[Beet]

Hello all, I'm very new to this forum and decided to make an account of my own finally after reading many posts from here anonymously over the years.

I'm excited to be picking up a Sapphire Black '18 340i M Sport ZF next week, with only 24k on the clock! CPO car, and sales told me that from their records it was owned by a couple that babied the car and took it in for every minor concern they had. It lived its life in central Florida for those few miles.

I've had a 2018 330i xDrive service loaner for the past 3 years and put 30k miles on it, driving it properly with oil changes done every ~7-8k so this is not my first B series motor.

A few concerns I have, and I'm sorry because I know these topics have probably already been beaten to s*** on here already, so if you have links to other related threads that answer these just post em below.

For one, the car's first oil change was at 11k, second at 21k. I know that these oils have "additives" and can last a while, and if BMW says that every change is at 10-12k, then it must be ok right? I plan on doing it every 6-8k with 0W-30 Liqui Moly.

How extensive is the test they do off the assembly line and do they put fresh oil in there right after those few miles? I had somebody tell me they just put the car on rollers, go through the gears, and likely change the oil after. I'm skeptical though because it seems like they'd lose a lot of money replacing that much oil. I also know that a very small percentage of owners actually do the break-in period and replace the oil after. They want to enjoy their hard earned dollars spent on their Bavarian masterpiece of engineering!

Second, WARRANTY. This has been beaten down everywhere for sure. I'm sorry. From what I've heard, things like coilovers, wheels + tires, ceramic brake pads, spacers, and exhaust mods won't affect the powertrain warranty. BMW just has to prove that it had some relation to the powertrain/brake/whatever failure in order to void your warranty, correct? I'm sure there are many people with true stories to tell on this subject.

I'll have a very good warranty with the car because it's certified, so my plan is to drive it hard and properly (of course when it's at optimal temp) in stock form to maybe sort out any potential issues within the next 10k, but with how these B series motors are built it's probably very unlikely that I'll see anything before 50k.

I really want to do a lot to it. xHP (trans fluid replacement prior), bm3 (bolt ons prior), M Perf LSD, etc.

Thanks for the help, and thanks for reading all that stuff from left to right, left, right!

[thejeremyman9]

Unfortunately BMW did away with the 1200 mile break in oil change except for M cars, so all the people buying these new don't do the oil change until the normal 10k OCI, and particularly for leases, they often push it further given that they know they aren't keeping the car. It's cringy to me to break in an engine and not change the oil and filter, but my car was the same way (bought 2015 335i CPO with ~30k miles). It should be fine, but you never know if there was any accelerated wear, especially if they chose to beat on the car from day 1 without at least trying to break it in even if they didnt change the oil and filter after doing so.

Your description of warranty is accurate, but just note than ANY non-approved mod can potentially cause you problems, even if the chance is low and burden of proof is essentially on BMW. I have had several things covered under CPO warranty while bringing the car in with FBO+tuned, without any issues (oil pan gasket, door lock actuator, driveshaft clip, windshield cowl, etc). I drove my car for a year stock and then proceeded to mod and tune with 1 year left on my CPO warranty. As i said in the other thread recently, if you mod out of warranty, you have no chance of anything getting covered. If you mod in warranty, you at least have a chance of getting something covered. It's not like the tune has less of a chance of causing any problem after your warranty expires.

[erickonphoenix]

Oil changes are factored into the fuel consumption rating on a vehicle so there's incentive to push the oil change intervals farther out. I know it's more expensive but I'd recommend changing it out around 7k miles max.

Also, there is a factory engine break in on the production line before the engine ever gets into the vehicle. So, the owner break in process is to ease the new vehicle systems into performance by keeping stresses off the chassis.

After 35+ years experience owning vehicles the single biggest thing you can do to maintain a reliable operating vehicle is driving it and maintaining it regularly.

[cfm56d7b]

The risk of unexpected mechanical issues appears to be low based on information shared earlier.

I still suggest to perform oil analysis as an insurance policy.

As with all engine mods, "pay to play" is the underlying motto. If anything goes wrong, it will be expensive.

[whatevs]

"I also know that a very small percentage of owners actually do the break-in period and replace the oil after. " - Like you said, only a small %ge do it - the vast majority don't, and the cars are still fine. Ive always bought CPO's and I highly doubt it the prior owners did the break in properly, and Ive never had any issues. Not saying this is alway the case, but point being - dont worry too much especially with the car having only 24K miles on it. As cfm56d7b suggested do an oil analysis for peace of mind.

[Beet]

Originally Posted by whatevs

"I also know that a very small percentage of owners actually do the break-in period and replace the oil after. " - Like you said, only a small %ge do it - the vast majority don't, and the cars are still fine. Ive always bought CPO's and I highly doubt it the prior owners did the break in properly, and Ive never had any issues. Not saying this is alway the case, but point being - dont worry too much especially with the car having only 24K miles on it. As cfm56d7b suggested do an oil analysis for peace of mind.

Yeah, the oil analysis is definitely a good idea. Hadn't thought of that before.

[Beet]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

The risk of unexpected mechanical issues appears to be low based on information shared earlier.

I still suggest to perform oil analysis as an insurance policy.

As with all engine mods, "pay to play" is the underlying motto. If anything goes wrong, it will be expensive.

Thanks for this, I hadn't thought of doing an oil analysis before. That's the best thing for peace of mind. For pay to play, that's a good way of thinking about it. The only real issue I'm worried about on the non-TU B58 motors is the timing chain being in the back of the motor, but I'm guessing that doesn't have to be looked at until 75k+ miles. These motors are solid.

[Beet]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Unfortunately BMW did away with the 1200 mile break in oil change except for M cars, so all the people buying these new don't do the oil change until the normal 10k OCI, and particularly for leases, they often push it further given that they know they aren't keeping the car. It's cringy to me to break in an engine and not change the oil and filter, but my car was the same way (bought 2015 335i CPO with ~30k miles). It should be fine, but you never know if there was any accelerated wear, especially if they chose to beat on the car from day 1 without at least trying to break it in even if they didnt change the oil and filter after doing so.

Your description of warranty is accurate, but just note than ANY non-approved mod can potentially cause you problems, even if the chance is low and burden of proof is essentially on BMW. I have had several things covered under CPO warranty while bringing the car in with FBO+tuned, without any issues (oil pan gasket, door lock actuator, driveshaft clip, windshield cowl, etc). I drove my car for a year stock and then proceeded to mod and tune with 1 year left on my CPO warranty. As i said in the other thread recently, if you mod out of warranty, you have no chance of anything getting covered. If you mod in warranty, you at least have a chance of getting something covered. It's not like the tune has less of a chance of causing any problem after your warranty expires.

Interesting. Also 11k doesn't sound so bad to me now considering the fact that all BMWs used to have 15k intervals. I'm gonna drive it for a while before doing any major mods, just like you.

On the basis of the car potentially being driven hard by the previous owner, doesn't the computer in all new BMWs tell you to get an oil change based on how the car is being driven? If so, that would make sense why the car had it done at 11k. Even if I wasn't a gearhead and my car was clear as day telling me on the screen every time I turned it on to get an oil change, I sure wouldn't let it do that for 1000+ miles.

[tturedraider]

Congrats on the new car! Pics will be required once you take delivery.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Beet

Hello all, I'm very new to this forum and decided to make an account of my own finally after reading many posts from here anonymously over the years.

I'm excited to be picking up a Sapphire Black '18 340i M Sport ZF next week, with only 24k on the clock! CPO car, and sales told me that from their records it was owned by a couple that babied the car and took it in for every minor concern they had. It lived its life in central Florida for those few miles.

I've had a 2018 330i xDrive service loaner for the past 3 years and put 30k miles on it, driving it properly with oil changes done every ~7-8k so this is not my first B series motor.

A few concerns I have, and I'm sorry because I know these topics have probably already been beaten to s*** on here already, so if you have links to other related threads that answer these just post em below.

For one, the car's first oil change was at 11k, second at 21k. I know that these oils have "additives" and can last a while, and if BMW says that every change is at 10-12k, then it must be ok right? I plan on doing it every 6-8k with 0W-30 Liqui Moly.

How extensive is the test they do off the assembly line and do they put fresh oil in there right after those few miles? I had somebody tell me they just put the car on rollers, go through the gears, and likely change the oil after. I'm skeptical though because it seems like they'd lose a lot of money replacing that much oil. I also know that a very small percentage of owners actually do the break-in period and replace the oil after. They want to enjoy their hard earned dollars spent on their Bavarian masterpiece of engineering!

Second, WARRANTY. This has been beaten down everywhere for sure. I'm sorry. From what I've heard, things like coilovers, wheels + tires, ceramic brake pads, spacers, and exhaust mods won't affect the powertrain warranty. BMW just has to prove that it had some relation to the powertrain/brake/whatever failure in order to void your warranty, correct? I'm sure there are many people with true stories to tell on this subject.

I'll have a very good warranty with the car because it's certified, so my plan is to drive it hard and properly (of course when it's at optimal temp) in stock form to maybe sort out any potential issues within the next 10k, but with how these B series motors are built it's probably very unlikely that I'll see anything before 50k.

I really want to do a lot to it. xHP (trans fluid replacement prior), bm3 (bolt ons prior), M Perf LSD, etc.

Thanks for the help, and thanks for reading all that stuff from left to right, left, right!

Great choice in cars and a great find with only 24k miles. Here are my suggestions based on what you wrote:

Don't fixate on past oil history with this car. You can't change it. Two oil changes in 24k miles is typical.

Order a free Blackstone kit now. When you get the car, change the oil and send a sample for a $30 analysis. It's very unlikely to show anything but it will provide you with a baseline for the future. Then change the oil every 3K-5k miles. Use a Mann filter and a high quality BMW LongLife-01 spec oil.

Avoid ceramic brake pads. Average bite and the don't work until they heat up. Best street pads by far are Hawk 5.0.

No reason to do bolt-ons before BootMod3. (Only B58 bolt-on is a free flow catted or catless downpipe which is only required for Stage2 boost levels.) Install BootMod3 Stage1 and enjoy it!

No reason to do the automatic transmission service before xHP. ZF recommends it at 60k miles but you can do it a little earlier if you like. Use the actual ZF Kit from FCP Euro.

M Performance LSD is amazing. I highly recommend it. Unlike BMW's electronic system that doesn't kick in until you have significant rear wheel slippage, the LSD kicks in immediately. Much better hook up off the line and better power and control entering curves.

https://www.getbmwparts.com/oem-part...on-33108659989

Hope this helps!

[Beet]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Congrats on the new car! Pics will be required once you take delivery.

Thank you!! I'll post some pics on this thread after I pick it up next week.

[Beet]

Originally Posted by johnung

Great choice in cars and a great find with only 24k miles. Here are my suggestions based on what you wrote:

Don't fixate on past oil history with this car. You can't change it. Two oil changes in 24k miles is typical.

Order a free Blackstone kit now. When you get the car, change the oil and send a sample for a $30 analysis. It's very unlikely to show anything but it will provide you with a baseline for the future. Then change the oil every 3K-5k miles. Use a Mann filter and a high quality BMW LongLife-01 spec oil.

Avoid ceramic brake pads. Average bite and the don't work until they heat up. Best street pads by far are Hawk 5.0.

No reason to do bolt-ons before BootMod3. (Only B58 bolt-on is a free flow catted or catless downpipe which is only required for Stage2 boost levels.) Install BootMod3 Stage1 and enjoy it!

No reason to do the automatic transmission service before xHP. ZF recommends it at 60k miles but you can do it a little earlier if you like. Use the actual ZF Kit from FCP Euro.

M Performance LSD is amazing. I highly recommend it. Unlike BMW's electronic system that doesn't kick in until you have significant rear wheel slippage, the LSD kicks in immediately. Much better hook up off the line and better power and control entering curves.

https://www.getbmwparts.com/oem-part...on-33108659989

Hope this helps!

I appreciate the advice! I just looked into Blackstone, I'll definitely get the oil analyzed by them.

The only reason I thought of going with ceramics is that my buddy has a workhorse of an E46, a 2001 330xi. He threw some ceramics on there and gets no brake dust, says they're the best thing he's done.

I've heard the ediff shreds the rear pads if you try to do any sort of sliding, which sucks. If only the M Performance LSD wasn't $2300 plus install

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Beet

I appreciate the advice! I just looked into Blackstone, I'll definitely get the oil analyzed by them.

The only reason I thought of going with ceramics is that my buddy has a workhorse of an E46, a 2001 330xi. He threw some ceramics on there and gets no brake dust, says they're the best thing he's done.

I've heard the ediff shreds the rear pads if you try to do any sort of sliding, which sucks. If only the M Performance LSD wasn't $2300 plus install

I understand why people hate the sticky black dust of the BMW pads. It's nasty. But like I said, ceramics just don't perform on the street. The best scenario is to ceramic coat your wheels and install Hawk 5.0 pads. They have superior bite, instant warm up and their dust is light in amount and light in color. It washes right off.

The e-differential works by detecting rear wheel slippage over something like 30%. (MP LSD operates from ~1% to ~19%) Then it applies one of the rear brakes and cuts the throttle if needed. So I've heard of rear pads wearing faster than front pads, depending on how the car is driven. But I don't think it's anything dramatic.

The MP LSD install is about $560 at a dealer. This is one of the few things that I recommend having done at a dealer. I watched mine being installed and documented it with photos. I also helped my buddy through an ordeal with a shop that didn't know what they were doing that destroyed his LSD.

There is not a lot of expertise out there with BMW mechanics in general for swapping out F3x rear differentials. The platform is too new for a lot of differential repairs to have happened. The F-Series differential is much different than an E-Series differential and requires special tools. Not worth trying to save a couple hundred bucks on an LSD install. Better to have the full BMW aftermarket parts warranty and a dealer on the hook for proper installation.

[Beet]

Originally Posted by johnung

I understand why people hate the sticky black dust of the BMW pads. It's nasty. But like I said, ceramics just don't perform on the street. The best scenario is to ceramic coat your wheels and install Hawk 5.0 pads. They have superior bite, instant warm up and their dust is light in amount and light in color. It washes right off.

The e-differential works by detecting rear wheel slippage over something like 30%. (MP LSD operates from ~1% to ~19%) Then it applies one of the rear brakes and cuts the throttle if needed. So I've heard of rear pads wearing faster than front pads, depending on how the car is driven. But I don't think it's anything dramatic.

The MP LSD install is about $560 at a dealer. This is one of the few things that I recommend having done at a dealer. I watched mine being installed and documented it with photos. I also helped my buddy through an ordeal with a shop that didn't know what they were doing that destroyed his LSD.

There is not a lot of expertise out there with BMW mechanics in general for swapping out F3x rear differentials. The platform is too new for a lot of differential repairs to have happened. The F-Series differential is much different than an E-Series differential and requires special tools. Not worth trying to save a couple hundred bucks on an LSD install. Better to have the full BMW aftermarket parts warranty and a dealer on the hook for proper installation.

I'll check out the Hawk pads, from what you're saying they sound pretty good. Those are being sold by ECS tuning so I might pick some up from there.

$560 is a lot better than what I expected it to be tbh. I thought the dealer would charge over a grand for a diff install.

The diff will be changed as soon as I can make it happen. That and coilovers are the most expensive things, but of course, wheels and tires are also a necessity that can break the bank. I plan on getting some ESRs or OZs and wrapping them in PS4Ss for 3 seasons of the year.

I'll get a feel for the stock car and see how stable it is coming out of corners. From what I've heard the ediff is pretty sucky when trying to do longer drifts, but that's to be expected from an open diff that's trying to imitate an actual limited slip.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Beet

I'll check out the Hawk pads, from what you're saying they sound pretty good. Those are being sold by ECS tuning so I might pick some up from there.

$560 is a lot better than what I expected it to be tbh. I thought the dealer would charge over a grand for a diff install.

The diff will be changed as soon as I can make it happen. That and coilovers are the most expensive things, but of course, wheels and tires are also a necessity that can break the bank. I plan on getting some ESRs or OZs and wrapping them in PS4Ss for 3 seasons of the year.

I'll get a feel for the stock car and see how stable it is coming out of corners. From what I've heard the ediff is pretty sucky when trying to do longer drifts, but that's to be expected from an open diff that's trying to imitate an actual limited slip.

From your comments, you sound serious. So here's a mod that you would appreciate. One of the known downsides of the F-Series chassis is the vague steering feel. Most of that is caused by the excessive play in the Upper Control Arm bushings. Guys who track often complain that they don't trust the steering precision as speeds increase.

Swap out your UCAs for these below. They make the steering so much more precise upon both acceleration and braking. Like a different car. No added harshness in the cabin, just improved road feel to the driver's hands through the steering wheel.

Easily one of my top mods for this car!

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

[johnung]

Originally Posted by johnung

From your comments, you sound serious. So here's a mod that you would appreciate. One of the known downsides of the F-Series chassis is the vague steering feel. Most of that is caused by the excessive play in the Upper Control Arm bushings. Guys who track often complain that they don't trust the steering precision as speeds increase.

Swap out your UCAs for these below. They make the steering so much more precise upon both acceleration and braking. Like a different car. No added harshness in the cabin, just improved road feel to the driver's hands through the steering wheel.

Easily one of my top mods for this car!

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

For another one of my top car mods, check out my post below concerning sway bars.

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=27284523

[Beet]

Originally Posted by johnung

For another one of my top car mods, check out my post below concerning sway bars.

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=27284523

I heard a bit about control arm upgrades but didn't get the chance to really look into them too much. Thanks for this! How would you say VAC compares to the M3 control arms, or are they pretty much the same?

Also, sway bars are a fantastic idea. I have a European shop near me and they do everything for these cars. I'm planning on getting everything that I wouldn't bother to do myself at home (suspension/handling upgrades) done there.

[AspektUSA]

I wouldn't fret about oil intervals so much anymore.

Since about 2020, the EPA has further tightened restrictions on sulphur in US gasoline - to the point where it more or less matches whats available in Central Europe.

Cars there run 2yr/24k mi intervals on BMW LL-04 oil (5w-30), which is a slightly thicker version of the LL-14/17 FE+ 0w-20 used in the Bxx series here.

[Beet]

Originally Posted by AspektUSA

I wouldn't fret about oil intervals so much anymore.

Since about 2020, the EPA has further tightened restrictions on sulphur in US gasoline - to the point where it more or less matches whats available in Central Europe.

Cars there run 2yr/24k mi intervals on BMW LL-04 oil (5w-30), which is a slightly thicker version of the LL-14/17 FE+ 0w-20 used in the Bxx series here.

Wow, oil technology is really impressive nowadays. I hadn't considered looking into their intervals in Europe. 24k is unheard of here in the states!

[AspektUSA]

Originally Posted by Beet

Wow, oil technology is really impressive nowadays. I hadn't considered looking into their intervals in Europe. 24k is unheard of here in the states!

Bimmerworld has a pretty comprehensive article on oil:
https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Engine-Oil/

Europe was able to get away with 2yr service intervals as their fuel was better quality, and had far less sulphur than the USA for years.

US sulphur levels should match EU levels at 10ppm or so now: https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/gasoline-sulfur

In the 90s, BMW was replacing engine blocks that had been lined with NikaSil from the factory - as cheap, discount grade higher sulphur fuel was stripping the linings and causing scoring.

Using modern, top tier fuels with modern oils means the forum mythos of the 5k/7.5k mi interval is a thing of the past for normal use.
If you do track days, ECU tunes, or do a 1mi commute in freezing climates (you oil doesn't evaporate the latent humidity in your sump) then you'll need to take a closer look at your oil and what's fit for purpose in your case.

But technically, BMW says LL-01/LL-01 FE/LL 14/17 are what's kosher for the Bxx series in North America.
You can run LL-04 if you want, but do so at your own peril and definitely get a UOA to check that the fuel in your area isn't cashing your oil.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Beet

I heard a bit about control arm upgrades but didn't get the chance to really look into them too much. Thanks for this! How would you say VAC compares to the M3 control arms, or are they pretty much the same?

Also, sway bars are a fantastic idea. I have a European shop near me and they do everything for these cars. I'm planning on getting everything that I wouldn't bother to do myself at home (suspension/handling upgrades) done there.

The VAC's are much better because they are actual stock control arms made by Lemforder who makes them for BMW. So you get a brand new Upper Control arm with a brand new Ball joint on one end and a brand new custom monoball bushing in the other end.

So your suspension geometry remains exactly the same. And your stock alignment specifications stay exactly the same. There are exact matching versions for F30 RWD and F30 xDrive.

F80 M3 Upper Control Arms have a different suspension geometry than F30 UCAs. In fact if you install them on an F3x xDrive, the car won't make it more than a few feet without snapping a front drive shaft.

When M3 UCAs are installed on an F3x RWD they actually push the entire wheel forward in the wheel well and screw up the alignment. Guys who track in the past, have been throwing M3 UCAs on the F3x's to gain greater camber adjustment. But now camber plates will do the same. I've talked the guys with M cars who have been ditching their stock M bushings for these Monoballs, saying there is no comparison.

These VAC UCA's from Kies Motorsports make the vague F3x steering so much more precise. If I was only allowed 3-4 mods on my car this would be one of them!

[Beet]

Originally Posted by AspektUSA

Bimmerworld has a pretty comprehensive article on oil:
https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Engine-Oil/

Europe was able to get away with 2yr service intervals as their fuel was better quality, and had far less sulphur than the USA for years.

US sulphur levels should match EU levels at 10ppm or so now: https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/gasoline-sulfur

In the 90s, BMW was replacing engine blocks that had been lined with NikaSil from the factory - as cheap, discount grade higher sulphur fuel was stripping the linings and causing scoring.

Using modern, top tier fuels with modern oils means the forum mythos of the 5k/7.5k mi interval is a thing of the past for normal use.
If you do track days, ECU tunes, or do a 1mi commute in freezing climates (you oil doesn't evaporate the latent humidity in your sump) then you'll need to take a closer look at your oil and what's fit for purpose in your case.

But technically, BMW says LL-01/LL-01 FE/LL 14/17 are what's kosher for the Bxx series in North America.
You can run LL-04 if you want, but do so at your own peril and definitely get a UOA to check that the fuel in your area isn't cashing your oil.

I'll probably just end up buying 7 quarts of 0W-30 from the dealership then because BMW spec oil is so hard to find (especially 0W-30) unless you're buying it online. I'm not sure about the fuel quality here in CT, but I'll look into it.

That article is pretty informative. It says that LL-14 is BMW's latest, but it's not a good oil for performance. Does that mean they still use LL-01 in the M cars?