F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N55 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Max Gains on CA 91 Pump Gas?
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-22-2019, 10:06 PM   #1
UCLABruins
New Member
0
Rep
18
Posts

Drives: BMW 435i
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Max Gains on CA 91 Pump Gas?

If I don't wanna deal with the hassle of mixing E85 + 91 to create E30 Gasoline with 93-94 octane, what are the realistic gains of FBO + Stage 2 on CA 91 Gas for an N55 435i Coupe?
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2019, 10:47 PM   #2
thejeremyman9
Private First Class
36
Rep
182
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

I have a 2015 335i and live in SoCal - same situation with crappy gas. I get 100% costco gas FWIW, which i have read is your best bet (very high turnover rate and generally high quality gas to begin with).

Long story short, you are still going to get huge gains over stock. Sure, its not going to be as much as 93+ octane or running an E-mix, but its going to be dramatically different from stock. You can also run boostane if you really want to, but i dont ever plan to do that. I do have an E85 station right around the corner from me so i might experiment with E-mix maps at some point, but not in the near future. Maybe after 2+ and FBO.

I just recently did CP+IC and MHD stage 1 (which is basically the most conservative tune since it can be used on a stock car) and the gains are already quite noticable. I plan to do DP and go to 2+ tune in the relatively near future, just want to feel each stage at a time.
Appreciate 0
      10-23-2019, 12:11 AM   #3
UCLABruins
New Member
0
Rep
18
Posts

Drives: BMW 435i
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
I have a 2015 335i and live in SoCal - same situation with crappy gas. I get 100% costco gas FWIW, which i have read is your best bet (very high turnover rate and generally high quality gas to begin with).

Long story short, you are still going to get huge gains over stock. Sure, its not going to be as much as 93+ octane or running an E-mix, but its going to be dramatically different from stock. You can also run boostane if you really want to, but i dont ever plan to do that. I do have an E85 station right around the corner from me so i might experiment with E-mix maps at some point, but not in the near future. Maybe after 2+ and FBO.

I just recently did CP+IC and MHD stage 1 (which is basically the most conservative tune since it can be used on a stock car) and the gains are already quite noticable. I plan to do DP and go to 2+ tune in the relatively near future, just want to feel each stage at a time.
Exactly what I wanted to hear. Thank you.
Appreciate 0
      10-23-2019, 12:13 AM   #4
ChrisFulton
First Lieutenant
191
Rep
366
Posts

Drives: m235i
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pleasanton, CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UCLABruins View Post
If I don't wanna deal with the hassle of mixing E85 + 91 to create E30 Gasoline with 93-94 octane, what are the realistic gains of FBO + Stage 2 on CA 91 Gas for an N55 435i Coupe?
I'm FBO, MHD 2+, here in crappy Cali 91 land.
I can't tell you in numbers as to the gains, but I can tell you from butt dyno that the gains are HUGE. Totally transforms the car. My m235i is QUICK. The car has also performed really well on the track. I've run boostane on the track but not enough tinkering to tell any difference. I will probably play with e85 for kicks but don't really want to mess with mixing.
A tune with supporting mods makes a huge difference that you will be sure to feel. I've flashed the car back to stock occasionally when I have taken it for service. You get used to the tune and when you go back to stock; it reminds you of just what a dramatic difference there is . . .
Appreciate 0
      10-23-2019, 12:26 AM   #5
ChrisFulton
First Lieutenant
191
Rep
366
Posts

Drives: m235i
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pleasanton, CA

iTrader: (1)

PS . . . Here is a gas station 9 miles from my house.
Prices are now higher. 94 is currently about $6 a gallon.
You can also buy 108, 110, 112 & 118 in 5 gallon containers.

Appreciate 0
      10-23-2019, 12:55 AM   #6
thejeremyman9
Private First Class
36
Rep
182
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFulton View Post
PS . . . Here is a gas station 9 miles from my house.
Prices are now higher. 94 is currently about $6 a gallon.
You can also buy 108, 110, 112 & 118 in 5 gallon containers.

Wow, this gas is a bargin. I only found 1 station even close to me that sells 100 octane at the pump and it is $11+ per gallon. If i had that close to me i would consider mixing some 101 into every tank since my commute it only 5 miles each way.
Appreciate 0
      10-23-2019, 05:56 PM   #7
Bmw doubles
Dream crusher
Bmw doubles's Avatar
United_States
835
Rep
2,241
Posts

Drives: Fast
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: westside

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 535  [0.00]
If you're in Los Angeles 76 on pico and S Barrington has 100oct for 10 bucks a gallon. On San Vincente and S Barrington has e85 for 4 bucks sometimes 3 but depends on the market.
__________________
535i MP Tune, PWG PS2, Wagner FMIC, Spec 3 clutch, Steel SMF, Wolf Racing CP, UUC SSK, GFB dv, SprintBooster, Custom Exhaust, M5 Sways, Eibach OE Springs, Koni Sports Adjustable

IG: @bmwdoubles
Appreciate 0
      10-23-2019, 06:03 PM   #8
bimmer456
Major General
1774
Rep
5,028
Posts

Drives: 340i
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Pasadena, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmw doubles View Post
If you're in Los Angeles 76 on pico and S Barrington has 100oct for 10 bucks a gallon. On San Vincente and S Barrington has e85 for 4 bucks sometimes 3 but depends on the market.
There is a station in Arcadia that sells e85 near Santa Anita and Huntington. Not sure the price. There are a few stations like this in SoCal but they're not that common.
Appreciate 0
      10-23-2019, 06:24 PM   #9
thejeremyman9
Private First Class
36
Rep
182
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
There is a station in Arcadia that sells e85 near Santa Anita and Huntington. Not sure the price. There are a few stations like this in SoCal but they're not that common.
There is a 76 in Costa Mesa/Newport that has 101 octane at the pump for $10-11 per gallon (havent checked recently).

I know several E85 stations because I run that in my 3000gt. Conveniently, there is one right off Bristol and the 405. Last i checked it was under $3 per gallon. That is why I am tempted to just try the OTS full E85 tune that MHD offers - no mixing and pretty cheap (yes i know, ~30% decrease in fuel economy). For reference, i use this for E85 stations and it seems reliable https://e85prices.com/e85map

I think this was the website i originally used to find race gas at the pump: https://www.240turbo.com/Unleaded_Ra..._in_SoCal.html
Appreciate 0
      10-23-2019, 07:20 PM   #10
DreamerJoe
Second Lieutenant
United_States
87
Rep
288
Posts

Drives: 2013 F30 335i
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

I like how this thread turned into where we can find good gas in SoCal.. with that out of the way, there is a 76 in Pasadena with 100 octane, small place though that doesn't look like it has a high turnover. and in San Gabriel/Temple City on Rosemead and Las Tunas they have E-85 for less than $3 (2.85 iirc).

and OP, on pump gas and the right mods/tune your probably looking at 360-400ish to the wheel. I think one of the higher dyno #'s I've seen on here was like 395 or 396.
__________________
Current: ERCatlessDP/A.A.FMIC/ Chargepipe/AFEintake/MHD 2 91 E30/CF kidney,M-mirror caps, trunk lip
Future: Dinan springs, Koni or Bilstein shocks/wheel spacers/pure stage 2/rear brake mod SS lines/B58 HPFP upgrade looks promising
Appreciate 0
      10-24-2019, 01:03 PM   #11
badbread
not good, but bad
United_States
296
Rep
395
Posts

Drives: 2013 335i
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (3)

I and my logs absolutely notice/show a huge difference with straight 91 vs 91 + 3 gallons of E85. If I were to guess I'd say somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-20 HP between the two.
__________________
They are spelled BRAKES not breaks!!!! Oh FFS, not another spark plug thread!
BreadsBMW on Youtube
Appreciate 0
      10-24-2019, 01:27 PM   #12
thejeremyman9
Private First Class
36
Rep
182
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badbread View Post
I and my logs absolutely notice/show a huge difference with straight 91 vs 91 + 3 gallons of E85. If I were to guess I'd say somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-20 HP between the two.
I assume you are using a different tune with straight 91 vs the E-mix? If so, which tunes?
Appreciate 0
      10-24-2019, 04:30 PM   #13
badbread
not good, but bad
United_States
296
Rep
395
Posts

Drives: 2013 335i
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
I assume you are using a different tune with straight 91 vs the E-mix? If so, which tunes?
Negative, same tune (MHD stage 2) but the difference is very apparent with straight 91 and the E85 mix... I probably fill up once a month and can tell without checking my fueling log if I E85'd or not the previous fill up.
__________________
They are spelled BRAKES not breaks!!!! Oh FFS, not another spark plug thread!
BreadsBMW on Youtube
Appreciate 0
      10-24-2019, 05:25 PM   #14
thejeremyman9
Private First Class
36
Rep
182
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badbread View Post
Negative, same tune (MHD stage 2) but the difference is very apparent with straight 91 and the E85 mix... I probably fill up once a month and can tell without checking my fueling log if I E85'd or not the previous fill up.
Interesting... you mean you can tell in the butt dyno and in data logs? I assume this is from less timing being pulled with the straight 91 if you are on the same tune...

I am wondering if the E-mix tunes add additional fueling to compensate for the ethanol, or if they just leave that up to closed loop operation? I don't know enough about the tunes and exactly how the DME is using fuel tables, MAF, MAP, and closed loop O2 operation to make an educated guess. It would be interesting to see if you had a log of straight 91, then a log shortly after with 91+3gal E85, on the same tune, to see if AFRs and fuel trims change. Maybe the mix tunes just add additional timing to take advantage of the higher octane and leave fueling up to the DME.

MHD has full E85 tunes now; have you tried those? I only read about one person in France using them. There was a post from MHD when they first released back in June that "they are the most powerful stage 1 and 2 logs".
Appreciate 0
      10-24-2019, 06:54 PM   #15
badbread
not good, but bad
United_States
296
Rep
395
Posts

Drives: 2013 335i
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (3)

Definitely, without E85 the car feels I don't want to say lifeless but definitely not as lively.

I've tried a lot with my car. I almost always add E85 just to boost the octane. Without E85 my data logs show lots of timing corrections...

I tried the MHD E30 map a while ago (definitely not the current OTS map), and my car wasn't a fan. My fuel pump was crashing and couldn't keep up.

Haven't tried the straight E85 maps either, the car runs so happy on Stage 2 I haven't felt a need to try it yet.

Next time I fill without E85 I'll try to get a good updated 3rd-4th gear log... Gives me an excuse to go have some fun, I also need to see if my spark plugs are getting tired....

** EDIT

Forgot to mention I also tried Stage 2+ with varying levels of E85 and while the car ran pretty good, it didn't run/sound/feel as happy as it does with just the straight stage 2.

Check out my blog, I have some logs up there showing my timing corrections on straight 91 vs E85 mix. Goto myusername .com/howie85 to see them (I'm not allowed to direct link on this site anymore because I have amazon affiliate links...)
__________________
They are spelled BRAKES not breaks!!!! Oh FFS, not another spark plug thread!
BreadsBMW on Youtube

Last edited by badbread; 10-24-2019 at 07:07 PM..
Appreciate 0
      10-24-2019, 11:06 PM   #16
thejeremyman9
Private First Class
36
Rep
182
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badbread View Post
Definitely, without E85 the car feels I don't want to say lifeless but definitely not as lively.

I've tried a lot with my car. I almost always add E85 just to boost the octane. Without E85 my data logs show lots of timing corrections...

I tried the MHD E30 map a while ago (definitely not the current OTS map), and my car wasn't a fan. My fuel pump was crashing and couldn't keep up.

Haven't tried the straight E85 maps either, the car runs so happy on Stage 2 I haven't felt a need to try it yet.

Next time I fill without E85 I'll try to get a good updated 3rd-4th gear log... Gives me an excuse to go have some fun, I also need to see if my spark plugs are getting tired....

** EDIT

Forgot to mention I also tried Stage 2+ with varying levels of E85 and while the car ran pretty good, it didn't run/sound/feel as happy as it does with just the straight stage 2.

Check out my blog, I have some logs up there showing my timing corrections on straight 91 vs E85 mix. Goto myusername .com/howie85 to see them (I'm not allowed to direct link on this site anymore because I have amazon affiliate links...)
I just spent some time poking around your blog. Thanks for the heads up about pearson fuels - the app and the statement about E85 percentage were useful. I actually get E85 right around the corner from where i live from a pearson fuels station for my 3000gt, but did not know about the app (i used a different website). I am still a little skeptical about it be consistenly 83.3%, but thats just because i am a skeptic lol.

I am wondering what you consider a lot of timing corrections? I looked back at some of my logs, and i only see a few timing corrections at the top of 4th gear, up to about -3 degrees. In one of your examples you are getting crazy corrections across all cylinders throughout a pull... i just dont see that in my logs. I am MHD Stage 1, VRSF IC+CP, stock DP and intake. In my most recent 1-4 log, i dont really get anything until the top of 4th. I couldnt find a log where you show before/after adding E85. I am also wondering if you see positive fuel trims with the DME trying to add extra fuel due to the ethanol content.

The Emix maps from MHD are E20 now, probably because E30 was too much. Also, i am EWG and you are PWG, so our cars may respond differently. In any case, good info overall. I may experiment in adding a few gallons of E85 since a station is so close to me, especially after i go stage 2 and add a downpipe. I plan to do that next spring after my service, since i am on stock plugs with 41k miles at the moment.

For reference, here are my most recent logs (yes, i know my boost is below target in the lower RPMs):

4th: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/4...43-44-45-46-47

1-4: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/1...43-44-45-46-47
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2019, 12:14 AM   #17
jgoens
Major General
jgoens's Avatar
3540
Rep
5,727
Posts

Drives: 2013 335i msport
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: San Mateo, CA

iTrader: (0)

Just to chime in...I have run e85 for years...with jb4 and now with MHD E30 maps. I run it for a few weeks and then get lazy and go with 91. I have always found (even with my e90 with JB4) that e85 gave a boost and with my f30 and MHD e30 maps had a pop. But, the last time, about a month ago, I ran e85 and it felt the same as running just 91. So, I switched back to Stage 2+ and 91 and the car feels just as fast with the same jump as running ethanol. Kinda weird. I'm not a noob on this as I have been in the e85 game for 5 years and typically run 4.5 gal, and, sorry not have logged anything. Shit, so busy to even analyze. I'm thinking the blend recently is low, so just running 91 with stage 2 is giving me similar results to when I run e40.
__________________
2013 335i Msport Black sapphire/Coral red. MHD. stage 2--e30 VRSF DP, ER CP, Dinan Shockware. VRSF 12mm/15mm spacers. Cobra dashcam. Various codings.
Last car: 2011 335i Msport. JB4. Vrsf CP
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2019, 01:53 PM   #18
mike@x-ph.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
mike@x-ph.com's Avatar
United_States
10355
Rep
114,412
Posts


Drives: 2007 e92 335i / 2013 F30 328
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Las Vegas

iTrader: (19)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UCLABruins View Post
If I don't wanna deal with the hassle of mixing E85 + 91 to create E30 Gasoline with 93-94 octane, what are the realistic gains of FBO + Stage 2 on CA 91 Gas for an N55 435i Coupe?
We offer custom bootmod3 maps, here are the expected results for the N55

N55 (Stock Turbo)

E30 N55 (Stock Turbo) 410-460whp (Depending on OEM HPFP vs. Aftermarket HPFP)
93 Octane (98RON) N55 (Stock Turbo) 380-420whp (Depending on OEM HPFP vs. Aftermarket HPFP)
91 Octane N55 (Stock Turbo) 360-390whp (Depending on OEM HPFP vs. Aftermarket HPFP)
Race Fuels N55 (Stock Turbo) Depends On Race Fuel Type (100 Oct, MS109, Q16…etc)
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:06 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST