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      10-14-2019, 09:00 PM   #1
IraHayes
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Blackstone Report; Liquimoly Molygen 5w-40

Hello everyone.

As some of you know, I've chosen to run a few different brands of oil to decide which will be the one I stick with. The first time around I used Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w-40 (you can see the original analysis here)

For round two, I used Liquimoly Molygen, also in 5w-40, the results of which I received today and have posted here below. Both analyses are on this latest report; LM is in the first/left column, Pennzoil in the next, with averages in between. I'm currently running Amsoil 5w-40 European. Based on the results of that third and final analysis, I will decide which one of the three will be my regular fill. I follow a ~6k mile OCI.

Hope y'all find the info useful.
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File Type: pdf 328I-190930 LM copy.pdf (114.9 KB, 399 views)

Last edited by IraHayes; 10-14-2019 at 09:15 PM..
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      10-14-2019, 09:06 PM   #2
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Keep us posted, very interested in the results. Just had my 80k oil change. Been changing oil every 5k since 30k when I bought the car.

Have used the following:

Mobil 1 0W40
Liqui Moly Leichtlauf 5W40
BMW Dealer Fill 0W30 (whatever that is)

Trying to decide on my long term choice and wondering if Liqui Moly is worth the premium price and effort to order or if there is something I can pick up easily in a local store.
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      10-15-2019, 08:14 AM   #3
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5K miles on the oil isn't enough to see the durability of the oil. 5K miles can only reveal mechanical problems with the engine (fuel injection issues, abnormal wear issues, bad intake air filtration).
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      10-15-2019, 11:10 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimKden View Post
5K miles on the oil isn't enough to see the durability of the oil. 5K miles can only reveal mechanical problems with the engine (fuel injection issues, abnormal wear issues, bad intake air filtration).
I'm not sure I agree. HTHS, and NOACK volatility tests etc. are done with "fresh" oil. I can't imagine that a manufacture would post data garnered from used oil on their data sheets, as everyone changes their oils at different intervals based on preference and or application. If you mean to say that it's not enough to test the life of the oil, I agree, but I'm not really doing these analyses to test the life of the oil per se. If I wanted to do that, I'd run the tests out to probably 10k miles, and then maybe out to 15k based on the results from the 10k analysis. I'm running them to see which will protect my engine better based on wear metals present, viscosity, and TBN present at my given OCI of 6k.

These two oils are pretty damned close, though based just of the flashpoints and TBN, I think I'd lean toward Pennzoil between these two, as wear metals are pretty close. If TBN is any indication, I'd be inclined to think the Pennzoil will fare better between these two if I were to stretch out my OCI.

All said, I'm really looking forward to the results from the Amsoil I'm currently running. Project Farm on YT recently ran a series of tests on about 20 different oils. Amsoil and Pennzoil came out on top, with Amsoil coming in "1st place." I'm really interested to see what that Analysis shows.
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      10-15-2019, 05:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimKden View Post
5K miles on the oil isn't enough to see the durability of the oil. 5K miles can only reveal mechanical problems with the engine (fuel injection issues, abnormal wear issues, bad intake air filtration).
+1. Not to mention that single pass UOA's aren't useful. UOA's are for trending.
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      10-16-2019, 11:43 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IraHayes View Post
I'm not sure I agree. HTHS, and NOACK volatility tests etc. are done with "fresh" oil. ...........

These two oils are pretty damned close, though based just of the flashpoints and TBN, I think I'd lean toward Pennzoil between these two, as wear metals are pretty close. If TBN is any indication, I'd be inclined to think the Pennzoil will fare better between these two if I were to stretch out my OCI.

All said, I'm really looking forward to the results from the Amsoil I'm currently running. Project Farm on YT recently ran a series of tests on about 20 different oils. Amsoil and Pennzoil came out on top, with Amsoil coming in "1st place." I'm really interested to see what that Analysis shows.
Volatility change from new is a function of how well the fuel delivery is

Wear metals will be similar between oils, the TBN depends on the new oil TBN formulation. Around 8 is average garden variety oils, 12 TBN is the good stuff for long term running. However I am not sure what the TBN for the BMW spec oil is to be. European specs lock in a formulation and don't allow timely improvements to follow the latest technology.

Are you using the European formulation of Amsoil or one of their other oils? Results should be good based on the 40 years I have been using and doing UOA.
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      10-16-2019, 07:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimKden View Post
Volatility change from new is a function of how well the fuel delivery is

Wear metals will be similar between oils, the TBN depends on the new oil TBN formulation. Around 8 is average garden variety oils, 12 TBN is the good stuff for long term running. However I am not sure what the TBN for the BMW spec oil is to be. European specs lock in a formulation and don't allow timely improvements to follow the latest technology.

Are you using the European formulation of Amsoil or one of their other oils? Results should be good based on the 40 years I have been using and doing UOA.
That’s a lot of good info Jim, thank you. I am indeed using the Eurospec 5w-40. This one. Do you have any idea what the starting TBN is for the AMSOIL products you have used?

I’ve gotta say, I’ve read and heard a lot of hype about Amsoil over the years and was very skeptical. As a former mechanic, and one that has worked on my own cars all my life, I am very skeptical about claims made by anyone regarding a product. I’m always inclined to think that if something is being pitched really hard, or has seemingly outlandish claims, it’s gotta be snake oil. I started doing a little research and read a lot of good things about Amsoil, and saw some interesting tests on YouTube as well. The ones that really convinced me to try it were Dan Watson ( he has some great videos on YouTube explaining the different types of motor oils, and differences between the different groups) and also 9th Gen Accord on YT. I figured, what the hell? I’ve got to give this stuff a try.

I will say this, and this is probably true for most of us on this board that do our own maintenance and repairs, or are diehard car guys that are really “in sync” with our cars, but I could tell a difference going from one oil to the other. My engine seemed to run really silky smooth, and quiet on the Pennzoil platinum euro. My car seemed to “like it,” if you will. When I switched to the Liqui Moly, I could tell a difference right away. My engine seemed to be a little more sluggish. Almost like the oil was heavier than a 5w-40. I was a little disappointed to be honest, although based on the UOA it actually did quite well.

When I filled up with Amsoil for my current OCI, I got back that same feeling that I had when I ran the the Pennzoil. Do you have any idea what group that this particular oil I’m using belongs to? When I called them and asked they told me it it is a true, 100% synthetic, but they wouldn’t tell me if it was a group four or five.

Last edited by IraHayes; 10-30-2019 at 04:12 PM..
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      10-17-2019, 06:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimKden View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IraHayes View Post
I'm not sure I agree. HTHS, and NOACK volatility tests etc. are done with "fresh" oil. ...........

These two oils are pretty damned close, though based just of the flashpoints and TBN, I think I'd lean toward Pennzoil between these two, as wear metals are pretty close. If TBN is any indication, I'd be inclined to think the Pennzoil will fare better between these two if I were to stretch out my OCI.

All said, I'm really looking forward to the results from the Amsoil I'm currently running. Project Farm on YT recently ran a series of tests on about 20 different oils. Amsoil and Pennzoil came out on top, with Amsoil coming in "1st place." I'm really interested to see what that Analysis shows.
Volatility change from new is a function of how well the fuel delivery is

Wear metals will be similar between oils, the TBN depends on the new oil TBN formulation. Around 8 is average garden variety oils, 12 TBN is the good stuff for long term running. However I am not sure what the TBN for the BMW spec oil is to be. European specs lock in a formulation and don't allow timely improvements to follow the latest technology.

Are you using the European formulation of Amsoil or one of their other oils? Results should be good based on the 40 years I have been using and doing UOA.
TBN isn't a be all/end all.

Starting TBN is defined by the underlying ACEA specification.

MORE is not better. Over addidized oils can cause problems on modern engines (ex Timing chain wear, poison emissions systems).

Some oils with a high starting TBN experience a faster drop than comparative oils with a lower starting TBN.

Some advanced AW additives do not show up in TBN analysis.

You really want to know the TBN/TAN ratio.

Base oil is not everything. For example there are PAO LL98 oils which cannot meet the performance requirements of LL01. There's no such thing as 100% PAO automotive engine oil because it would harden the seals and cause other issues. It's why all oils are a blend of base oils, AW additives, viscosity index improves, etc.

Shop certs and price.

Oh and if one is concerned about NOACK then buy BMW TPT 5w30. It has a NOACK of 6.

http://pqiadata.org/BMW_5W30.html
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      10-24-2019, 06:05 PM   #9
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Report looks promising. i'm running 5w-40 molygen in my current fill and plan to swap it out at 6k OCI. Perhaps sooner since I'll be running on track this time and am considering running fresh fluids since I'm right at the 5k mark right now on my current fill.
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      10-25-2019, 08:53 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IraHayes View Post
Thatís a lot of good info Jim, thank you. I am indeed using the Eurospec 5w-40. This one. Do you have any idea what the starting TBN is for the AMSOIL products you have used? ...


When I filled up with Amsoil for my current OCI, I got back that same feeling that I had when I ran the the Pennzoil. Do you have any idea what group that this particular oil Iím using belongs to? When I called them and asked they told me it it is a true, 100% synthetic, but they wouldnít tell me if it was a group four or five.
Generally the Amsoil TBN is 11-12 but oils made for the European market specs could be different. Their oils are a group IV oil base except for the XL and OE lines of oils that are group III. They make about 50 different oils for various applications, some have more specific additives for things like rust inhibitors for engines in temporary storage and marine applications. Motorcycle oils have different friction requirements for clutch. The reasons go on and on for different applications. Best to refer to their on line application guide.

There will be more comparison tests published of their oil against popular competitors. These will always be done to an ASTM standard test, not a home grown test. At one time competitors griped openly but shut up when challenged, Red Line and Penzoil were a couple.
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      11-08-2019, 05:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IraHayes View Post
Thatís a lot of good info Jim, thank you. I am indeed using the Eurospec 5w-40. This one. Do you have any idea what the starting TBN is for the AMSOIL products you have used?

Iíve gotta say, Iíve read and heard a lot of hype about Amsoil over the years and was very skeptical. As a former mechanic, and one that has worked on my own cars all my life, I am very skeptical about claims made by anyone regarding a product. Iím always inclined to think that if something is being pitched really hard, or has seemingly outlandish claims, itís gotta be snake oil. I started doing a little research and read a lot of good things about Amsoil, and saw some interesting tests on YouTube as well. The ones that really convinced me to try it were Dan Watson ( he has some great videos on YouTube explaining the different types of motor oils, and differences between the different groups) and also 9th Gen Accord on YT. I figured, what the hell? Iíve got to give this stuff a try.

I will say this, and this is probably true for most of us on this board that do our own maintenance and repairs, or are diehard car guys that are really ďin syncĒ with our cars, but I could tell a difference going from one oil to the other. My engine seemed to run really silky smooth, and quiet on the Pennzoil platinum euro. My car seemed to ďlike it,Ē if you will. When I switched to the Liqui Moly, I could tell a difference right away. My engine seemed to be a little more sluggish. Almost like the oil was heavier than a 5w-40. I was a little disappointed to be honest, although based on the UOA it actually did quite well.

When I filled up with Amsoil for my current OCI, I got back that same feeling that I had when I ran the the Pennzoil. Do you have any idea what group that this particular oil Iím using belongs to? When I called them and asked they told me it it is a true, 100% synthetic, but they wouldnít tell me if it was a group four or five.
I havenít tried Amsoil but I had the exact same experience with the Pennzoil Platinum Euro vs Liqui Moly High Tech. There was a noticeable difference in idle and driving smoothness. Iím not sure if thatís the right word but you all get it. I gained a few MPGs as well. My previous car (16 WRX) had the same reaction when I swapped it to the US version Pennzoil Ultra Platinum. It never ran better. Iím going to try Molygen for at some point but chances are Iíll be sticking with the Pennzoil

Last edited by Axis527; 11-08-2019 at 05:51 PM.. Reason: Grammar and clarity
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      10-08-2020, 11:31 AM   #12
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Hey OP, any updates on this? Currently running Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w30 but thinking about switching over to Molygen 5w40.
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      10-08-2020, 11:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
Keep us posted, very interested in the results. Just had my 80k oil change. Been changing oil every 5k since 30k when I bought the car.

Have used the following:

Mobil 1 0W40
Liqui Moly Leichtlauf 5W40
BMW Dealer Fill 0W30 (whatever that is)

Trying to decide on my long term choice and wondering if Liqui Moly is worth the premium price and effort to order or if there is something I can pick up easily in a local store.
I see no need in using anything other than M1 0w-40 or Castrol Edge 0w-40 that I can pick up from Walmart for $25/5 quarts.

My stock N55 has 135,000 miles on it and significant time on the track.

Is Liqui Moly 5w-40 going to let me engine last 300,000 miles instead of 200,000? Who cares at that point. It would be a 10 year old track car at that point.
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      10-09-2020, 07:25 AM   #14
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After making the change from BMW oil to Molygen my mileage went up by 2MPG. That's reason enough for me to spend the extra $10 for it.
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      10-09-2020, 11:47 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
Keep us posted, very interested in the results. Just had my 80k oil change. Been changing oil every 5k since 30k when I bought the car.

Have used the following:

Mobil 1 0W40
Liqui Moly Leichtlauf 5W40
BMW Dealer Fill 0W30 (whatever that is)

Trying to decide on my long term choice and wondering if Liqui Moly is worth the premium price and effort to order or if there is something I can pick up easily in a local store.
I see no need in using anything other than M1 0w-40 or Castrol Edge 0w-40 that I can pick up from Walmart for $25/5 quarts.

My stock N55 has 135,000 miles on it and significant time on the track.

Is Liqui Moly 5w-40 going to let me engine last 300,000 miles instead of 200,000? Who cares at that point. It would be a 10 year old track car at that point.
Agree. Everyone has their own flavor. For example in my climate I prefer oils with a smaller viscosity spread but that's my own internal bias talking.
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      10-09-2020, 09:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Agree. Everyone has their own flavor. For example in my climate I prefer oils with a smaller viscosity spread but that's my own internal bias talking.
I will say that it seems like my engine "drinks" a bit more M1 0w-40 at the track compared to Castrol Edge 0w-40.
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      10-10-2020, 08:34 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Agree. Everyone has their own flavor. For example in my climate I prefer oils with a smaller viscosity spread but that's my own internal bias talking.
I will say that it seems like my engine "drinks" a bit more M1 0w-40 at the track compared to Castrol Edge 0w-40.
Ya. When LL01 was the only spec it wasn't uncommon to hear about some oil consumption when owners went from a 5w30 to M1 0w40. Castrol 0w30 aka Belgium Castrol was the favorite LL01 at the time.

Of course back then although Castrol didn't sell 0w40 in the US it was sold in Europe (BMW branded 0w40) and users also mentioned oil consumption.
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