[kobluna]

I finally flashed Stage1 93 to my 320i today. It feels great and also iDrive Sport display dials got updated to bigger values. So I can actually see bigger numbers and dials won't max out.

Logs:
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5cd8150cc090c61546700bfb - WOT pull in 3rd gear. 1 knock detected
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5cd81522c090c61546700bfc - Short pull in 6th gear. 3 knocks detected!

However, I'm not expert of reading logs, so I would appreciate it if someone more knowledgeable than me could take a look. I see that there is knock detected in both logs which worries me a bit. Is it ok? I also see that throttle is not 100% even though I kept pedal pressed in full (which can be seen in the log as well). Finally I wonder why timing between cylinders differs from each other? Timing is same when cruising/partial throttle but at WOT timing of cylinders 2 and 3 differs quite a lot from 1 and 4.

Are those things normal and is it safe to drive or should I flash back to stock and request a modification from PTF?

Thanks!

[rjd_F30]

To answer your questions: most examples of knock are artifactual and nothing to worry about, so long as everything else is clean, which in your case it is not. Throttle angle less than 100% when the pedal is to the floor is called a throttle closure, and can be either traction control, or a safety measure if the car isn't running right. Timing variations between cylinders is normal, as long as timing is still a nice smooth climb up.

Now, your logs don't look too hot. If I were you, I would flash back to stock for now and send those logs to PTF expressing the following concerns: It is running way too lean at times, is having throttle closures, and is knocking. Again, knock isn't always bad if everything else looks good, but in your case, the knock in conjunction with the throttle closures and too high of AFR indicates a problem. So, flash back to stock, send the logs to PTF via a support ticket, and see what they have to say about it.

[kobluna]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

To answer your questions: most examples of knock are artifactual and nothing to worry about, so long as everything else is clean, which in your case it is not. Throttle angle less than 100% when the pedal is to the floor is called a throttle closure, and can be either traction control, or a safety measure if the car isn't running right. Timing variations between cylinders is normal, as long as timing is still a nice smooth climb up.

Now, your logs don't look too hot. If I were you, I would flash back to stock for now and send those logs to PTF expressing the following concerns: It is running way too lean at times, is having throttle closures, and is knocking. Again, knock isn't always bad if everything else looks good, but in your case, the knock in conjunction with the throttle closures and too high of AFR indicates a problem. So, flash back to stock, send the logs to PTF via a support ticket, and see what they have to say about it.

Thank you! I take your word of it and flash back to stock. It feels smooth but last thing I want is blown engine. Log was taken with Sport+ so traction control was also in limited mode. So I think throttle closures was some safety measure to protect engine.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by kobluna

Thank you! I take your word of it and flash back to stock. It feels smooth but last thing I want is blown engine. Log was taken with Sport+ so traction control was also in limited mode. So I think throttle closures was some safety measure to protect engine.

No problem. Just open a support ticket with PTF on their website and they'll take care of you

[kobluna]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

No problem. Just open a support ticket with PTF on their website and they'll take care of you

Yep, ticket is open now.

I took a log in stock tune and the throttle angle is acting like crazy. I guess it's used to control power output but it seems strange. That explains why Bootmod3 feels actually smoother than stock.
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5cd974aac090c61546700e2d

I accidentally took it in metric units so AFR 1.0 means 14.7.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by kobluna

Yep, ticket is open now.

I took a log in stock tune and the throttle angle is acting like crazy. I guess it's used to control power output but it seems strange. That explains why Bootmod3 feels actually smoother than stock.
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5cd974aac090c61546700e2d

I accidentally took it in metric units so AFR 1.0 means 14.7.

Yah that's odd. That may point to a mechanical issue rather than a tune issue if it happens when on the stock tune as well. Update when you hear back from PTF

[kobluna]

Has anyone else logged stock tune of N20? Preferably 20i version to make it as similar as possible but 28i would be also intresting to see. If there really is some mechanical problem I should take care of it asap anyway.

The engine does make funny whining noise espacially when cold but it doesn't sound like timing chain as it's more audible in 1000-2500 rpm but not above that. Usually timing chain whine occurs or even amplifies all the way to redline if I'm not mistaken. It might be the alternator maybe? Dealer just changed my oil a week ago and they reported no issues even though I mentioned the sound.

[kobluna]

Update to this. PTF answered to my logs (I have took more for them) and said that generally they seems good but that my fuel octane is not as high as it supposed to be. I changed to different brand (Teboil 99RON) fuel now (from Neste 98RON) but I haven't taken new logs with it yet.

Anyway I'm still not super happy with the tune. I have 8AT and it tends to keep in high gear and low rpm even with stock tune. With S1 tune it keeps even lower rpm and engine is not liking it. When I drive with D/Comfort the engine rumbles and shakes if there is moderate steep uphill as gear box is not downshifting but keeps rpm at 1300-1700. I guess this is because of added low end torque.

Speaking of torque, it seems quite excessive for me. As a reminder I have 320i i.e. 11:1 compression ratio. According to iDrive power and torque displays, the torque is now ~420Nm (310 ft-lb) which is too high for my opinion (Stock is 270Nm/200lb-ft). That is 70Nm (52 ft-lb) more than stock 328i!! I doubt that it's gonna do good to my engine especially as it now shakes and rumbles.

I'll ask my questions from PTF as well but is there others who uses Stage 1 93 octane map with 320i? Does it shake in D/Comfort and what is torque reported by sport displays? What about boost pressure? For me it seems to ~21psi according to logs which is almost same as 328i?

[RMachuca3d]

sport displays are a gimmick and in no way accurate fyi

[kobluna]

Originally Posted by RMachuca3d

sport displays are a gimmick and in no way accurate fyi

I know they are not super accurate but I guess they should give rough estimation anyway as they are calculated from boost and fuel flow by ECU. With piggyback tune they are not accurate at all but with ECU tune they should be? Anyway, other conserns remains so rumbling and high boost pressure are a bit worrying to me.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by kobluna

I know they are not super accurate but I guess they should give rough estimation anyway as they are calculated from boost and fuel flow by ECU. With piggyback tune they are not accurate at all but with ECU tune they should be? Anyway, other conserns remains so rumbling and high boost pressure are a bit worrying to me.

They're correspondent to throttle angle and rpm. They assume the car is stock and give you a power number based on the throttle angle and how much power/torque that amount of throttle at that rpm would generate. It is all in the computer and doesn't take any real time reading from the ECU. You could build the car up to 600hp and if you don't code the gauges, they'll still tell you that you are making 240hp at 6000rpm.

[Naiters]

Hello,

I also have a f30 320i stage 2, catless dp rest stock, dynoed for 267hp and 356nm of torque. 8AT coded for 2TB.
In comfort mode the car keeps rpm lower than stock and sometimes I also notice that it doesn't feel comfortable for the engine. Unless in traffic a sport mode solves all that "jerking" issues .

[kobluna]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

They're correspondent to throttle angle and rpm. They assume the car is stock and give you a power number based on the throttle angle and how much power/torque that amount of throttle at that rpm would generate. It is all in the computer and doesn't take any real time reading from the ECU. You could build the car up to 600hp and if you don't code the gauges, they'll still tell you that you are making 240hp at 6000rpm.

Oh, that was new info for me. But my displays do show bigger numbers than stock, maybe even too big. It looks almost like they would show 328i Stage 1 numbers as at WOT they reads 280hp and 420Nm. Maybe PTF has programmed the gauges in a wrong way for 20i version, I don't know. The car does feel superfast so hard to say if gauges are right or not.

Anyway real problem is engine rumbling on lower rpm range and I just use gauges to see which torque numbers seems to cause troubles. It looks like at 1500rpm anything above 300Nm will start rumbling. I don't like to lug my engine but that is what 8AT does in D/Comfort and now even more so as torque is increased.

Originally Posted by Naiters

Hello,

I also have a f30 320i stage 2, catless dp rest stock, dynoed for 267hp and 356nm of torque. 8AT coded for 2TB.
In comfort mode the car keeps rpm lower than stock and sometimes I also notice that it doesn't feel comfortable for the engine. Unless in traffic a sport mode solves all that "jerking" issues .

Thanks for the info. I also have coded mine to 2TB and retrofitted shift paddles
Sport mode does help but then mileage is not that great. Best would be if someone develops custom tune for 8AT and makes it to downshift earlier. With stock engine tune it usually downshifts when torque gauge is showing around 250Nm (270 is max for stock 20i). Engine still sometimes didn't like even that but shake can be felt. So even stock tune put too much stress to drivetrain (by keeping too high gear) in my opinion.
If I only would have 6MT... But those are impossible to find used here

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by kobluna

Oh, that was new info for me. But my displays do show bigger numbers than stock, maybe even too big. It looks almost like they would show 328i Stage 1 numbers as at WOT they reads 280hp and 420Nm. Maybe PTF has programmed the gauges in a wrong way for 20i version, I don't know. The car does feel superfast so hard to say if gauges are right or not.

Anyway real problem is engine rumbling on lower rpm range and I just use gauges to see which torque numbers seems to cause troubles. It looks like at 1500rpm anything above 300Nm will start rumbling. I don't like to lug my engine but that is what 8AT does in D/Comfort and now even more so as torque is increased.

Yah, PTF is capable of coding the sport displays, perhaps they did that on your tune version. Nothing changed in my sport displays but it's not impossible that they did something in yours. I would give some time for adaptations to settle in as well. I never drive in comfort mode for this reason though, it does seem that it leans toward lugging the engine rather than holding a gear. The car seems much happier in sport.

[F30Unit]

really interested in bootmod3 stage 1, anyone running it stock?

Thanks

[kobluna]

Originally Posted by superchargedturbo

really interested in bootmod3 stage 1, anyone running it stock?

Thanks

If you've read this thread you'll see that I had some issues with BM3 stage 1 93 octane tune. I flashed it back to stock for winter since I can't use the extra power with studded tyres anyway.

I'm going to try 91 octane tune with 93 octane fuel to see if it helps and also I'm going to flash xHP transmission tune since it has shift point editor.

Car did felt very different with the tune, almost more powerful than stock 328i that I have test drove earlier. I guess that's not the case actually but BM3 puts power down differently maybe? I have stock suspension and with stock tune it can't push rear end down in high speed when WOT. With the tune you can feel how it first pushes the rear suspension little bit down and then goes. So it must add some significant amount of power.

Anyway if I can make my problems go away with 91 octane tune, I think it's great option. My car was fully stock hardware-vise during my tests.

[MilanF30]

Originally Posted by kobluna

Yep, ticket is open now.

I took a log in stock tune and the throttle angle is acting like crazy. I guess it's used to control power output but it seems strange. That explains why Bootmod3 feels actually smoother than stock.
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5cd974aac090c61546700e2d

I accidentally took it in metric units so AFR 1.0 means 14.7.

Hmm that's strange, I was also logging stock tune for comparison, and it was also in metric units... but for 328i. I thought I messed something up, but I know that I didn't change any settings in bm3. Now, when I saw it happened to you too it's strange. Maybe that's how bm3 logs stock tune... Anyone else tried this?

[meltbox]

Originally Posted by kobluna

Update to this. PTF answered to my logs (I have took more for them) and said that generally they seems good but that my fuel octane is not as high as it supposed to be. I changed to different brand (Teboil 99RON) fuel now (from Neste 98RON) but I haven't taken new logs with it yet.

Anyway I'm still not super happy with the tune. I have 8AT and it tends to keep in high gear and low rpm even with stock tune. With S1 tune it keeps even lower rpm and engine is not liking it. When I drive with D/Comfort the engine rumbles and shakes if there is moderate steep uphill as gear box is not downshifting but keeps rpm at 1300-1700. I guess this is because of added low end torque.

Speaking of torque, it seems quite excessive for me. As a reminder I have 320i i.e. 11:1 compression ratio. According to iDrive power and torque displays, the torque is now ~420Nm (310 ft-lb) which is too high for my opinion (Stock is 270Nm/200lb-ft). That is 70Nm (52 ft-lb) more than stock 328i!! I doubt that it's gonna do good to my engine especially as it now shakes and rumbles.

I'll ask my questions from PTF as well but is there others who uses Stage 1 93 octane map with 320i? Does it shake in D/Comfort and what is torque reported by sport displays? What about boost pressure? For me it seems to ~21psi according to logs which is almost same as 328i?

Yea I had this complaint as well. I think they cooked up a modification for the tune where it boosts less at low RPM for me. Fixed that issue. Problem is its on an outdated version of the tune so I may have to ask them to do it again soon depending on how 1.4 behaves when I flash it again. Down to stock for me until I fix my turbo (chipped compressor wheel).

I suspect it happens as the transmission shifting is likely based on "available" torque. The more torque it thinks it can make in a gear at lower RPMs the less it thinks it has to shift. This is also due to the fact that low RPM with max torque was probably a more efficient operating point than down shifting. After the flash these assumptions may no longer be true and the extra boost may push it into a lower efficiency point. Now waiting to shift may gain no fuel economy benefit (or hurt fuel economy) and just cause NVH. I think the only real fix to this would involve some fiddling with the transmission cal but I don't really know the control strategy at all. Just me guessing.

I would pay a bit extra for PTF to come up with a tune that builds boost slower and blends into what they currently do around 2500 or 3000 rpm to avoid this rumble. Just makes me feel like I'm lugging the engine.

[kobluna]

Originally Posted by MilanF30

Hmm that's strange, I was also logging stock tune for comparison, and it was also in metric units... but for 328i. I thought I messed something up, but I know that I didn't change any settings in bm3. Now, when I saw it happened to you too it's strange. Maybe that's how bm3 logs stock tune... Anyone else tried this?

You might be right because I was also changing nothing. Anyway, how it looks for you? Does it also control boost and throttle angle constantly like in my log?

Originally Posted by meltbox

Yea I had this complaint as well. I think they cooked up a modification for the tune where it boosts less at low RPM for me. Fixed that issue. Problem is its on an outdated version of the tune so I may have to ask them to do it again soon depending on how 1.4 behaves when I flash it again. Down to stock for me until I fix my turbo (chipped compressor wheel).

I suspect it happens as the transmission shifting is likely based on "available" torque. The more torque it thinks it can make in a gear at lower RPMs the less it thinks it has to shift. This is also due to the fact that low RPM with max torque was probably a more efficient operating point than down shifting. After the flash these assumptions may no longer be true and the extra boost may push it into a lower efficiency point. Now waiting to shift may gain no fuel economy benefit (or hurt fuel economy) and just cause NVH. I think the only real fix to this would involve some fiddling with the transmission cal but I don't really know the control strategy at all. Just me guessing.

I would pay a bit extra for PTF to come up with a tune that builds boost slower and blends into what they currently do around 2500 or 3000 rpm to avoid this rumble. Just makes me feel like I'm lugging the engine.

Hmm, your situation sounds just like mine actually. Maybe I was not insisting it enough but PTF didn't offer to make a modified tune for me.

I also believe that transmission looks the new maximum torque and calculate some kind of shifting strategy based on that. But clearly it doesn't work too well for tuned engines. I would also be willing to pay them some extra if they would provide new extra OTS map with reduced down end torque. It should be better for engine and other powertrain parts. I guess it shouldn't be too big of an issue to make such map because they're already providing sliders that are limiting torque based on gear. If they could do the same for RPM's it would be great!

[meltbox]

Originally Posted by kobluna

You might be right because I was also changing nothing. Anyway, how it looks for you? Does it also control boost and throttle angle constantly like in my log?


Hmm, your situation sounds just like mine actually. Maybe I was not insisting it enough but PTF didn't offer to make a modified tune for me.

I also believe that transmission looks the new maximum torque and calculate some kind of shifting strategy based on that. But clearly it doesn't work too well for tuned engines. I would also be willing to pay them some extra if they would provide new extra OTS map with reduced down end torque. It should be better for engine and other powertrain parts. I guess it shouldn't be too big of an issue to make such map because they're already providing sliders that are limiting torque based on gear. If they could do the same for RPM's it would be great!

I literally bothered them for weeks (or maybe just a lot over about a month) until they did haha. It just felt... not right. I don't know. I'm hoping 4.4 fixes it for me. I'll post back when I get around to flashing it.

EDIT: Also exactly that. A boost limit by RPM would be super helpful. If I could get some more timing and less boost down low for more efficient rumble free operation. Feels more smooth stock, and although it pulls harder tuned, it feels really strained.

EDIT2: Maybe ask them if they can provide you the map they sent me? If they can look me up by VIN I can send you my vin just let me know by PM.

[kobluna]

Originally Posted by meltbox

I literally bothered them for weeks (or maybe just a lot over about a month) until they did haha. It just felt... not right. I don't know. I'm hoping 4.4 fixes it for me. I'll post back when I get around to flashing it.

EDIT: Also exactly that. A boost limit by RPM would be super helpful. If I could get some more timing and less boost down low for more efficient rumble free operation. Feels more smooth stock, and although it pulls harder tuned, it feels really strained.

EDIT2: Maybe ask them if they can provide you the map they sent me? If they can look me up by VIN I can send you my vin just let me know by PM.

Yep, I have exactly the same observations as you. Interesting that most of the threads are only praising the BM3 because in my opinion the lower end of RPM range would need some fine tuning. Maybe most of the people are driving constantly in Sport mode then?

Thanks for the tip about asking them to provide me the same map they did for you but unfortunately I have 320i which has different compression ratio. For me the latest map is v3.0 and release notes says that it has some boost control changes and ignition advance changes so I want to try it before complaining them more about it. But that has to wait for spring since here's winter now and I have studded tires.

Good to know that they fixed it for you eventually. If and when I still have problems in low RPM range I know to keep bothering them until they fix it for me

[meltbox]

Ooof yea missed the detail about yours being a 320i. They claimed that the new tune they gave me didn't actually drop any power/torque down low but I wasn't convinced. Nontheless it overall feels better. Perhaps they actually handed me a really early version of this enhanced boost control stuff. I haven't had a chance to try that yet on my car.

I think no one criticizes BM3 because despite its shortcomings it is still one of the best options out there and seems to be continuously improving at least.

That or our cars a borked lol.