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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N20, N26, B46, B48 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Clearing Up Timing Chain Inconsistencies
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      08-25-2017, 10:29 PM   #23
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      08-26-2017, 02:11 AM   #24
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Anyone up for a timing chain DIY? I'm inclined get the necessary tools and replace all components before the engine fails. Looks like a time consuming project requiring fine attention to detail but there's plenty of space up front to get it done - unlike my previous car (B5 Passat) and it really doesn't seem all that difficult.
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      08-26-2017, 09:41 AM   #25
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If you were closer, I'd throw in labor to help. It would be doing the community a great favor if you put a DIY together.

Maybe get a list of the OEM part numbers and let us know what special tools are needed and what all that hardware costs.

Once we know how much time/labor it takes and what the hints, tips and tricks are, I'm sure some of us would tackle it ourselves, too.


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Originally Posted by F30328iN202013 View Post
Anyone up for a timing chain DIY? I'm inclined get the necessary tools and replace all components before the engine fails. Looks like a time consuming project requiring fine attention to detail but there's plenty of space up front to get it done - unlike my previous car (B5 Passat) and it really doesn't seem all that difficult.
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      08-26-2017, 11:26 AM   #26
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      08-26-2017, 05:49 PM   #27
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i have just brought a feb 2014 built 420i, i have checked my engine and my timing rails are the lighter color so believe these are the redesign.
hoping they are, as i have a warranty for a year i dont have to worry about this, hoping i got the redesign. timing chains look to be an issue on most newer cars, my old audi tfsi engine was known for the tensioner to go. eben after loads of redesigns by audi.

may just be luck or the way engines run nowadays, smaller engines with high power, looks like its putting strain on other engine parts.
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      08-27-2017, 11:46 AM   #28
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I was at the dealer looking at a couple of different 328is yesterday. I looked at the chain in each of them and took a picture of the chain in one that was built in March 2015. It looked the same as the one built it July 2014.
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      08-27-2017, 12:32 PM   #29
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It's a crap shoot which chain you have. The current #11318648732 is listed as being used starting 01/01/15, but the previous #11317584084 is listed as being used through 2/06/15.
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      08-30-2017, 05:51 PM   #30
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Given the lack of real sample data, it is too difficult to determine any surety to this potential issue. I wouldn't lose sleep over this honestly. The N20 is used in many many BMW vehicles and barring any real hard data evidence on failures it, folks might be over-reacting abit.
I see more threads around this than the Takata airbags failures.
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      08-30-2017, 06:04 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfitz View Post
Look at the mod threads. You can pretty much tell that the guys doing mods tend to be younger, they're not doing mods because they're conservative drivers, and it's mostly 320 and 328s that they're modding. I took a glance in the F10 forum, the same applies to the 528 versus 535, and there are timing chain threads about the 528, but not the 535.
For the most part, I can't tell the ages of the OPs...but I'll agree, as I got older, the mod bug has decreased but more power is always good regardless .

As for 6s costing more, etc...with all the used/off lease cars, I think it's a moot point where the $ is concerned.....
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      10-31-2017, 02:28 PM   #32
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This is a great thread. I am looking at buying a 2013 328i and reading lots about the chain guide issue which is worrying me and making me have 2nd thoughts. The car Im looking at has 50k miles and serviced at 13k, 25k and 41k following the variable service intervals. I just wonder how much an issue this is and if Im just hearing the horror stories and not all the delighted owners whove never had an issue. I need some balance!
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      10-31-2017, 03:45 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardparker View Post
If you were closer, I'd throw in labor to help. It would be doing the community a great favor if you put a DIY together.

Maybe get a list of the OEM part numbers and let us know what special tools are needed and what all that hardware costs.

Once we know how much time/labor it takes and what the hints, tips and tricks are, I'm sure some of us would tackle it ourselves, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by F30328iN202013 View Post
Anyone up for a timing chain DIY? I'm inclined get the necessary tools and replace all components before the engine fails. Looks like a time consuming project requiring fine attention to detail but there's plenty of space up front to get it done - unlike my previous car (B5 Passat) and it really doesn't seem all that difficult.

Im down for DIY

Seems like:
> remove valve cover
> all upper components in the way
> lock cams at TDC, lock vanos then remove vanos
> drop oil pan and remove oil pump chain + timing chain + guides
> reinstall with new oil pan gasket + valve gasket

Im in Oregon and my timing chain has already stretched as noted elsewhere on this forum:


Basically it seems my timing chain has stretched on a portion of it, the rest of the timing chain is tight and certain times when the engine stops with the stretched portion resting up top i can see it and feel it below the oil filter cap. I was thinking about just doing this myself and recording it for a DIY vid.
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      11-01-2017, 02:57 AM   #34
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Hey mattwong92, I'm up in Seattle but wasn't planning on doing mine until 60k [@45k now] or whenever my car showed the slightest signs of failure. However, if you need a hand I wouldn't mind pitching in but it'd have to be after Christmas. Not sure if your car can last 'till then : (

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattwong92 View Post
Im down for DIY

Seems like:
> remove valve cover
> all upper components in the way
> lock cams at TDC, lock vanos then remove vanos
> drop oil pan and remove oil pump chain + timing chain + guides
> reinstall with new oil pan gasket + valve gasket

Im in Oregon and my timing chain has already stretched as noted elsewhere on this forum:


Basically it seems my timing chain has stretched on a portion of it, the rest of the timing chain is tight and certain times when the engine stops with the stretched portion resting up top i can see it and feel it below the oil filter cap. I was thinking about just doing this myself and recording it for a DIY vid.
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      11-01-2017, 11:28 AM   #35
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Why are you guys looking to replace yourself when BMW just issued a "recall" of some sorts for this? At least that is my understanding, they are giving extended warranty or whatever for this issue.

Seems dealerships are jumping on the opportunity to replace and bill BMW now that it is official.

Though maybe i read into it wrong?
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      11-01-2017, 01:45 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmortar View Post
Why are you guys looking to replace yourself when BMW just issued a "recall" of some sorts for this? At least that is my understanding, they are giving extended warranty or whatever for this issue.

Seems dealerships are jumping on the opportunity to replace and bill BMW now that it is official.

Though maybe i read into it wrong?

I don't believe BMW has issued any recall for this at all. BMW is replacing the ones under warranty when they acknowledge the issue dealer by dealer (from forum reads) but besides that when they self destruct, BMW refuses to replace the engine even if its under warranty to my knowledge.

I took my car into my local dealership showing them the video of my stretched timing chain, and asked if I could replace the timing chain guide + oil pump chain + timing chain with the redesigned component from 2015 (I have an early Feb 2012 F30 328i that I got under factory warranty in 2015). They told me that timing chains were supposed to be like that and unless the engine was dead there was no way for me to prove that there was a timing chain issue.

Last edited by mattwong92; 11-01-2017 at 01:52 PM..
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      11-01-2017, 01:56 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30328iN202013 View Post
Hey mattwong92, I'm up in Seattle but wasn't planning on doing mine until 60k [@45k now] or whenever my car showed the slightest signs of failure. However, if you need a hand I wouldn't mind pitching in but it'd have to be after Christmas. Not sure if your car can last 'till then : (
My car just hit 51k. No whining noises yet from timing chain. I think just a section of it has stretched as I check under the oil cap before and after every single drive.

I don't think I need to do it just yet as no other symptoms have come up (whining, loss in power, typical timing chain noises). However it sounds like we are at similar mileage'ish :P maybe i'll hold off until we both hit 60k.
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      11-01-2017, 01:59 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattwong92 View Post
...as I check under the oil cap before and after every single drive...
Please tell me that you are joking...
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      11-01-2017, 02:04 PM   #39
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Please tell me that you are joking...
For real'z
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      11-01-2017, 02:32 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmortar View Post
Why are you guys looking to replace yourself when BMW just issued a "recall" of some sorts for this? At least that is my understanding, they are giving extended warranty or whatever for this issue.

Seems dealerships are jumping on the opportunity to replace and bill BMW now that it is official.

Though maybe i read into it wrong?
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho....php?t=1098641

Cut and pasted from thread on cars given the extended 7/70 warranty for timing chain issues:

The lateat ELW shows the affected units are as follows. This is a long list of cars!

E84 X1 s/xDrive 28i N20: 6/12 - 2/15
E89 Z4 sDrive N20: 6/11 - 2/15
F10 528i/x N20: 8/11 -2 /15
F22 228i Coupe N20: 7/13 - 2/15
F22 228i/x Coupe N26: 10/14 -2/15
F22 228ix Coupe N20: 6/14 - 2/15
F23 228i/x vert N20: 10/14 - 2/15
F25 X3 xDrive 28i N20: 3/12 - 2/15
F25 X3 sDrive 28i N20: 3/14 - 2/15
F26 X4 xDrive 28i N20: 3/14 - 2/15
F30 320i/x N20: 2/13 - 2/15
F30 328i N20: 6/11 - 2/15
F30 328ix N2/N260: 6/12 - 2/15
F30 328i N26: 2/12 - 2/15
F31 328i xDrive wagon N20: 12/12 - 2/15
F32 428i Coupe N20: 6/13 - 2/15
F32 428ix Coupe N20: 3/13 - 2/15
F32 428i/x Coupe N26: 7/13 - 2/15
F33 428i vert N20: 10/13 - 2/15
F33 428ix vert N20: 2/14 - 2/15
F33 428i vert N26: 11/13 - 2/15
F33 428ix vert N26: 2/14 - 2/15
F34 328ix GT N20: 6/13 - 2/15
F34 328ix GT N26: 6/14 - 2/15
F36 428i GC N20: 2/14 - 2/15
F36 428ix GC N20: 3/14 - 2/15
F36 328i/x GC N26: 414 - 2/15

Last edited by vader1; 11-01-2017 at 02:37 PM..
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      11-01-2017, 02:46 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattwong92 View Post

I took my car into my local dealership showing them the video of my stretched timing chain, and asked if I could replace the timing chain guide + oil pump chain + timing chain with the redesigned component from 2015 (I have an early Feb 2012 F30 328i that I got under factory warranty in 2015). They told me that timing chains were supposed to be like that and unless the engine was dead there was no way for me to prove that there was a timing chain issue.

If I am correct, the timing chain tensioner is partially driven by oil pressure, so the chain will be "looser" when the engine is not running by design. What they are looking for is the noise. If you do not have the noise they will not look to replace it, but you should be covered to 7/70 now with the warranty extension.

My car is now covered until September of 2020 so that gives me peace of mind to keep it for several years if I choose without worrying about it. But also keep in mind, failure rate is extremely low if you follow the many sources on the internet about the issue, and there has been some talk on the BMW technician site that affected vehicles tended to be cars that were going on extremely long oil change intervals. My 4 oil changes covered by BMW service were at 8,000 mile each (recommended was 10,000 miles) and now that I don't get free service I plan to do them myself every 5,000 miles.
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      11-01-2017, 02:55 PM   #42
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Awesome, was not aware of this. Thanks for posting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vader1 View Post
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho....php?t=1098641

Cut and pasted from thread on cars given the extended 7/70 warranty for timing chain issues:

The lateat ELW shows the affected units are as follows. This is a long list of cars!

E84 X1 s/xDrive 28i N20: 6/12 - 2/15
E89 Z4 sDrive N20: 6/11 - 2/15
F10 528i/x N20: 8/11 -2 /15
F22 228i Coupe N20: 7/13 - 2/15
F22 228i/x Coupe N26: 10/14 -2/15
F22 228ix Coupe N20: 6/14 - 2/15
F23 228i/x vert N20: 10/14 - 2/15
F25 X3 xDrive 28i N20: 3/12 - 2/15
F25 X3 sDrive 28i N20: 3/14 - 2/15
F26 X4 xDrive 28i N20: 3/14 - 2/15
F30 320i/x N20: 2/13 - 2/15
F30 328i N20: 6/11 - 2/15
F30 328ix N2/N260: 6/12 - 2/15
F30 328i N26: 2/12 - 2/15
F31 328i xDrive wagon N20: 12/12 - 2/15
F32 428i Coupe N20: 6/13 - 2/15
F32 428ix Coupe N20: 3/13 - 2/15
F32 428i/x Coupe N26: 7/13 - 2/15
F33 428i vert N20: 10/13 - 2/15
F33 428ix vert N20: 2/14 - 2/15
F33 428i vert N26: 11/13 - 2/15
F33 428ix vert N26: 2/14 - 2/15
F34 328ix GT N20: 6/13 - 2/15
F34 328ix GT N26: 6/14 - 2/15
F36 428i GC N20: 2/14 - 2/15
F36 428ix GC N20: 3/14 - 2/15
F36 328i/x GC N26: 414 - 2/15
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      11-01-2017, 03:30 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vader1 View Post
If I am correct, the timing chain tensioner is partially driven by oil pressure, so the chain will be "looser" when the engine is not running by design. What they are looking for is the noise. If you do not have the noise they will not look to replace it, but you should be covered to 7/70 now with the warranty extension.

My car is now covered until September of 2020 so that gives me peace of mind to keep it for several years if I choose without worrying about it. But also keep in mind, failure rate is extremely low if you follow the many sources on the internet about the issue, and there has been some talk on the BMW technician site that affected vehicles tended to be cars that were going on extremely long oil change intervals. My 4 oil changes covered by BMW service were at 8,000 mile each (recommended was 10,000 miles) and now that I don't get free service I plan to do them myself every 5,000 miles.
Ah, I've noticed that my chain is tight regularly and only sometimes (regardless of if the engine is cold or hot) its loose in one section leading me to believe i have a partial stretch as in 1-2 links of the chain are longer than the rest.

And I was unaware of the 7/70 info! Thanks! Time to hound my dealer for some fixes :P
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      11-01-2017, 03:36 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattwong92 View Post
Ah, I've noticed that my chain is tight regularly and only sometimes (regardless of if the engine is cold or hot) its loose in one section leading me to believe i have a partial stretch as in 1-2 links of the chain are longer than the rest.

And I was unaware of the 7/70 info! Thanks! Time to hound my dealer for some fixes :P
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