04-17-2021, 07:49 PM | #155 | |
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My recollection is that when BMW offered LSD, you didn't need to order a different package to get it in most cases. It was just an option. I know in my E28 535is most of those came with it but it was still the same option as it was in the regular 535i. |
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04-18-2021, 07:39 PM | #156 | |
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In the 90’s we had the SL300/SL500/SL600 non-AMG cars and then the SL55 AMG and the SL65 AMG. Both 55 and 65 models were full on AMG, just like the CL55/CL65 and the S55/S65 were all AMG cars. |
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04-18-2021, 07:54 PM | #157 | |
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Was the lsd offered on the standard "i" trim e30s? I hunted down an IS specifically because I'd wanted the LSD and better seats. I don't recall ever seeing a regular 325/318i with a factory LSD
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04-18-2021, 08:10 PM | #158 |
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If it comes from the factory and has the M badge ( door sits, steering wheel), perfectly fine, adding it yourself. Big no no
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04-19-2021, 12:55 PM | #160 |
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04-21-2021, 03:13 AM | #161 |
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I have been on both sides TBH.
When I had a F32 440i and installed MPPSK and almost all M performance visual mods, I considered it as M440i. (The actual M440i wasn't out then). I couldn't afford a new F82 then and had to choose a new F32 and did the upgrades progressively. I felt included in the M category although I knew very well that mine wasn't a real M car and oversold my car's status many a times. I used to really wonder why those real M car owners couldn't agree on baby Ms and just leave us be. But.... When I got an F82, I flipped like bipolar. My wife still mocks me on this point. But so proud that she can spot most models/ variations including fakery in a jiffy Guess it comes down to BMW Marketing and Sales strategy to tap more customers and let us poor souls debate on and on while they bring out more baby M like baby boom in the COVID era. P.S. M sports package is NOT an M in any planet and what a time pass reading this thread |
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04-21-2021, 09:51 AM | #162 | |
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04-21-2021, 11:27 AM | #163 |
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My e30 is not an iS but it has a factory LSD. At that time, a LSD could be optioned apart from any package.
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Squad - '90 E30 325i MT (226k) | '98 E36/5 318ti MT (160k) | '03 E46 325i MT (156k) | '04 E46 330xi MT (195k) | '15 F22 M235i MT (66k) | '15 F30 335i MT (85k)
KIA - '91 E30 325i AT (146k) | '02 E46 325i MT (212k) Bring back the purple M stripe |
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04-21-2021, 11:49 AM | #164 |
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For me it is like the difference in Tudor and Rolex. A Tudor is just that a very nice watch but different from a Rolex by design.
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04-21-2021, 11:51 AM | #165 | |
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I know exactly what Mercedes did, my point was that they own the name, they can do whatever they want with it. AMG used to be an outside tuning house and there are plenty of people who don’t consider anything built after ‘99 when Mercedes purchased the company to be “true AMGs.” Some people consider everything after 1990 “not a real AMG” since that’s when they signed their co-operation agreement with Mercedes. If you want to draw the line at hand built engines, that’s on you, but understand that it’s a completely arbitrary place to draw it. There are plenty of points from a fan perspective where you can say “they’re no longer real AMGs.” Or you could just listen to AMG themselves on the matter. AMG used to mean many things that are no longer true anymore and hand built engines are just one of those things. |
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04-21-2021, 11:59 AM | #166 |
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Oh wow learn something new everyday. Those sound like the golden days of BMW for sure.
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04-21-2021, 12:33 PM | #167 | |
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Same reason an M340i is not a real M, no "S" engine code. Audi at least labels it properly with A/S/RS, no one claims their S5 is built by the RS team which you are insinuating with AMG and their 53 AMG/43 AMG series. |
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04-21-2021, 01:08 PM | #168 | |
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What your probably thinking of was the change of the C450 (which they called an AMG sport) to the C43 (which they called an AMG) which were largely the same car, that would fit the description in your post, but the 450 vs 53 is a lot different than the C's changes. Last edited by stein_325i; 04-21-2021 at 01:14 PM.. |
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04-21-2021, 01:14 PM | #169 |
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In the great scheme of things...who cares! There are more important things to worry about then the labeling of a car.
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04-21-2021, 02:26 PM | #170 | |
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04-21-2021, 02:50 PM | #171 | |
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let’s agree to disagree. |
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04-21-2021, 03:08 PM | #172 |
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No No No No No No. But, is what it is. Mercedes, Audi do the same thing. My wife's "S Line" A6. Not sure what that means other than the it says so in the door sills.
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04-21-2021, 05:27 PM | #173 | |
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S54 was never based on M54, or S52 US for that matter. It was based on S50B32 euro engine, and the S50 euro engine was an evolutionary engine to the inline 6 used in M1. S14 of E30 M3 was two cylinders "chopped off" of M1's inline 6 for lighter weight. So S55 was the first M engine based on a regular production engine N55.
With regards to S85 and S65, they become quite reliable M engines with the simple rod bearing swap and can last 200K+ miles with occasional track usage, so I am not sure what the fuss is. You should see how many AMG/Audi/Porsche V8 engines are grenaded simply due to a poor oil lubrication and piston clearance design which are not an issue with M cars. BMW M never bothered with turbo engines until S55 because engineers perceived them as laggy, cheap and unimaginative way to gain horsepower, as high compression naturally aspirated engines are much harder to build correctly and require significant engineering exercise. That approach provided distinct character, performance and fuel efficiency over its competition. The reason S65 is two cylinders off S85 is not because of cost, more because the F1 inspired engine is well designed it can run competitive races for hours, and so did the S65. Quote:
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04-21-2021, 06:29 PM | #174 | |
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S65 and S85 are not reliable, period. Throttle actuators, main bearings, rod bearings, S85 vanos... When you have to say "except the rod bearings" you don't have a reliable engine. The main bearings tend to go, too. These are IMO not regular wear items on a street car and this is still a street car. The fuel efficiency claim is laughable too. There's almost no quicker way to an inefficient engine than to spin it quickly. S85 and S65 get horrific fuel mileage even compared to their contemporaries. I really love S85 and S65, but they are not perfect. Pretending the R&D cost saved by chopping two cylinders off of S85 is not a factor is a bit naive. Last edited by chris719; 04-21-2021 at 06:34 PM.. |
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04-21-2021, 06:31 PM | #175 | ||
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04-21-2021, 07:15 PM | #176 | |
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You should also re-read what I said about the comparative reliability. There are very few engines that are as strong in motorsport applications as M engines and are reliable at the same time. Throttle actuators should be considered 60-70K wear items, very cheap as well. With engines that see regular OCI (3k-5k km/1yr) there has been little reported cases where the main bearing wear was the main culprit of engine failure; they do wear but at much slower rate than rod bearings. I am referring mostly to S65, S85 did go through a series of revisions over time.
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