F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N20, N26, B46, B48 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > N20 GFB DV+ installed without moving or touching the turbo! +quick tutorial
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-05-2018, 06:22 PM   #67
BunkerJ
Colonel
BunkerJ's Avatar
1006
Rep
2,382
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilivas View Post
Honestly, man. Iím not trying to be hostile. I do disagree and thatís fine. We donít have to agree. Iíve been doing the car thing for a long time and it happens on car forums all the time.

I just bought this f32 as my daily a few weeks ago, but I have supercharged/cam/meth c7 corvette as my ďfast carĒ and before that I had a built motor sti with precision 6265 turbo which was self tuned and built. Iím not new to the game, just new to this car.
No, I understand and can tell. It's just with these cars, the ECU is what controls it and technically the spring if you consider the stiffness the control. Unless it were changed in a tune, it's really good about ensuring there isn't any surging.
__________________

2013 F30 328i: MHI Big Turbo, GFB DV+, Mishimoto CAI, ER TIC/CP/Catless DP, AWE Touring Quad Exhaust w/ Resonated Midpipe, NGK LI Plugs, BM3 with PTF Stage 2 91 AGG Tune, Fuel-it Stage 2 LPFP, Solowerks S1 Coilovers, and DEPO/M-Sport Retrofit
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2018, 08:19 PM   #68
Solidjake
Į\_(ツ)_/Į
Solidjake's Avatar
Poland
490
Rep
1,105
Posts

Drives: '13 328i Msport 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NYC/Philly

iTrader: (2)

BunkerJ Does the flutter sound come in also on load? Can you make a vid of the sound while driving? (maybe put your phone or camera in the engine bay to get the best sound. Thanks
__________________
Tensioner/belt DIY | Side skirt extension DIY

Apex SM-10/PSS | 400m/X-ice Xi3 | Injen Intake/Exhaust
Stoptech SS Lines | 335 Brakes | Hawk HPS 5.0 | RBF600
Bootmod3 Stg 1 93 | ER Charge Pipes | Wagner Evo Comp 2 FMIC
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2018, 08:31 PM   #69
BunkerJ
Colonel
BunkerJ's Avatar
1006
Rep
2,382
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidjake View Post
BunkerJ Does the flutter sound come in also on load? Can you make a vid of the sound while driving? (maybe put your phone or camera in the engine bay to get the best sound. Thanks
No, it doesn't. Low RPM/Boost only. See first page for my video.
__________________

2013 F30 328i: MHI Big Turbo, GFB DV+, Mishimoto CAI, ER TIC/CP/Catless DP, AWE Touring Quad Exhaust w/ Resonated Midpipe, NGK LI Plugs, BM3 with PTF Stage 2 91 AGG Tune, Fuel-it Stage 2 LPFP, Solowerks S1 Coilovers, and DEPO/M-Sport Retrofit
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2018, 08:33 PM   #70
Solidjake
Į\_(ツ)_/Į
Solidjake's Avatar
Poland
490
Rep
1,105
Posts

Drives: '13 328i Msport 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NYC/Philly

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BunkerJ View Post
No, it doesn't. Low RPM/Boost only. See first page for my video.
Yup I did see it, just wanted to confirm for driving with load
__________________
Tensioner/belt DIY | Side skirt extension DIY

Apex SM-10/PSS | 400m/X-ice Xi3 | Injen Intake/Exhaust
Stoptech SS Lines | 335 Brakes | Hawk HPS 5.0 | RBF600
Bootmod3 Stg 1 93 | ER Charge Pipes | Wagner Evo Comp 2 FMIC
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2018, 08:39 PM   #71
BunkerJ
Colonel
BunkerJ's Avatar
1006
Rep
2,382
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidjake View Post
Yup I did see it, just wanted to confirm for driving with load
I get it much less when under load and really only if I cut it before 3k RPM, otherwise it doesn't flutter. Much harder with the bigger turbo. If someone with the stock turbo gets flutter, they could do it for sure.
__________________

2013 F30 328i: MHI Big Turbo, GFB DV+, Mishimoto CAI, ER TIC/CP/Catless DP, AWE Touring Quad Exhaust w/ Resonated Midpipe, NGK LI Plugs, BM3 with PTF Stage 2 91 AGG Tune, Fuel-it Stage 2 LPFP, Solowerks S1 Coilovers, and DEPO/M-Sport Retrofit
Appreciate 0
      04-10-2018, 05:48 PM   #72
ilivas
First Lieutenant
80
Rep
305
Posts

Drives: 428
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

How much louder is this than the stock one? I installed an Injen intake expecting to the DV to be super loud. Itís definitely louder, but not what I had in mind.

I even left the cover off the intake.

Last edited by ilivas; 04-10-2018 at 06:09 PM..
Appreciate 0
      04-10-2018, 06:23 PM   #73
BunkerJ
Colonel
BunkerJ's Avatar
1006
Rep
2,382
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilivas View Post
How much louder is this than the stock one? I installed an Injen intake expecting to the DV to be super loud. Itís definitely louder, but not what I had in mind.

I even left the cover off the intake.
It's the same noise, if not quieter at sometimes. You will get some valve flutter, which is nice to hear. I wouldn't expect it to be louder.
__________________

2013 F30 328i: MHI Big Turbo, GFB DV+, Mishimoto CAI, ER TIC/CP/Catless DP, AWE Touring Quad Exhaust w/ Resonated Midpipe, NGK LI Plugs, BM3 with PTF Stage 2 91 AGG Tune, Fuel-it Stage 2 LPFP, Solowerks S1 Coilovers, and DEPO/M-Sport Retrofit
Appreciate 0
      04-11-2018, 12:33 AM   #74
ilivas
First Lieutenant
80
Rep
305
Posts

Drives: 428
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BunkerJ View Post
It's the same noise, if not quieter at sometimes. You will get some valve flutter, which is nice to hear. I wouldn't expect it to be louder.
Iíve been driving around all day, itís starting to grow on me.
Appreciate 0
      04-11-2018, 10:39 AM   #75
Solidjake
Į\_(ツ)_/Į
Solidjake's Avatar
Poland
490
Rep
1,105
Posts

Drives: '13 328i Msport 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NYC/Philly

iTrader: (2)

BunkerJ ilivas

I sent this to GDP and their response

Quote:
Hey guys. I purchased the T9357 DV+ for my 2013 BMW 328i N20. I'm ready to install but there has been discussion on the forum that this created compressor surge. can you please shed some light on this.
and the forum link http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1482708
Their reply
Quote:
Hi Jake,



The surge in this video is not correct, that is showing you that the DV+ is not working as it should. 99 times out of 100, it is because the factory solenoid (which you are reusing when fitting the T9357) has failed. We have sold thousands of these with no issue, so if there was an issue with our products, we would definitely know about it and rectify the issue. Basically if you fit the DV+ and it sounds like this, look further into it. The only way the DV+ could be responsible for this is if the piston was jammed shut, which is really not possible as each body is matched to a specific piston diameter before they are boxed and sent out. Hope this helps somewhat. Let me know if you have further questions.



Regards, Jonathan



Jonathan Tsiklas | Mechatronics Engineer

Go Fast Bits
No 2, Norman Street, Peakhurst 2210

T +61 2 9534 0099 | F +61 2 9534 3999

E jonathan.tsiklas@gfb.com.au | W www.gfb.com.au
__________________
Tensioner/belt DIY | Side skirt extension DIY

Apex SM-10/PSS | 400m/X-ice Xi3 | Injen Intake/Exhaust
Stoptech SS Lines | 335 Brakes | Hawk HPS 5.0 | RBF600
Bootmod3 Stg 1 93 | ER Charge Pipes | Wagner Evo Comp 2 FMIC
Appreciate 0
      04-11-2018, 11:29 AM   #76
BunkerJ
Colonel
BunkerJ's Avatar
1006
Rep
2,382
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidjake View Post
BunkerJ ilivas

I sent this to GDP and their response



Their reply
I'm going to email it because that makes zero sense. You framed the question incorrectly stating that this WAS compressor surge. What also doesn't make sense is that I have had this on both of my turbos, one of which is a brand new solenoid. Secondly, they clearly state that flutter is normal. So either they're going back on their word or he was severely misled by the wording of your question.
__________________

2013 F30 328i: MHI Big Turbo, GFB DV+, Mishimoto CAI, ER TIC/CP/Catless DP, AWE Touring Quad Exhaust w/ Resonated Midpipe, NGK LI Plugs, BM3 with PTF Stage 2 91 AGG Tune, Fuel-it Stage 2 LPFP, Solowerks S1 Coilovers, and DEPO/M-Sport Retrofit
Appreciate 0
      04-11-2018, 11:42 AM   #77
BunkerJ
Colonel
BunkerJ's Avatar
1006
Rep
2,382
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidjake View Post
BunkerJ ilivas

I sent this to GDP and their response



Their reply
Another GFB response regarding flutter from another user. I sent off my email to completely clear the air as well. Probably won't get a response till tomorrow.


User:
Sometimes while only boosting a couple PSI or accelerating while still in vacuum and then coming off the accelerator there is a flutter noise. Before everyone get's there panties in a bunch THIS IS NOT COMPRESSOR SURGE.

The flutter is due to the way the DV+ operates and is normal.

Here is GFB's response to the flutter noise:


GFB:
We recommend using the main spring unless there is a reason not to, so that throttle response is optimized, since thatís one of the key reasons to replace the factory valve (as well as longevity and boost-holding). As the tech article explains, the turbo will make a different sound under certain conditions at low RPM (only noticeable with an aftermarket intake), which is not compressor surge and is not harmful to the turbo or engine, but nonetheless some people may not like it. In that case, removing the spring will make the DV+ behave like the factory valve, so the different noise will be gone.

The boost pressure and turbo are fairly irrelevant as far as the main spring go. You could potentially say as a blanket rule to the guys with a DSG gearbox that they can install the DV+ without the spring, because throttle response on gearshift is much less important than it is to the manual guys. Personally however, Iíd always take the opportunity to improve throttle response by installing the spring and taking it out if necessary, rather than not installing it and never knowing potentially what Iím missing. Thatís really the whole point of modifying something. Thereís absolutely no harm in trying it Ė the worst that will happen is you donít like the noise in which case you take it out.
__________________

2013 F30 328i: MHI Big Turbo, GFB DV+, Mishimoto CAI, ER TIC/CP/Catless DP, AWE Touring Quad Exhaust w/ Resonated Midpipe, NGK LI Plugs, BM3 with PTF Stage 2 91 AGG Tune, Fuel-it Stage 2 LPFP, Solowerks S1 Coilovers, and DEPO/M-Sport Retrofit
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2018, 09:15 AM   #78
ChubbyWilly
First Lieutenant
ChubbyWilly's Avatar
United_States
87
Rep
304
Posts

Drives: 2009 BMW 335i FBO
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: DFW

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BunkerJ View Post
Please excuse the dirty engine bay and my voice lol. It was the one video I took so far and was trying to make sure it wasn't a fluke in the install.

Pardon me if someone already mentioned this but.. that is the sound a fake DV+ makes. Where did you buy yours from? Budy of mine had a fake one and a real one to show me.
__________________
Mods: MHD Stage 2+ 93oct, Phoenix Racing FMIC, BMS Dual Cone Intakes, Catless DPs, Secondary Cat Dels, H&R Super Sport Springs, VRSF Charge Pipe.
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2018, 10:04 AM   #79
BunkerJ
Colonel
BunkerJ's Avatar
1006
Rep
2,382
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChubbyWilly View Post
Pardon me if someone already mentioned this but.. that is the sound a fake DV+ makes. Where did you buy yours from? Budy of mine had a fake one and a real one to show me.
The DV+ is 100% real and bought from a reputable dealer. Hell, even then I checked to make sure.

While I can't say a fake DV+ will make this sound, the real DV+ will also make this sound and it's not incorrect. I don't want to sit here and type out the exact reasoning of how this thing works again, but I will say again: If you get flutter under low throttle, low boost, low RPM, you name it, this is completely NORMAL. If you are receiving flutter in the higher RPM range, under high boost, or even while you're still on the gas, then yes, this is wrong and actually compressor surge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidjake View Post
BunkerJ ilivas

I sent this to GDP and their response



Their reply
Regarding the email above, I was correct in saying that the question and lack of information led Jonathan astray. I took it upon myself to email him with the full details, as explained in this thread, and guess what: I got the correct response. Not trying to rip on you, but this just goes to show that you must be specific in how you phrase a question and make sure to provide the correct details; otherwise, we clutter the thread with... Dare I say it? Fake news? Lol. Here is the response from Jonathan:

Quote:
Hi Justin!



Thanks for contacting us, we are always here to help. A vital bit of information I was missing was that the surging was not there in the higher RPM range. If it was doing this in the high RPM range, then this would definitely be a concern, so the fact that itís only surging at light load really isnít a concern for the turbochargerís safety. What needs to be understood too is that the ECU is controlling all the operation of the valve, and essentially the DV+ works as a slave to the ECU signal. Some vehicles ECUís simply do not trigger their valves till certain RPM/loads have been met. So do not worry because none of your setup is in threat of its safety 😊



Let me know your thoughts.





Regards, Jonathan



Jonathan Tsiklas | Mechatronics Engineer

Go Fast Bits
No 2, Norman Street, Peakhurst 2210

T +61 2 9534 0099 | F +61 2 9534 3999

E jonathan.tsiklas@gfb.com.au | W www.gfb.com.au

Description: Logo thumbnail
__________________

2013 F30 328i: MHI Big Turbo, GFB DV+, Mishimoto CAI, ER TIC/CP/Catless DP, AWE Touring Quad Exhaust w/ Resonated Midpipe, NGK LI Plugs, BM3 with PTF Stage 2 91 AGG Tune, Fuel-it Stage 2 LPFP, Solowerks S1 Coilovers, and DEPO/M-Sport Retrofit
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2018, 10:16 AM   #80
ChubbyWilly
First Lieutenant
ChubbyWilly's Avatar
United_States
87
Rep
304
Posts

Drives: 2009 BMW 335i FBO
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: DFW

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BunkerJ View Post
The DV+ is 100% real and bought from a reputable dealer. Hell, even then I checked to make sure.
Did you buy it directly from GFB? I can't find the manual for DV+ i've seen but even they said that a flutter sound is not right. It should make a swoosh sound all the time.
__________________
Mods: MHD Stage 2+ 93oct, Phoenix Racing FMIC, BMS Dual Cone Intakes, Catless DPs, Secondary Cat Dels, H&R Super Sport Springs, VRSF Charge Pipe.
Appreciate 1
      04-12-2018, 10:54 AM   #81
BunkerJ
Colonel
BunkerJ's Avatar
1006
Rep
2,382
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChubbyWilly View Post
Did you buy it directly from GFB? I can't find the manual for DV+ i've seen but even they said that a flutter sound is not right. It should make a swoosh sound all the time.
No, I did not.

Did you fail to read my last post or any others that I made in this thread?
__________________

2013 F30 328i: MHI Big Turbo, GFB DV+, Mishimoto CAI, ER TIC/CP/Catless DP, AWE Touring Quad Exhaust w/ Resonated Midpipe, NGK LI Plugs, BM3 with PTF Stage 2 91 AGG Tune, Fuel-it Stage 2 LPFP, Solowerks S1 Coilovers, and DEPO/M-Sport Retrofit
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2018, 01:58 PM   #82
ilivas
First Lieutenant
80
Rep
305
Posts

Drives: 428
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

He did say it was surging at light load. Itís probably not serious to the turbo, but itís still surge.
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2018, 02:19 PM   #83
BunkerJ
Colonel
BunkerJ's Avatar
1006
Rep
2,382
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilivas View Post
He did say it was surging at light load. Itís probably not serious to the turbo, but itís still surge.
Meh, I'm over surging at this point. Too many flip-flop answer from GFB on confirming it's surge or confirming it's not. I take it as non-harmful to the turbo and pin it there.

But regardless, confirmed several times as noted that the noise is normal.
__________________

2013 F30 328i: MHI Big Turbo, GFB DV+, Mishimoto CAI, ER TIC/CP/Catless DP, AWE Touring Quad Exhaust w/ Resonated Midpipe, NGK LI Plugs, BM3 with PTF Stage 2 91 AGG Tune, Fuel-it Stage 2 LPFP, Solowerks S1 Coilovers, and DEPO/M-Sport Retrofit
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2018, 04:14 PM   #84
ilivas
First Lieutenant
80
Rep
305
Posts

Drives: 428
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BunkerJ View Post
Meh, I'm over surging at this point. Too many flip-flop answer from GFB on confirming it's surge or confirming it's not. I take it as non-harmful to the turbo and pin it there.

But regardless, confirmed several times as noted that the noise is normal.
A little surge isnít going to hurt much. There are some cars that run around with no blow off valve at all and get full on and constant compressor surge.

I had a super heavy spring in my STI blow off valve because I needed it to hold boost at 42psi. The drawback is it wouldnít open at lower boost and partial throttle because the spring was so stiff. Turbo lasted quite a while.

Last edited by ilivas; 04-12-2018 at 04:20 PM..
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2018, 08:28 PM   #85
ilivas
First Lieutenant
80
Rep
305
Posts

Drives: 428
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

Does the stock one leak after increasing boost? I ordered one. I saw that with the n55 charge pipes, you can get them with tial flanges for tial bovs. I wish they had them for this.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2018, 01:24 AM   #86
BunkerJ
Colonel
BunkerJ's Avatar
1006
Rep
2,382
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilivas View Post
Does the stock one leak after increasing boost? I ordered one. I saw that with the n55 charge pipes, you can get them with tial flanges for tial bovs. I wish they had them for this.
They can. Similar to the stock CP, they have a chance. Mine was leaking some around 85k. That was about 20k of +4-6PSI over stock
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2018, 01:29 PM   #87
ilivas
First Lieutenant
80
Rep
305
Posts

Drives: 428
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BunkerJ View Post
They can. Similar to the stock CP, they have a chance. Mine was leaking some around 85k. That was about 20k of +4-6PSI over stock
I wasnít sure if it just wasnít able to hold higher pressures. The stock STI valves wonít hold more than 20psi before it starts leaking. The spring was too weak
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2018, 04:23 PM   #88
BunkerJ
Colonel
BunkerJ's Avatar
1006
Rep
2,382
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilivas View Post
I wasnít sure if it just wasnít able to hold higher pressures. The stock STI valves wonít hold more than 20psi before it starts leaking. The spring was too weak
Ah, gotcha. Yeah, spring can take it, but you risk tearing the diaphragm on these ones.
__________________

2013 F30 328i: MHI Big Turbo, GFB DV+, Mishimoto CAI, ER TIC/CP/Catless DP, AWE Touring Quad Exhaust w/ Resonated Midpipe, NGK LI Plugs, BM3 with PTF Stage 2 91 AGG Tune, Fuel-it Stage 2 LPFP, Solowerks S1 Coilovers, and DEPO/M-Sport Retrofit
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:14 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST