11-05-2012, 11:57 PM | #155 | |
Private First Class
3
Rep 193
Posts |
Quote:
You, and others, might consider that people are using the term BMW drivers in different contexts. Given the list of cars you own/have owned, I don't think many BMW owners have similar tastes in cars as you do--especially in Europe, the home continent (the N.American mindset and product offerings are very different than that of Europe). You like some BMWs, but you also like some cars that are completely different from anything BMW has on offer. Honestly, I wouldn't take most of them, even for free. Regardless, this is an internet forum. Lofty editorial standards and reasoned discourse aren't the norm. boltjames is probably right that cadillac forums would have a more receptive and openminded outlook on the ATS than you'd expect here. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2012, 05:11 AM | #156 | |
General
18727
Rep 19,450
Posts |
Quote:
I'm on this Forum to have thoughtful conversations about automobiles with like-minded enthusiasts. I have a fondness for BMWs, but am open-minded enough to recognize other manufacturers make great cars too. It's a sad state to find people on this Forum that insist on being an ass. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2012, 05:31 AM | #157 | |
General
18727
Rep 19,450
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2012, 06:01 AM | #158 | |
Banned
17
Rep 533
Posts |
Quote:
And as the ATS' target customer who has owned cars in this segment since 1994 I'm quite qualified to say it has no reason to exist on grounds I've stated many times long before you ever brought your conceited and arrogant point of view here. It's too small for a Cadillac owner. It's too bland for an Audi owner. It's too old for anyone under 50. It's a humiliating step-down for a BMW or Mercedes owner. Like the Cimmaron, it's a car for no one. When are you getting your ATS, chief. Yup, thought so. BJ |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2012, 06:06 AM | #159 | |
Banned
17
Rep 533
Posts |
Quote:
Go start a "Zune Rocks!" thread over in the Apple forums, perhaps "RC Cola Is The Pepsi Killer!" thread over in the Coke-a-Cola forums, see how that works out for you. BJ |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2012, 06:22 AM | #160 | |
Major
610
Rep 1,080
Posts |
Quote:
interesting thing about your point. i think part of what dooms the ATS is that well its a cadillac. i've sat in it and it seemed ok. it seems too expensive. it seems that normal caddy buyers wont buy it. but from what i've read its at least a decent drive. The crazy thing is if the ATS were made by say ... acura, and had say 2005 acura styling but 2012 cadillac chassis and drive train it'd probably sell really well (well lets pretend it cost acura TL money). unfortunately it is made by cadillac and all the preceptions that go with it. I am not even saying its better than a BMW or an audi or whatever (since it most likely is not and its actually not even priced competitively lease or purchase), but cadillac's problem is its cadillac in a lot of things. supposedly the next camaro might be based on this chassis, and for say $25k. the chassis might actaully be a real class leader there, and be headed for the right demographic. Last edited by hans007; 11-06-2012 at 07:18 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2012, 06:43 AM | #161 |
First Lieutenant
6
Rep 341
Posts |
I drove the ATS 3.6 again yesterday and then the 335i M-Sport with sport auto afterwards so I can make my mind up about which one to lease for the next 24-30 months. The ATS interior is impressive; quiet and seemed very well finished. The touch screen CUE system seems novel but I am a neat freak and all the finger marks on the screen would drive me crazy! Still, most importantly, the drive was good. I even got a little over steer coming out of a low speed corner which is easily corrected with the throttle (my other car is a C63 so I'm used to that).
However, the BMW is just better in every respect. It's noticeably quicker in a straight line; quicker in turns with some under steer which is easy to deal with. The electric steering is not totally devoid of feel (in sport and sport+ modes); it's actually quieter too. The interior (Sport seats) seemed more comfortable and just as well made. I think the clinchers for me were: 1. The BMW N55 engine is cheaply and easily modified to yield another 40-50 rwhp (thus making it very quick) 2. Even though comparably equipped 335 is about 7k$ more, the lease payment on a 30 month, 15000 miles lease is LOWER than on the similar (27 month) Cadillac lease! The reasons are the residual values (Cadillac is lower on 27 months than BMW is on 30 months) and the BMW discount from invoice I was offered! So, even though I cannot be considered completely objective (I had a 2008 135i up until 2 years ago), the BMW 335i is the better car and the better deal.
__________________
2019 911 GTS
2017 M4 CV 2017 Mini JCW |
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2012, 06:49 AM | #162 | |
Lieutenant
24
Rep 413
Posts |
Quote:
The title of the video is just plain stupid. (ATS a 3 series Killer!!) but i don't remember 1 person on this forum that said the ATS , is a 3 SERIES KILLER , just that its a very good car that shouldn't be dismissed Last edited by Reznick; 11-06-2012 at 06:53 AM.. Reason: added |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2012, 08:07 AM | #163 | |
Private First Class
3
Rep 193
Posts |
Quote:
My point is that there isn't a good or bad side of the argument. Many of the pro-ATS posts sound just as pedantic and judgmental as those of the f30 fanboys sound idiotic. No one is under any obligation to test drive a new car in the 3 series segment. No one has to give cadillac a fair shot. They earned their less than stellar reputation, just as toyota earned their reliable reputation. When cadillac is putting out products that are more desirable and have features that excite customers more people will give them a shot and test drive their cars. Companies have to earn the respect of the consumer. The Cimarron comes up because it was the last GM foray into this segment. It didn't go well. Cadillac still told people it was great. Right now they get to be the boy who cried wolf. Maybe the ATS is a wolf, maybe it isn't, but I'm not surprised that some people aren't taking them seriously. There are too many products on the market, including this segment, for people to be able to be informed on all of them. Even if BMW is coasting on respect earned in the past, that is their prize for putting out consistently good products. If Cadillac had done the same more people on here would be interested in potentially owning the ATS. If the ATS keeps getting favorable reviews, I'm sure many of the people who dismissed it at the start will give it a more serious look. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2012, 08:32 AM | #164 | |
Lieutenant
24
Rep 413
Posts |
Quote:
You are exactly right. We have 2 groups on at different extremes that both fight fiercely for the same car. I may prefer a "drivers" car without a lot of gadgets but I understand that people want more luxury. Fine, I've always told people to drive what THEY want. It is possible and I hope Bolt truly loves what he drives, but if you look at his other posts on other threads, he slams EVERYTHING that isn't a F30 328 . I mean everything,,335's, M3's 128's ect..ect..This is a BMW site for BMW enthusiasts not a 328 site . That goes beyond being an "Elitist" as he likes to call himself. It wouldn't have mattered if the name of the video posted was " BMW 335 is a 328 killer" his responses would be the same. Last edited by Reznick; 11-06-2012 at 08:40 AM.. Reason: added info |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2012, 10:52 AM | #165 | |
Captain
150
Rep 604
Posts |
Quote:
I am a car guy not a just a bmw guy. To lock yourself into liking only one brand is the exact opposite of being an enthusiast/gear head/car guy/petrol head. Ever since Cadillac made the cts-v they have gain my respect. I have driven the ATS unlike some people here and it is closer to bmw driving feel then any lexus or mercedes (cars I have also driven) and it is on my short list of cars for when I will be replacing my 335i in May. Short list is 1. Jaguar XF AWD 2. BMW F30 335i xDrive M-Sport 3. Cadillac ATS 3.6 AWD, all three of which are good cars. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2012, 10:55 AM | #166 | |
General
18727
Rep 19,450
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2012, 01:02 PM | #167 | |
Banned
17
Rep 533
Posts |
Quote:
You are hating on the F30 and puppy-loving the ATS and you keep your cars to a quarter-million miles and you are considering a General Motors product? We have our Enthusiasts, we have our Elitists, now we have our first Masochist. LOLZ BJ |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2012, 01:23 PM | #168 |
Major General
717
Rep 5,021
Posts |
Let's make this the longest thread, EVER!
After Sandy, this is the real thing: A storm in a tea cup! You know how we Brits love a cuppa tea. Keep pouring!
__________________
Previous: Superman 330d sDrive M Sport + Toys
Present: Red Tornado Golf 7R 5 Dr, DSG + Toys |
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2012, 06:10 PM | #172 |
Lieutenant
24
Rep 413
Posts |
I need a "kick" .I'm stuck in a thread where I'm being chased by Elitists, FAux Enthusiasts,real Entusists and every F30 328 is the perfect car on the road....If you don't get me out I could be stuck in this thread forever....my top won't stop spinning......
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2012, 07:51 PM | #173 |
General
18727
Rep 19,450
Posts |
Yes. Apparently you are uninformed... You've not read any of the thousands of threads on E90 Post where almost everyone is absolutely frightened to keep a BMW past the warranty period. And you laugh at me. Seriously LOL.
Last edited by Efthreeoh; 11-07-2012 at 05:01 AM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
11-07-2012, 09:07 AM | #174 | |
Banned
17
Rep 533
Posts |
Quote:
They have feelings too, you know. BJ |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-28-2012, 05:27 AM | #175 | |
General
18727
Rep 19,450
Posts |
Quote:
"Some days, I wish we'd gotten the eight-speed automatic in our long-term 328i. The manual transmission is just OK. The shifter feels like it's made of rubber, and snaps into gear like the latch on a microwave (oven) door. It doesn't feel particularly mechanical, and doesn't really like to be hurried." - Scott Evans, Motor Trend. Wow. The worst I've seen written about the ATS is the shifter is "notchy" and the clutch take up is not great due to a heavy flywheel. Sounds like to me the shift quality of both the ATS and 328i have something left to be desired. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-28-2012, 10:05 AM | #176 | |
Major General
654
Rep 5,803
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
F30 330i Alpine white/Coral red Msport 6MT
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|