/piggybacks tend to hit a little harder than OEM tunes, makes the car feel a little faster in a placebo sense. Though again, this only makes sense if you value the MPPSK for the exhaust, otherwise go straight Dinan or JB4.

So I'm still interested, but not in a rush and waiting to see more results from the community.

[Araemo]

Originally Posted by monkiboy

I wanted to be able to have a true delta of performance gains between stock MPPSK map fully adjusted (not freshly swapped) and with the dinan elite MPPSK piggyback installed and fully adjusted (not freshly swapped to) so am having a few pulls done today on a dyno to get the plots and see performance of the "before".

Can Dinan comment on how much 'adjustment' happens with these DMEs/piggybacks? Every time I've gone down the rabbit hole of trying to learn what 'adaptations' or 'adjustments' the car makes to new hardware/new driver, I've found a convincing debunking. I understand a shakedown period to make sure everything was installed right and not malfunctioning, but I don't know if there's any adjusting/adaptation/learning/etc. in the stock ECU/DME, beyond direct 'adjusting for current conditions' which should be equal if conditions are equal.

[Pr3dict]

I started with MPPSK from the factory and after 700 miles I put the Dinan stage 1 on. I'm at 1300 miles now and will be doing a 700 mile road trip this weekend. Is that enough time for everything to settle?

To be honest I am trying to squeeze every last bit of power out of this thing and it seems that I've hit a ceiling also haha. I wish there was more performance mods out for an engine/car that's been out for over 2 years.

[monkiboy]

posted the dyno from my "base" run from today in my build thread here:
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...7#post21777197

i'll post up both plots after dinan elite MPPSK piggyback installed for a bit

[elicausi]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

All warrantied tunes are considered ELITE (more internal reference that we have adopted in popular reference to distinguish from the non-warrantied SPORT). However it is technically referenced in the comparison page -- https://www.dinancars.com/the-evolution-of-power/. Both the Stage 1 kits (MPPSK and Non-MPPSK) are "ELITE" units. Just different programming accounting for the difference in stock baselines.

Regardless, would require a new tune altogether if the user had the non-MPPSK tune and then put on the MPPSK package wanting the Dinan MPPSK tune at that time. Comes down to the software structure and how everything is registered for warranty and what not. Its an extensive process to undergo that can't be done in the field as for IP reasons we do not want to open up ourselves to issues with warranty at the dealer/retail level where we have no direct control (can be cheated and manipulated if we were to open it up to the field). There are exceptions to this but they are rare and at the discretion of the warranty department since it falls under their domain. Best advice I can give is... if you have any desire for MPPSK do that before upgrading to the Dinan tune. Treat it as stepping stones where MPPSK is the first step since it has the smallest gains and if you want more, then move up to Dinan or whomever.

"Relatively minimal gains" would be in reference to the tune going from the non-MPPSK to the MPPSK variant which equates to ~10 HP, ~20 TRQ. For the cost of MPPSK that is some expensive power. Given, some folks may really like the sound of the M exhaust so it still may be worth it to them but I would argue you can get similar sound for much less cost. Of course this is all just my opinion that I am spouting as well.

So you're saying that MPPSK adds ~ 10HP to stock or are you saying that the Dinan MPPSK variant adds ~10HP over the Dinan non-MPPSK variant?

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by elicausi

So you're saying that MPPSK adds ~ 10HP to stock or are you saying that the Dinan MPPSK variant adds ~10HP over the Dinan non-MPPSK variant?

The latter.

[Pr3dict]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

The latter.

But is that cumulative. What I mean is, the 10HP addition BECAUSE there is MPPSK installed? In other words. If you go from MPPSK with no dinan tune as a baseline and you put the dinan tune on are you getting a net +10HP or something else?

[insanecoder]

I think yer all crazy
getting MPPSK for 3 and a half grand
then slapping an expensive piggyback on top
5k that could have been put towards an M3

[Araemo]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

I think yer all crazy
getting MPPSK for 3 and a half grand
then slapping an expensive piggyback on top
5k that could have been put towards an M3

Two things:
That 5k doesn't necessarily get spent at the same time as the rest, so it's not the same.
an M3 is a lot more than 5k more than a 340i(X).

That being said.. I'm unlikely to get this myself, unless the before/after dynos look better than the official numbers. But if I did, it'd be more than a year after buying the car (w/ mppsk port installed) in the first place. $1500 a few years down the line for a butt dyno readjustment is not horrible, really.

[BLACK HAWK DOWN]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

I think yer all crazy
getting MPPSK for 3 and a half grand
then slapping an expensive piggyback on top
5k that could have been put towards an M3

For me when the M3 comes with xdrive I'll stop thinking about making this car 400+ hp.

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by toybm

For me when the M3 comes with xdrive I'll stop thinking about making this car 400+ hp.

Pretty sure nextgen M3 will be AWD

MPPSK $3500
Dinan Elite $1400
437M $2000
Coilovers $2000
Body upgrades $XXXX
Chassis upgrades $XXXX

We're closing in on M3 territory and we're still short of M3 performance and still some unknown costs leftover..
just tryin to keep yall grounded
I know we all luv putting money into our cars

[High Flier]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

Pretty sure nextgen M3 will be AWD

I'm in! When can I get one?