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      10-15-2019, 01:16 PM   #1
thejeremyman9
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Resetting Adaptations - Pros/Cons/Concerns?

I have been chasing boost below target issues with MHD stage 1, as i describe in some detail here with lots of logs: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...postcount=3487

After emailing MHD, they said i should reset all adaptations (except battery). I am wondering if anyone else has been given this advice?

I am also wondering if anyone has experienced any negative side effects from resetting adaptations. The car drives completely fine right now, just does not reach boost targets (yes, checked for boost leaks, etc). The last thing i want to do is make it worse by resetting adaptations...

I read some threads about throttle reset, but did not get any hits about resetting all adaptations.

Any input/experiences with adaptations reset is appreciated. Thanks
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      10-15-2019, 01:21 PM   #2
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Youll break something, dont do it!

Its fine, its no big deal at all. Just do it, delete this post and move on.
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      10-16-2019, 08:17 AM   #3
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bm3 user here but I've reset adaptations several times with no issues. Also any time you flash adaptations are reset automatically.
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      10-16-2019, 09:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaredG_F30 View Post
bm3 user here but I've reset adaptations several times with no issues. Also any time you flash adaptations are reset automatically.
Are you sure adaptations are reset with a flash? If that's the case, it wouldn't make sense why MHD asked me to reset after just flashing. Also, the MHD instructions specifically say no need to reset adaptations after just a flash (which to me implies they are not reset with the flash itself).

In any case, I reset all adaptations (except battery) as suggested by MHD, cleared all codes, etc (i only had a code from when i plugged my MAF trying to do boost leak test). I drove the car normally for about 5 miles to let it fully warm up, then drove a few miles going into moderate boost before taking the following logs. It made no change in my logs. I sent these back to MHD but no response yet.

1-4: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/1...=0&data=5-6-25

4th: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/4...a=5-6-16-17-25

4th: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/4...a=5-6-16-17-25

The logs show the same behavior that i described in the MHD thread, and boost follows generally the same curve (i.e. dipping up and down throughout a pull). There is also the same increase in boost around 5000rpm, but does not seem to be any throttle closure in these logs (i was getting ~3% before). I seem to only be close to boost targets after about 5000rpm in 4th gear. In the 1-4 log, boost gets closer and closer to target in the higher gears (presumably due to higher load and more time for turbo to spool).

I am pretty confident i do not have a boost leak, and I would think that if i did, my boost would be the most off target in higher gear and higher boost, follow a flatter curve, and WGDC would be higher. Also, does anyone know what the difference is between "boost target psi" and "boost target ex psi"?
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      10-16-2019, 09:27 PM   #5
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Yeah seems like a boost leak, not a huge one though. Why are you so confident it's not that? Did you do a test up to ~15psi?
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      10-16-2019, 09:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine_F30 View Post
Yeah seems like a boost leak, not a huge one though. Why are you so confident it's not that? Did you do a test up to ~15psi?
I couldnt get the tester to work (I posted about it on the thread you originally started i think). It seemed like air was getting past the TB as well as back out of the inlet pipe where the tester was clamped. I am not 100% sure, but as i mentioned in the Oring thread, i completely removed and reinstalled IC+CP using the larger Orings, double checking all connections, etc. Unless the IC itself it leaking... i reget not trying to pressurize that when i had it off. I just cant see any logical point where things can leak now.

Also, i did logs after installing the IC+CP but before flashing and the boost looked almost identical to before i installed the IC+CP:

100% stock:https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/s...=0&data=4-5-19

stock tune, IC+CP installed: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/s...=0&data=4-5-20

Yes, boost is lower than stage 1, but i thought i would see signs of a leak right away.

Also, i'm pretty sure you posted in other threads, including the MHD one, about high WGDC concerns for stage 1 flash. Your logs looked very similar to mine but you were a little closer to boost targets. Did you end up finding a leak? I couldnt really find many other MHD stage 1 tunes to compare mine to.
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      10-16-2019, 10:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Are you sure adaptations are reset with a flash? If that's the case, it wouldn't make sense why MHD asked me to reset after just flashing. Also, the MHD instructions specifically say no need to reset adaptations after just a flash (which to me implies they are not reset with the flash itself).

In any case, I reset all adaptations (except battery) as suggested by MHD, cleared all codes, etc (i only had a code from when i plugged my MAF trying to do boost leak test). I drove the car normally for about 5 miles to let it fully warm up, then drove a few miles going into moderate boost before taking the following logs. It made no change in my logs. I sent these back to MHD but no response yet.

1-4: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/1...=0&data=5-6-25

4th: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/4...a=5-6-16-17-25

4th: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/4...a=5-6-16-17-25

The logs show the same behavior that i described in the MHD thread, and boost follows generally the same curve (i.e. dipping up and down throughout a pull). There is also the same increase in boost around 5000rpm, but does not seem to be any throttle closure in these logs (i was getting ~3% before). I seem to only be close to boost targets after about 5000rpm in 4th gear. In the 1-4 log, boost gets closer and closer to target in the higher gears (presumably due to higher load and more time for turbo to spool).

I am pretty confident i do not have a boost leak, and I would think that if i did, my boost would be the most off target in higher gear and higher boost, follow a flatter curve, and WGDC would be higher. Also, does anyone know what the difference is between "boost target psi" and "boost target ex psi"?
I also dont fully understand the soft/hardware reasons for the turbo to deliver higher boost in higher gears, but it has always been like that - no matter you run BM3, MHD or JB4.
Unless MHD acknowledge that there is an issue and unless you can feel it in the car I would not waste much time on this. Your 1-4 pull look great. How does a stock map pull look?

I checked your stock log and that is also shooting up around 53-5500rpm to match load target.

+1 on the boost leak. 80% wgdc is high on stock boost.
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Last edited by harkes; 10-16-2019 at 10:21 PM..
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      10-16-2019, 11:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harkes View Post
I also dont fully understand the soft/hardware reasons for the turbo to deliver higher boost in higher gears, but it has always been like that - no matter you run BM3, MHD or JB4.
Unless MHD acknowledge that there is an issue and unless you can feel it in the car I would not waste much time on this. Your 1-4 pull look great. How does a stock map pull look?

I checked your stock log and that is also shooting up around 53-5500rpm to match load target.

+1 on the boost leak. 80% wgdc is high on stock boost.
I have been emailing back and forth with MHD since the tune and sent them tons of logs. They suggested the adaptations reset, hence this thread.

Does the 1-4 pull really look normal? Boost seemed way more on target before the tune, but i guess that could just be becuase the target was lower so boost could easily reach the target in the lower gears?

Too bad i have already wasted countless hours on this lol; between reading threads, searching for other peoples logs and staring at my own, trying to make the boost tester, and completely removing and reinstalling everything with larger Orings. Maybe it is just OCD but seeing that boost is a bit off target bothers me and makes me really want to find a reason why. Its like a negative placebo; the car drives completely fine but knowing boost is below target makes it seem worse lol.

When i get some more time i will revise my boost tester to try and make it seal/work. In the meantime i have no issues with the car so i will just continue to drive around as-is with stage 1.

Thanks everyone for the replies.
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      10-17-2019, 07:57 AM   #9
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Just do the reset and then drive it... then do some logs again so you can rule that out.
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      10-17-2019, 08:56 AM   #10
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I'm not sure with MHD, but for bm3 this is the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Are you sure adaptations are reset with a flash? If that's the case, it wouldn't make sense why MHD asked me to reset after just flashing. Also, the MHD instructions specifically say no need to reset adaptations after just a flash (which to me implies they are not reset with the flash itself).

In any case, I reset all adaptations (except battery) as suggested by MHD, cleared all codes, etc (i only had a code from when i plugged my MAF trying to do boost leak test). I drove the car normally for about 5 miles to let it fully warm up, then drove a few miles going into moderate boost before taking the following logs. It made no change in my logs. I sent these back to MHD but no response yet.

1-4: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/1...=0&data=5-6-25

4th: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/4...a=5-6-16-17-25

4th: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/4...a=5-6-16-17-25

The logs show the same behavior that i described in the MHD thread, and boost follows generally the same curve (i.e. dipping up and down throughout a pull). There is also the same increase in boost around 5000rpm, but does not seem to be any throttle closure in these logs (i was getting ~3% before). I seem to only be close to boost targets after about 5000rpm in 4th gear. In the 1-4 log, boost gets closer and closer to target in the higher gears (presumably due to higher load and more time for turbo to spool).

I am pretty confident i do not have a boost leak, and I would think that if i did, my boost would be the most off target in higher gear and higher boost, follow a flatter curve, and WGDC would be higher. Also, does anyone know what the difference is between "boost target psi" and "boost target ex psi"?
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      10-17-2019, 11:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom10R View Post
Just do the reset and then drive it... then do some logs again so you can rule that out.
I did, the post quoted above are the 3 logs after the reset. So, it is ruled out.

MHD added another person to the email chain and asked them for input. Will see what they say.
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      10-17-2019, 12:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
I did, the post quoted above are the 3 logs after the reset. So, it is ruled out.

MHD added another person to the email chain and asked them for input. Will see what they say.
Who did the install for all your parts?
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      10-17-2019, 01:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchi435i View Post
Who did the install for all your parts?
I did. I have now removed and reinstalled the IC and CP twice. The first time everything seemed to be OK, but the connection from the VRSF CP to VRSC IC was a bit loose. After installing, doing logs on stock tune, then doing logs on stage 1 tune and seeing i was not reaching targets, i did a ton of research on boost leak testing and correct/larger Orings. I ordered the larger Orings (as described here https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...7#post25350827) and removed and reinstalled everything. I am now using a larger Oring on the CP-IC connection and CP-TB connection. They were much harder to install that way, but the connections felt much tighter (notably the CP-IC connection which was way too loose/easy with stock Oring, and as i describe there the VRSF CP was much tighter on the stock IC than the VRSF IC with stock Oring, so i can only conclude the VRSF IC was ever so slightly smaller diameter than stock IC).

Anyways, after reinstalling everything with the larger Orings, the logs looked exactly the same. Reset adaptations, logs looked the same.

I also verified everything i could think of when reinstalling:

- Teflon taped and tightened charge pipe plugs
- Inspected the small Orings on 8AT vacuum line and MAP sensor in CP
- Made sure the coupler that joins the CP pieces together was over the lip on both top and bottom and both clamps are very tight
- All clips are in place, etc.

The only thing i did not do was test the IC for leaks, which i regret not doing at this point. I noticed out of the box the IC appeared to have a small defect (along with some bent fins), but i didnt think anything of it. See attached picture below (the "bubble" is not just paint, it is the metal itself).

I did not remove the TIC pipe for this install. I tried to make a boost leak tester was but unsuccessful so far (https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...8#post25343308). I am going to try and revise and redo this when i have time again to be 100% certain on no boost leaks.
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      10-19-2019, 10:36 PM   #14
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Hahah man it's like I'm having deja vu 😂 Well I feel your pain, I also reinstalled my CP like 3x checking and rechecking those damn o-rings and the CP.

Looks like you checked everything I could think of, except maybe making sure the band clamps at the CP bend are VERY tight. I'd use a ratchet and tighten as much as you can with ONE hand (if using both you could easily over tighten/break). I'd guess if you do have a leak it's probably very small and maybe only present over a certain psi if you couldn't spot it while testing.

So re: to the 80% wgdc being high for a Stg 1 tune, that was the main reason I feared a boost leak originally and contacted MHD, they said EWG wastegates work differently and that mine looked perfectly normal (70-80% once WOT 3-4 pull)...take that fwiw.

As for your target / actual boost yeah you're right my logs tended to be closer to the ~1psi difference that's supposedly normal which is why I thought maybe you had a small leak, but honestly I don't know...I'd just guess maybe the leak is super small and that the IC fin damage doesn't look bad enough to be the culprit either but I guess you never know..

I look forward to hearing any updates from you. My logs actually looked a little different recently with my target boost being less than before but I think that may be the colder temperatures, I also changed plugs to NGK 97506 so who knows I've tried to intentionally not overthink it and will reassess once I get aftermarket IC in a month or 2.

Good luck!!!
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