F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N47 and N57 Turbodiesel Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Slow or broken thermostat?
ARMA SPEED
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-04-2019, 04:27 PM   #1
EricD735i
Private
United_States
14
Rep
72
Posts

Drives: Ď16 328d & Ď16 X3 28d
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Minneapolis transplant

iTrader: (1)

Slow or broken thermostat?

My 328d seems to take forever to warm up. Drove around town (low speed, stop & go) earlier today with my Foxwell hooked up and after 25-30 min coolant temp finally got to 180. Last regen was 65 miles ago per the scan tool so itís getting up to temp eventually. Car has 68k miles. Wondering if I should swap out the thermostat before the MN winter gets going. For comparison wifeís X3d heats up on the gauge in just a few miles.
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2019, 06:47 PM   #2
Enabled
Captain
271
Rep
751
Posts

Drives: 328xd Wagon
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

Good call on using a diagnostic tool to read coolant temperature, since the gauge is oil temp.

I would agree that you have a stuck open thermostat.
__________________
-2014 328d Wagon 2WD, 8HP flash, self-tuned, 265hp/430ft-lbs.
Others
-E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods. 2000 Z3 Roady. 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg Modded. S52 Estoril Z3M Coupe.
Appreciate 0
      10-05-2019, 07:03 AM   #3
Watsey
Major General
United Kingdom
3448
Rep
6,422
Posts

Drives: F31 330D sDrive M Sport
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: On sabbatical.

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enabled View Post
Good call on using a diagnostic tool to read coolant temperature, since the gauge is oil temp.

I would agree that you have a stuck open thermostat.
This ^ Almost certainly a stuck open 'stat.
__________________
Current : F31 330sD, DMS remap, XHPflashtune, Ohlins Road & Track, Millway Motorsports top mounts, SuperPro poly bushes, Quaife LSD, Stoptech Trophy front BBK / MSport rear discs and calipers, Pagid RSL1 pads all round, H&R/Eibach ARBs, Michelin P4S.
Appreciate 0
      10-05-2019, 10:08 AM   #4
EricD735i
Private
United_States
14
Rep
72
Posts

Drives: Ď16 328d & Ď16 X3 28d
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Minneapolis transplant

iTrader: (1)

Gonna get the parts ordered. Didnít realize the part is shared with the 35d cars. Those seem to have a lot of issues with broken thermostats.
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2019, 11:52 PM   #5
n00bkiller944
Second Lieutenant
65
Rep
285
Posts

Drives: '14 328d M Sport
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Richmond, VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricD735i View Post
My 328d seems to take forever to warm up. Drove around town (low speed, stop & go) earlier today with my Foxwell hooked up and after 25-30 min coolant temp finally got to 180. Last regen was 65 miles ago per the scan tool so itís getting up to temp eventually. Car has 68k miles. Wondering if I should swap out the thermostat before the MN winter gets going. For comparison wifeís X3d heats up on the gauge in just a few miles.
How did you know your car was taking an extended time to warm up prior to hooking the scan tool? One of the reasons I hate not having a coolant temp gauge is to monitor things like this.
Appreciate 0
      10-07-2019, 01:58 AM   #6
Watsey
Major General
United Kingdom
3448
Rep
6,422
Posts

Drives: F31 330D sDrive M Sport
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: On sabbatical.

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by n00bkiller944 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricD735i View Post
My 328d seems to take forever to warm up. Drove around town (low speed, stop & go) earlier today with my Foxwell hooked up and after 25-30 min coolant temp finally got to 180. Last regen was 65 miles ago per the scan tool so it’s getting up to temp eventually. Car has 68k miles. Wondering if I should swap out the thermostat before the MN winter gets going. For comparison wife’s X3d heats up on the gauge in just a few miles.
How did you know your car was taking an extended time to warm up prior to hooking the scan tool? One of the reasons I hate not having a coolant temp gauge is to monitor things like this.
The oil temp does provide an indication of engine temperature. The oil temp is by far the best indicator of when the engine is in an acceptable/safe operating temperature range for driving the engine hard.

The coolant temp can be accessed by using the OBC hidden menu.

Here's a YT guide showing how to unlock it :

__________________
Current : F31 330sD, DMS remap, XHPflashtune, Ohlins Road & Track, Millway Motorsports top mounts, SuperPro poly bushes, Quaife LSD, Stoptech Trophy front BBK / MSport rear discs and calipers, Pagid RSL1 pads all round, H&R/Eibach ARBs, Michelin P4S.
Appreciate 0
      10-07-2019, 09:41 AM   #7
Enabled
Captain
271
Rep
751
Posts

Drives: 328xd Wagon
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

I totally agree, oil temp is a much better indicator for overall engine temp.


Coolant temp is simply quicker to respond if there is an overheat condition, but you will definitely get warnings from the cluster and navigation system if the coolant temp goes too high.
__________________
-2014 328d Wagon 2WD, 8HP flash, self-tuned, 265hp/430ft-lbs.
Others
-E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods. 2000 Z3 Roady. 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg Modded. S52 Estoril Z3M Coupe.
Appreciate 0
      10-07-2019, 10:16 PM   #8
AlpineX
Captain
236
Rep
776
Posts

Drives: Diesel
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricD735i View Post
My 328d seems to take forever to warm up. Drove around town (low speed, stop & go) earlier today with my Foxwell hooked up and after 25-30 min coolant temp finally got to 180. Last regen was 65 miles ago per the scan tool so itís getting up to temp eventually. Car has 68k miles. Wondering if I should swap out the thermostat before the MN winter gets going. For comparison wifeís X3d heats up on the gauge in just a few miles.
2 days in a row I'm at 20 min to get to 88c. This is speed up to 40mph, ambient temp 45F and 55F. Bit long for my liking.
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2019, 03:42 PM   #9
EricD735i
Private
United_States
14
Rep
72
Posts

Drives: Ď16 328d & Ď16 X3 28d
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Minneapolis transplant

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by n00bkiller944 View Post
How did you know your car was taking an extended time to warm up prior to hooking the scan tool? One of the reasons I hate not having a coolant temp gauge is to monitor things like this.
Just the oil temp gauge taking forever to get up to temp compared to my wifeís car with same engine.
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2019, 05:02 PM   #10
EricD735i
Private
United_States
14
Rep
72
Posts

Drives: Ď16 328d & Ď16 X3 28d
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Minneapolis transplant

iTrader: (1)

So Iíve got the car apart replacing the thermostat. Unfortunately the one I ordered didnít come with the correct gasket so Iím waiting for my dealer to get one. Someone smarter than I am explain to me how this could fail open.







The little pin in the top of the thermostat fits into a corresponding hole in the housing. From what I can tell as the coolant heats up the pin extends and pushes that end away from the housing letting coolant flow. The big spring applies pressure in the opposite direction closing the flow. If the pin didnít move I donít see how it can fail open. What am I missing?
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2019, 03:21 PM   #11
mafatbhai
Enlisted Member
4
Rep
32
Posts

Drives: F30, F15
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Was there any check engine light or code in the ecu?

I am experiencing the same issue.
I have no check engine light. Dealer thinks its fine.

Oil temp gauge is remaining almost at 160F for good 30+ miles before it starts moving. Goes up to 210 F eventually.

Checked the coolant temp using hidden code on dash and it was hovering at 75 C for that time and climbed to 89C eventually after 30+ miles and 30 minutes of driving..

Outside temp was 28 F. Car mileage has dropped to 30 mpg from 38 mpg.

Any suggestions ?
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2019, 09:32 PM   #12
EricD735i
Private
United_States
14
Rep
72
Posts

Drives: Ď16 328d & Ď16 X3 28d
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Minneapolis transplant

iTrader: (1)

No CEL, and took forever to warm up like yours. Everything seems back to proper operation now. Definitely feels like power has increased now that itís getting up to proper temp so it either did a good regen or it was never getting past the cold engine mapping.
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2019, 05:29 AM   #13
expl0de
Private
12
Rep
65
Posts

Drives: BMW f30 320d and e92 320i
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bulgaria

iTrader: (0)

My car - 328d, takes about 20 minutes to get to operating temperature, but once there it stays there. Do you think this could be bad stat? My father's car is 530d and it gets to operating temp for less than 10 minutes. Both cars have the engine insulation, only his is 6 cyl. vs 4 cyl.
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2019, 06:07 AM   #14
HighlandPete
Lieutenant General
4243
Rep
12,360
Posts

Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by expl0de View Post
My car - 328d, takes about 20 minutes to get to operating temperature, but once there it stays there. Do you think this could be bad stat? My father's car is 530d and it gets to operating temp for less than 10 minutes. Both cars have the engine insulation, only his is 6 cyl. vs 4 cyl.
Are both engines reading oil temperature? What does the hidden menu show for the warm up phase, both for oil and coolant (ECT)?

From the topic discussion above, it is possible that the thermostat is opening at a lower than rated temperature, rather than being stuck open.

M47/57 engines had a common issue of 'stats opening at lower than rated temperatures, as they aged. Not been a common problem with the different thermostat in the N47/57 engines.

The fact you get there eventually, and temperature stays there, is the puzzling bit. Do you mean the ECT stays around the 88 - 90C design figure? Or are you referencing the oil temperature from the gauge?
Appreciate 0
      01-01-2020, 10:37 AM   #15
capt_slow
Lieutenant
capt_slow's Avatar
United_States
202
Rep
478
Posts

Drives: 2017 F31 328d
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Test run

I always noticed this car was slow to warm up, but always thought it was normal behavior. When I saw this thread, I thought I post up some measurements.

I went right to highway driving after going from a cold start, so engine RPMs were 1000-2000. It was idling for about 5 mins before going straight to 65ish MPH.

Time, Mileage, Oil temp (gauge cluster)
9:46, 24894, 120F (lowest gauge will go)
9:53, 24897, 121F (gauge begins moving)
9:58, 24902, 165F
10:03, 24908, 210F (normal operating temp)

So it took 17 minutes and 14 highway miles to bring the temps up to normal. Ambient temp was 66-68F according the gauge cluster.
__________________
2017 328d xDrive Sports Wagon: Estoril Blue, Black Sensatec, Driver Assist Pkg, M-Sport Pkg, Premium Pkg, ACC, Side/Top Cameras, Park Assist, Nav, HK
2018 i3 Rex: Imperial Blue, Giga Brown leather w/ Carnum Cloth, Tech+Driver Assist Pkg, PDC, CarPlay

Last edited by capt_slow; 01-01-2020 at 03:19 PM..
Appreciate 0
      01-01-2020, 02:00 PM   #16
AlpineX
Captain
236
Rep
776
Posts

Drives: Diesel
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

How about ambient temp, brief description of the drive profile including any still warm up, temp measuring device, time elapsed and temp, specify oil temp or water temp.
Could be useful for people to compare.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2020, 10:01 PM   #17
mafatbhai
Enlisted Member
4
Rep
32
Posts

Drives: F30, F15
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricD735i View Post
No CEL, and took forever to warm up like yours. Everything seems back to proper operation now. Definitely feels like power has increased now that itís getting up to proper temp so it either did a good regen or it was never getting past the cold engine mapping.
Did you check the old thermostat after replacing it ? Was it really failed open?

I am getting varying degree of coolant rise. Some days it rises up in like 10 min 10 miles (even on 19 F day) and some days its takes like good 25 minutes 25-30 miles on a 48 deg day..

I am contemplating replacing the thermostat.

Also the car seems to regulate the coolant temp at 190F after warming up. The coolant measurement is on hidden gauge cluster and on INPA.
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2020, 10:52 AM   #18
EricD735i
Private
United_States
14
Rep
72
Posts

Drives: Ď16 328d & Ď16 X3 28d
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Minneapolis transplant

iTrader: (1)

I never checked it but all seems back to normal now.
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2020, 02:50 PM   #19
mafatbhai
Enlisted Member
4
Rep
32
Posts

Drives: F30, F15
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricD735i View Post
I never checked it but all seems back to normal now.
How difficult was it to replace the thermostat. ? Is bleeding procedure easy? just fill and let it burp or have to use INPA to turn on the water pump etc ?
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2020, 03:18 PM   #20
mafatbhai
Enlisted Member
4
Rep
32
Posts

Drives: F30, F15
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricD735i View Post
I never checked it but all seems back to normal now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Are both engines reading oil temperature? What does the hidden menu show for the warm up phase, both for oil and coolant (ECT)?

From the topic discussion above, it is possible that the thermostat is opening at a lower than rated temperature, rather than being stuck open.

M47/57 engines had a common issue of 'stats opening at lower than rated temperatures, as they aged. Not been a common problem with the different thermostat in the N47/57 engines.

The fact you get there eventually, and temperature stays there, is the puzzling bit. Do you mean the ECT stays around the 88 - 90C design figure? Or are you referencing the oil temperature from the gauge?

When does the thermostat start opening?

The coolant temp on hidden gauge shows 89- 90 deg and stays there once its driven 30+ miles..
Appreciate 0
      01-10-2020, 03:20 PM   #21
EricD735i
Private
United_States
14
Rep
72
Posts

Drives: Ď16 328d & Ď16 X3 28d
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Minneapolis transplant

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mafatbhai View Post
How difficult was it to replace the thermostat. ? Is bleeding procedure easy? just fill and let it burp or have to use INPA to turn on the water pump etc ?
Not too bad. Itís a little tricky lining it up because itís at a funny angle. Buy the whole housing with the gasket. I bought just the thermostat online and it came with the wrong gasket. N47 does not have an electric water pump (you may want to replace the pump while youíre in there if you have some miles on it) but bleeding wasnít an issue. Just fired it up and topped it off once warmed up (turn the heat on high). After a couple of drives and topping off it was fine.
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2020, 10:59 AM   #22
mafatbhai
Enlisted Member
4
Rep
32
Posts

Drives: F30, F15
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricD735i View Post
Not too bad. Itís a little tricky lining it up because itís at a funny angle. Buy the whole housing with the gasket. I bought just the thermostat online and it came with the wrong gasket. N47 does not have an electric water pump (you may want to replace the pump while youíre in there if you have some miles on it) but bleeding wasnít an issue. Just fired it up and topped it off once warmed up (turn the heat on high). After a couple of drives and topping off it was fine.
Thanks Eric.

The folks at local BMW store are recommending just the thermostat and gasket change. I will be doing that in the upcoming days.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:34 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST