[CKau]

Originally Posted by metrathon

CKau amazing detective work dude. I'll try the fix next weekend. I hope you're not placeboing

I have removed the foam on the top portion of the b pillar as it wasnt really doing anything.that admittedly might have been placebo.

I have removed the foam along the bottom edge of the doors but did notice a ever so slight increase in noise. I replaced it with a smarter looking rubber strip but that seems to have done nothing. Cant be bothered removing it.

I will add another post when i get home w photos but i can debunk the mirrors as the cause of road noise. It is also the poor window seal where the mirror is located. Consider this a preview post :-)

[CKau]

Originally Posted by metrathon

CKau amazing detective work dude. I'll try the fix next weekend. I hope you're not placeboing

Before the weekend and before u run off and start buying supplies i suggest you play with the windows and observe whether there is any downward pressure on the recess edge of the seal and any lifting on the outer edge. That will tell you if you even have a window seal issue to begin with.

[lightyear36]

Awesome work as always, thumbs up!

Could you please make another photo from the perspective like the following one but with neoprene tapes applied?



Also, just to be clear, do you differentiate strictly between:

a) wind noise (top of B-pillar)
b) road noise
c) tire noise

? If yes, what exactly does your latest mod reduce? a) or b)?

[CKau]

Originally Posted by lightyear36

Awesome work as always, thumbs up!

Could you please make another photo from the perspective like the following one but with neoprene tapes applied?

The photo you quoted was of the driver's door. The photos in my post were actually of the front left door... so it's the mirror image of the driver's door.

I didn't post the "before" shot of the front left as I only thought to take a photo after I had applied the tape.

Anyway, I used arrows to highlight where I applied the neoprene rubber tape

Originally Posted by lightyear36

Also, just to be clear, do you differentiate strictly between:

a) wind noise (top of B-pillar)
b) road noise
c) tire noise

? If yes, what exactly does your latest mod reduce? a) or b)?

Yes I do distinguish between them. The mod solves b) road noise. When I drive on smooth roads to good roads, the car is very quiet. The noise is only very loud on poorer surfaces. So this is definitely b) or c) that I'm solving. If it was a) I would hear a wind buffeting noise. The door tightening solved the wind noise problem.

I equate c) to the tyre noise and vibration coming through the suspension, where I call b) the noise that you hear through floor, panels & windows that is the tyre roar reflecting off the road. I call tyre roar the contact noise made as the tyre's contact patch hits the road.

When I was scrutinising the car, I observed that BMW have gone to great lengths to insulate the floor. That's what made me determined to fix the problem, as opposed to giving up & selling the car, as I can see the basics are in place for a car that can be fantastically quiet.

The sound I'm eliminating is the sensation of the windows not being closed properly when I'm driving on loud poor surfaces. Some people in the wind noise thread complain of this as well. Like them, I also touch the window switches to ensure the windows are fully wound up. But in their case wind is infiltrating the cabin whereas in my case, wind is not - only the road noise is.

In terms of pitch, on poor surfaces there is a lot of low frequency rumbling accompanied by an annoying higher pitch noise that sounds like aircraft fuselage turbulence noise at the back of a passenger jet.

When I put the tape in place, the higher pitch gushing noise is eliminated and I'm left with the low frequency rumbling sound.

This is not a cure for c) tyre noise... when I drive on really bad surfaces, I still hear that via the suspension - but at least the aggregate volume is now a lot less than before to the point that the rumbling level is comparable to other cars I have driven (and these were really quiet cars).

I've already tried to reduce tyre noise by switching out RFT's to normal tyres. I'm not sure there is much else I can do other than switching to touring summer tyres... but that's going a bit too far for me as I do want some good grip for sporty cornering.

[xit2050]

Just dropped of the car at the dealer for an oil change and to have them look (again) at the door seals...
They gave me a 2013 F30 as a replacement car.
The thing I noticed immediately is that the doors close with a solid 'thumb' sound, whereas mine sound like a tin can.

Will check tomorrow morning for wind noise when I'm on the freeway.

I'm definitely reporting this to the dealer when I'm going to pick up my car tomorrow and maybe I'll ask for an appointment with a BMW inspector at the dealer to let them hear the difference for themselves.

[lightyear36]

Originally Posted by CKau

This is not a cure for c) tyre noise... when I drive on really bad surfaces, I still hear that via the suspension - but at least the aggregate volume is now a lot less than before to the point that the rumbling level is comparable to other cars I have driven (and these were really quiet cars).

I've already tried to reduce tyre noise by switching out RFT's to normal tyres. I'm not sure there is much else I can do other than switching to touring summer tyres... but that's going a bit too far for me as I do want some good grip for sporty cornering.

As far as I understood from other forums, people were mostly solving it by applying proper insulation to the wheel archs. They were insulating the doors and the floor as well (as part of a proper music system installation), but noticed that the wheel archs contributed the lion's share to the tire noise.

Additional insulation adds weight though.

[CKau]

Sorry. Forgot to mention shrouding the wheel arches also reduces road noise. I forget who has been following my exploits and assumed readers knew that already :-P

[CKau]

Originally Posted by lightyear36

Additional insulation adds weight though.

I dont think the wheel arch shrouding, plugging the suspension tower hole and neoprene tape and rubber d tape would have added more than 300grams

[lightyear36]

Originally Posted by CKau

I dont think the wheel arch shrouding, plugging the suspension tower hole and neoprene tape and rubber d tape would have added more than 300grams

I read all your exploits :-)

What I meant was taking the wheel arch cover off and putting a layer of the self-adhesive automotive insulation foam onto the _whole_ surface of the wheel arch. If you do all four of them, THAT adds weight.

[CKau]

Originally Posted by lightyear36

I read all your exploits :-)

What I meant was taking the wheel arch cover off and putting a layer of the self-adhesive automotive insulation foam onto the _whole_ surface of the wheel arch. If you do all four of them, THAT adds weight.

I tried to remove.the front wheel arch but was confounded.by the plastic retaining moulding at the rear of the wheel arch where the arch meets the fender. Cant work out how to remove it as it looks to be clipped in, not screwed in. Any pointers welcome.

[lightyear36]

Originally Posted by CKau

I tried to remove.the front wheel arch but was confounded.by the plastic retaining moulding at the rear of the wheel arch where the arch meets the fender. Cant work out how to remove it as it looks to be clipped in, not screwed in. Any pointers welcome.

Hm, no real competence there, sorry. Reason is: that one I wouldn't do myself even if I were contemplating putting additional insulation there. Would take the car to the pros and get some solid warranty.

[CKau]

1 1/2 yrs later figured out why the road noise is so bad. It's the outer door seal of the rear doors not making contact with the chassis.

To figure out if you have this problem, use a piece of red chalk and smear chalk dust on the seals. Shut the door. If there is no chalk mark on the chassis, you know the seal isn't making contact.

I demonstrated this to the service centre & took the chalk with me. My main problem is with the rear right door bottom edge barely making any contact. When they saw no chalk mark, they changed it no questions asked.

How did I discover this?

I had a minor collision where my left rear door had to be replaced. After the repair, the road noise was attrocious. I discovered the seal was placed very far away from where the door & chassis make contact!

After they fixed it the car was considerably quieter. That's when the cogs in my head started turning.

I applied the red chalk to all 4 doors outer and inner seals and found the rear right was the problem.

btw when you use the red chalk, you may have to create a bit of dust by rubbing it on a coarse surface to create the dust.

Good luck with this tip.

p.s. after driving on really poor road surfaces, I can say the problem is nicked for my car.

[xit2050]

What seal are we exactly talking about?
Could you post a picture?

I also think my rear right door is the issue, but having trouble proving it to the dealer.

[baw]

Originally Posted by Kowboi

Do you have run flat tires? I find they are three times as loud as normal tires. Also the run flats are stiff and less forgiving. You feel every bump in the road.

+1

I was sick of the crappy ride and excessive noise from the run-flats within the first 1000 miles on my 428.

Switched to non run-flats and am much happier regarding noise and stiffness issues.

Why can't BMW offer buyers a choice or run-flats or not???

[Sport34me]

New here. First post, but have read quite a bit of this material.

I have 2013 328i Sport Line with 6MT with most of the bells and whistles. I have just about 15k on the odometer. My tires seem to be in good shape so I'll have to live with the excessive noise for a little while longer I guess. I also have to agree with the door seal claim as it relates to road noise. As it has gotten warmer now there is less noise in the cabin, but still very noisy. Moving up through the gears to get up to speed is probably more noticeable for me with the manual transmission. I had my first oil change around 13.5k on the odo. Just after the oil change the engine seemed more smooth and less 'grindy', but it is now back to its gruff, harsh sounds.

Anybody know whether the 2015s will be any quieter? I mean with better sound insulation from the factory?

[metrathon]

Most of the time swapping RFT to normal tires won't fix the tire noise. If anything, it will improve the ride quality a bit, but that's about all. I tried it, and more than once.

I haven't tried CKau fix yet, but the tire noise is a recurring theme of all the 3/4/4GC reviews I've read. MT, C&D, Autoblog, etc, they all mention the tire noise in all three iterations of the chassis.

I wish, i PRAY it's a door seal issue, but I don't think it will be so easy. IMO, it's a noise insulation problem and we're stuck with the tire and wind noise, at least until the LCI. Or if you really wanna fix it, buy a 5 Series

[lordlen21]

Originally Posted by CKau

1 1/2 yrs later figured out why the road noise is so bad. It's the outer door seal of the rear doors not making contact with the chassis.

To figure out if you have this problem, use a piece of red chalk and smear chalk dust on the seals. Shut the door. If there is no chalk mark on the chassis, you know the seal isn't making contact.

I demonstrated this to the service centre & took the chalk with me. My main problem is with the rear right door bottom edge barely making any contact. When they saw no chalk mark, they changed it no questions asked.

How did I discover this?

I had a minor collision where my left rear door had to be replaced. After the repair, the road noise was attrocious. I discovered the seal was placed very far away from where the door & chassis make contact!

After they fixed it the car was considerably quieter. That's when the cogs in my head started turning.

I applied the red chalk to all 4 doors outer and inner seals and found the rear right was the problem.

btw when you use the red chalk, you may have to create a bit of dust by rubbing it on a coarse surface to create the dust.

Good luck with this tip.

p.s. after driving on really poor road surfaces, I can say the problem is nicked for my car.

Hi, I've been reading this thread with great interest including your previous mods to tackle road roar (sock etc) and just wondered what your conclusions are? Do you think it was the rear door seals that were the culprit only or combined with the mods you made in the engine bay and insulation around the leading edge of the from doors?

[maa335iF30]

What's this obsession with trying to create the quietest cabin? It's an entry level luxury sports sedan with a key word here being "entry". And since they slapped the run flats on these cars, they've been louder than ever. Some will argue (and rightfully so) that it makes the car more sporty and connected to the road. If you wanted quiet, Lexus was the way to go...or upgrade to 5 series.

[metrathon]

Originally Posted by maa335iF30

What's this obsession with trying to create the quietest cabin? It's an entry level luxury sports sedan with a key word here being "entry". And since they slapped the run flats on these cars, they've been louder than ever. Some will argue (and rightfully so) that it makes the car more sporty and connected to the road. If you wanted quiet, Lexus was the way to go...or upgrade to 5 series.

Is this a fart after-thought? Who said anything about the "quietest"? Every other vehicle in the same class is quieter than the F30. Go drive, then post.

[bahasad]

And here I am trying to get more exhaust/intake noise to come in.

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by bahasad

And here I am trying to get more exhaust/intake noise to come in.

lol. Whats wrong with you? j/k.

I know..I was looking at axle back exhaust systems myself. Guessing most of the road noise experienced were due to the RF tires. They were pretty loud on a stretch of Highway 1 that we took a few weeks ago..but other than that one section...they're fine and the car is quiet enough...

[maa335iF30]

Metrathon, relax dude. Didn't mean to raise your temperature. I've driven plenty of cars. Posting my opinion on the forum. If you disagree with it, be a nice guy and express your own opinion as others do