[MacklinUSOB]

Submit a listing to the BMW Roundel magazine.

There are few publications with readership as appreciative of 6MT as that.

[justinnum1]

Dealer was happy to take my car at lease end.

[rak299]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

Submit a listing to the BMW Roundel magazine.

There are few publications with readership as appreciative of 6MT as that.

It was listed on their online ads but I didn't do the magazine because of publishing deadlines. I had already ordered a replacement F30 so I could get it built before the EOP date in October. I found many dealers didn't have allocations. I don't want to end up with 2 cars, so I have a shorter timeline for a sale than what would be ideal for a private sale. I may just need to sell to Carmax or a dealer. The changeover to G20 from F30 is a problem for me. The options were limited when I found I really needed 4 doors and the next 3-series were auto only. An M3 is possible, but I mostly drive like an old fart so the normal 6-cylinder is more power than I really need or use. If that were the only way to get a manual, I would probable be able to rationalize some stupid justification that made no real sense, but selling to Carmax for 10% less is a better choice.

[yoon_209]

nobody wants to drive a stick car in SF and let alone the bay area...

[SoDiezl350]

Not to add salt to the wounds from some of the previous comments, but in addition to not being an M-Sport, it's also an X-Drive without the Dynamic Handling Package. Generally this is not an enthusiast combination.

Looking on autotrader, literally every 6 speed 435/440 is an msport, and all the X-Drives have dynamic handling.

That being said, I don't think your price is that far off, as comparable cars generally $5-10k more. It's just going to take some patience to find a buyer.

[530iDriver]

Here in Florida is practically impossible to sell a sedan with a manual transmission.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Regardless of the truth or non truth of the statement manuals are not popular as you have found out. BMW has figured out they are not popular anymore & are phasing them out.

The Germans are obsessed with performance and tech and most German engineers can't fathom why one would ever consider choosing the slower transmission option plus worse fuel economy. There is little regard for the "feeling" a car gives you and the connection. It's now all about comfort, isolation, performance, and bragging rights. Very soon, Porsche will be the only German automaker offering manuals.

The automakers, bean counters, and service centers also love sticking to one transmission because it dramatically cuts down on R&D, tech training, training documents, parts stocking, etc. Most importantly, THEY GET to the control what the driver can and can't do when it comes to controlling the transmission. Much easier to control warranty costs as well.

[Savageenterprise]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

Here in Florida is practically impossible to sell a sedan with a manual transmission.

I honestly believe that’s BS. Before I decided to go the lease route I was looking in a 500 mile radius for pre owned 335/340 6mt cars. I’d take a damn plane ride to Florida to buy a car if it’s the right car. And I can pretty much guarantee I’m not the only one. Any 6MT cars I called on were sold within days of being listed in my experience and with the manufacturing of them coming to a halt I only can see it becoming more desirable. It’s simple economics friend, supply and demand (speaking for those of us who want the 3rd pedal )

[Savageenterprise]

Originally Posted by SoDiezl350

Not to add salt to the wounds from some of the previous comments, but in addition to not being an M-Sport, it's also an X-Drive without the Dynamic Handling Package. Generally this is not an enthusiast combination.

Looking on autotrader, literally every 6 speed 435/440 is an msport, and all the X-Drives have dynamic handling.

That being said, I don't think your price is that far off, as comparable cars generally $5-10k more. It's just going to take some patience to find a buyer.

I just ordered my 340ix with 6MT and the dealer did not offer thp/dhp as an option which I thought was strange. In any event I plan to eventually do some acs springs to improve the handling aspect. It’s going to be my DD not my track rat so I figured that should be plenty good anyway

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The Germans are obsessed with performance and tech and most German engineers can't fathom why one would ever consider choosing the slower transmission option plus worse fuel economy. There is little regard for the "feeling" a car gives you and the connection. It's now all about comfort, isolation, performance, and bragging rights. Very soon, Porsche will be the only German automaker offering manuals.

The automakers, bean counters, and service centers also love sticking to one transmission because it dramatically cuts down on R&D, tech training, training documents, parts stocking, etc. Most importantly, THEY GET to the control what the driver can and can't do when it comes to controlling the transmission. Much easier to control warranty costs as well.

Actually the Germans are interested in selling cars & making money. Why waste development & certification money on a transmission with a single digit take rate for a slower car then the ZF or DCT?

Even the DCT is now on the going away list as the ZF is catching up in shift speed (new M5)

Agree with the engineers, why buy a slower performance car?

If MT's sold cars BMW would offer them not eliminate them. Don't bet your retirement money on Porsche selling a lot of MT's either. They sell fewer & fewer each year. We have 3 in the family 2 PDK & 1 6M.

Think a lot of MT drivers are tickling themselves with feelings. Its just an illusion with all the computerized intervention in a modern car. Even the MT's have very little in common with a true drivers car from the time MT was the performance king. Steering, braking, acceleration, cornering all under the watchful eye of the computer, it will even match revs on an MT.

I only drive one car with true "feeling". It has manual quick ratio steering, manual brakes, manual transmission, manual suspension settings, no stability system & no emissions system. Its fast, brutal, primitive & not for most people.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Actually the Germans are interested in selling cars & making money. Why waste development & certification money on a transmission with a single digit take rate for a slower car then the ZF or DCT?

Even the DCT is now on the going away list as the ZF is catching up in shift speed (new M5)

Agree with the engineers, why buy a slower performance car?

If MT's sold cars BMW would offer them not eliminate them. Don't bet your retirement money on Porsche selling a lot of MT's either. They sell fewer & fewer each year. We have 3 in the family 2 PDK & 1 6M.

Think a lot of MT drivers are tickling themselves with feelings. Its just an illusion with all the computerized intervention in a modern car. Even the MT's have very little in common with a true drivers car from the time MT was the performance king. Steering, braking, acceleration, cornering all under the watchful eye of the computer, it will even match revs on an MT.

I only drive one car with true "feeling". It has manual quick ratio steering, manual brakes, manual transmission, manual suspension settings, no stability system & no emissions system. Its fast, brutal, primitive & not for most people.

LOL says the guy with a manual car in his stable. Unlike yourself, many of us can't have multiple cars for varying reasons so yeah, it's a bit frustrating when your transmission options are becoming more limited by the year.

Once automakers figured out how to make reliable 6+ geared automatics, the writing was on the wall. Better mpgs to meet CAFE, better acceleration, reduced costs, only way to integrate hybrid tech, and a way to monitor and control the driver's input. It was a win-win for them and not necessarily for people that really love to drive.

They've pushed damn hard for people to embrace automatics and it's been quite effective. Most drivers have never driven a stick so they have no idea what they're missing. DUH. Most are absolutely frightened by the idea of driving a manual.

I don't want a super raw daily driver manual. I want a refined car with a manual. My M235 6MT fits the bill perfectly. The car has just enough rawness and connection. I test drove the 8AT M235. It was definitely quicker, but there's NO WAY IN HELL I would have bought it. Clicking away at paddles is boring as F after a few months. Been there, did that, and lied to myself for 6 years that the paddle shift auto I owned was the best. LOL.

I learned a while ago that it's not important to be the fastest on the street. The driving experience is far more rewarding.

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

LOL says the guy with a manual car in his stable. Unlike yourself, many of us can't have multiple cars for varying reasons so yeah, it's a bit frustrating when your transmission options are becoming more limited by the year.

Once automakers figured out how to make reliable 6+ geared automatics, the writing was on the wall. Better mpgs to meet CAFE, better acceleration, reduced costs, only way to integrate hybrid tech, and a way to monitor and control the driver's input. It was a win-win for them and not necessarily for people that really love to drive.

They've pushed damn hard for people to embrace automatics and it's been quite effective. Most drivers have never driven a stick so they have no idea what they're missing. DUH. Most are absolutely frightened by the idea of driving a manual.

I don't want a super raw daily driver manual. I want a refined car with a manual. My M235 6MT fits the bill perfectly. The car has just enough rawness and connection. I test drove the 8AT M235. It was definitely quicker, but there's NO WAY IN HELL I would have bought it. Clicking away at paddles is boring as F after a few months. Been there, did that, and lied to myself for 6 years that the paddle shift auto I owned was the best. LOL.

I learned a while ago that it's not important to be the fastest on the street. The driving experience is far more rewarding.

There are countless threads with this same conversation rehashed over and over with people saying, in so many words, "it's faster... manuals are dead". I only can ask why, if that marginal difference is so vitally important, is not every F3X car sold equipped with adaptive suspension, MPPSK, M Sport brakes etc?

If someone on a public road is pushing hard enough to consistently benefit from that to the point where the boasting leads us to believe, they should reel it in and save it for the track.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

I only can ask why, if that marginal difference is so vitally important, is not every F3X car sold equipped with adaptive suspension, MPPSK, M Sport brakes etc?

$$$

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

Here in Florida is practically impossible to sell a sedan with a manual transmission.

dealer was happy to buy mine at lease end.

[jinxremoved]

Originally Posted by yoon_209

nobody wants to drive a stick car in SF and let alone the bay area...

It's true. I had four MT cars in the Bay and had to switch because of my partner being unable to drive our only (at the time) car. I wouldn't switch back now.

[upsidedownfunnel]

There are tons of manual transmission drivers on forums. The type of people who buy a six-speed BMW are more likely to go on forums, so you'll see a large proportion on here.

Selling stuff on forums or BMW CCA is an extremely small market as well.

I took my car in to the dealership and they offered me a very fair trade-in value for the car. Obviously lower than what I could get in private sale, but about the same as what they'd offer for an automatic car.

Also, what price are you trying to sell your car at and how long did you wait before ranting? This is a very important detail. KBB can be fairly inaccurate on how much a car is actually worth and you sometimes just have to wait for the right person to come along.

[rak299]

I don't think I ranted. I always knew that I could very easily need to sell to a dealer and I found that CarMax was about $1000 higher than a couple of dealer offers, and only about 10% lower than my listing price. I was only surprised that I got no calls or inquiries in 10 days - not even any scams or fake buyers who wanted to pay by check or guys who wanted me to sign the title and ship it somewhere. I think I am going to take the CarMax offer. I'm guessing their check will be good.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The Germans are obsessed with performance and tech and most German engineers can't fathom why one would ever consider choosing the slower transmission option plus worse fuel economy. There is little regard for the "feeling" a car gives you and the connection. It's now all about comfort, isolation, performance, and bragging rights. Very soon, Porsche will be the only German automaker offering manuals.

The automakers, bean counters, and service centers also love sticking to one transmission because it dramatically cuts down on R&D, tech training, training documents, parts stocking, etc. Most importantly, THEY GET to the control what the driver can and can't do when it comes to controlling the transmission. Much easier to control warranty costs as well.

There is another side to this German thinking, and that is driven by the customers.

UK market was virtually all stick, years back, we hated autos due to their limitations, 3 & 4 speed autos were awful things in most applications. But once we got 5 & 6-speed autos the market changed. Small cars are still dominated by MT, but in larger and more powerful cars, MT sales have dropped to the point the manufacturers have dropped a lot of the MT models. If BMW can't sale MT in more than very limited numbers, they only give us AT models. Many models there is no option, hasn't been for years.

Plus with the dominance of diesel, many drivers have found the diesel + auto combination works so well, they wouldn't go MT again anyway, even if there was an MT option. Add the congested roads where driving is becoming more a chore than the domain of enthusiasts, (even semi-enthusiast), driving ease has taken over for many, even those who enjoy driving.

I drove MT for over 30-years, and do still enjoy a few hours driving an MT hire car every now and again, but my daily driver is AT, the 8-speed being a rewarding AT drive.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

LOL says the guy with a manual car in his stable. Unlike yourself, many of us can't have multiple cars for varying reasons so yeah, it's a bit frustrating when your transmission options are becoming more limited by the year.

Yeah I have a number of MT's but am not blind as to the reality of the car business. Sticks still do well in small displacement sports cars like a Miata. They are no longer in much demand in DD sedans & coups. Such is life.

That is what is & not what a small minority of people want it to be. No point in bitching about it because it's not gonna get any better over time. Only thing you can do is buy what is available, if any, next time around.

The head of BMW has stated they are pretty much history when he introduced the ZF8 only M5, the 7DCT is also going away.

The 135is 6MT JB4 is a fun ride but they sold very few of them. IIRC only 3 or 4 were delivered in the exact same spec, (color, trim, options, etc) as mine.

BTW for all the good words the motoring press had about the IS its still a highly computerized car that does not have the "feel" of the old sports cars & sedans. They went away mid last centuary

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Yeah I have a number of MT's but am not blind as to the reality of the car business. Sticks still do well in small displacement sports cars like a Miata. They are no longer in much demand in DD sedans & coups. Such is life.

That is what is & not what a small minority of people want it to be. No point in bitching about it because it's not gonna get any better over time. Only thing you can do is buy what is available, if any, next time around.

The head of BMW has stated they are pretty much history when he introduced the ZF8 only M5, the 7DCT is also going away.

The 135is 6MT JB4 is a fun ride but they sold very few of them. IIRC only 3 or 4 were delivered in the exact same spec, (color, trim, options, etc) as mine.

BTW for all the good words the motoring press had about the IS its still a highly computerized car that does not have the "feel" of the old sports cars & sedans. They went away mid last centuary

Yeah, I understand it's "just the way it is" and there's no turning back. A few decades ago, manuals were almost always the fastest/quickest option. That's no longer the case except in a few rare cases with smaller displacement, non-turbo vehicles. CAFE/MPG requirements and bean counters have pushed the automakers towards automatics and most drivers don't want to be burdened by actually driving a car.

I just know that an automatic is not for me in any of my personnel cars, even if it's faster/quicker, gets better mpg, etc. I've had both, multiple times over my nearly 30 years of driving. It's also extremely telling that you very rarely hear of someone on a car forum say they wished they choose the auto over the manual, but there are TONS of thread/posts about automatic/DCT owners wishing they got the manual and/or they that they traded the auto/DCT for a manual. Also, when you go to a car event and someone sees that your car is a manual, people make a lot of positive comments about it, especially if it's more of a performance model. Point is, the love the manual is very much alive and true.

[misterjim]

Originally Posted by rak299

There are several forum users, like me, who are confirmed 3-pedal drivers and who complain about the 6MT going away. I am getting a first-person example of BMW's position that there isn't enough demand. I have a 2-year-old F32 and I need to swap the 2-door for a 4-door because other "voters" in the household cannot deal with the more-difficult access. It is a nice 6-cyl very low-mileage car in a reasonable color (white with red) so I thought I wouldn't have a problem selling to a private party, either through a forum or BMW CCA, rather than trade it into a dealer who started out saying that his offer would be lower than low KBB wholesale because of the 6MT. I ordered a new car and listed mine for sale. I live in a large, metropolitan area so I thought there would be a reasonable amount of interest. Actually, there was none. No calls; no inquiries. I realize the F32 is not as big of a seller as the sedan, and perhaps I should have considered resale when I bought the coupe, but it was what I wanted and I still prefer the coupe over the sedan. I kept my last car (528i) for 18 years so I didn't worry about how I would dispose of it. I guess I am going to need to take it to carmax or something similar and see if they can do better than the dealer.

Where I live in western NY there are very few manuals. When the dealers get one they usually sell pretty quick. The Buffalo dealer had 2 manual 335s and one 340 and they sold quickly. The 340 sold within a few days of appearing on their website.

[MyFirst340]

I shopped for a 6mt 340 for months before a dealer begged me to just take their fully loaded auto. I really didnt want an auto but for an offer i couldnt refuse came up well, then I went with the auto. No regrets but still