[Substance-p]

I could use some feedback from the forum:

I am looking for a small/mid-size sports oriented sedan with AWD and a fun factor to accompany me on a 45 minute one way commute each day. Maybe 1-2 times a week I will have my twin first graders in the back seat and occasionally my wife kids and I will go on short trips together in this car (most of the family driving is in her car).

I have been looking at cars since the start of the summer and had a chance to test drive quite a few yesterday. At the moment, I have it narrowed down to the C43 and the BMW 440i GC with MPPSK. Initial impressions were that I liked the interior styling of the MB better and the exterior styling of the BMW. I preferred iDrive to Command. The rear headroom was great in the C43; however, it's sort of a non-issue b/c it's only ever two children in the back seat.

The driving impressions are harder to compare because I was unable to find a 440i GC with the MPPSK to test-so I only tested the base 440/MSport with 320 HP. I did drive an X3 M40 which I assume is somewhat similar in performance to a 440 with the MPPSK-can anyone confirm that?

Also, the IDrive in the '19 440 was amazing. I have located some '18 CPOs that look like a great deal, is there a big difference in the iDrive between the 18s and the 19s?

[Zanity]

Originally Posted by Substance-p

The driving impressions are harder to compare because I was unable to find a 440i GC with the MPPSK to test-so I only tested the base 440/MSport with 320 HP. I did drive an X3 M40 which I assume is somewhat similar in performance to a 440 with the MPPSK-can anyone confirm that?

I doubt the X3 M40 can compare to 440i GC. I drove a 2019 X2 M35i with the adaptive suspension and it still handled like a boat compare to my 428i with passive M sport suspension. The body roll can't be compared. But if you're talking about acceleration, it's pretty close, and for comfort, the X2/X3 will win hands down.

[ReRe]

I have driven a handful of 340i's with MPPSK (albeit all were rwd) and a couple c43's equipped with the AMG performance exhaust. Despite my personal styling and ergonomic preferences in favor of the BMW, I will admit that the Mercedes is a very exciting car. However, the transmission always felt jerky and clunky to me, and the sound, while subjective, is much more awing with the MPPSK.

If you enjoy an interior that is both logical in its layout, and slightly analog in its presentation. And if you enjoy an exhaust sound that is throaty with blissful backfires and burbles, then you simply cannot go wrong with the 440 GC.

However, if you enjoy a more racey exhaust sound, a little more jerky and punch like shifts, and the luxury often affiliated with the MB brand, the Mercedes is a well respected car. Although the Merc is being facelifted, it will ultimately look newer for longer than the 4 as well.

Hope this helps

[MiguelM3]

I just got a 428GC, and I love it, sports plus is amazing plus the versatility of the hatch back door and being able to lower the rear seat it gives you so much space that almost eliminate the need for SUV, my sister drives a C43 and she says that it feels like a mashmellow compared to he's previous 335

[Mike5215]

Understand that the C43 sedan, like all W205s, is a pretty car to look at with absolutely abysmal build quality. We have a 2016 C300. It creaks, grinds, rattles, buzzes and moans. Mine started at 3k miles and I have the AirMatic suspension and non run flats. On the C43/C63 suspension, much stiffer...almost comically stiffer... meaning more stuff shakes loose. It's not just the base C300 that suffers from rattles. It's a problem right up to the $90k C63s.

The C43 does look great, with the pseudo AMG badging and body kit. On a glass-smooth road they're fun, like driving a slot car. On the highway the snarly engine note raises up a couple octaves in pitch and becomes an inescapable drone, and of course you feel every expansion crack as well. On a road its just skittish and harsh. Unless your previous car was a WRX it'd be fun for about the first three payments.

I've been a Mercedes guy for ten years. Three S Class, and the C. I made the mistake of renting a 430i for a road trip because my wife wanted a convertible. That car was so superior, in terms of driveability, solidity, performance, handling, exhaust note, comfort, audio quality, and frankly looks, I parked the C Class and ordered a built 430i with a six speed.

I drove the 440 and for me it was too refined and quiet. It reminded me of driving a Tesla Model S, not a C43. The 430 has an entirely different personality. The T4 works harder and sounds great doing it. Very smooth and free revving too, like there's no mechanical friction in the engine. A WOT run through the gears from a dig gives you a few seconds to enjoy the drama before you're doing 100 and have to back off. The C43 and 440 both do it quicker, but to me that's just less to enjoy.

A couple of easy mods on either 4 series will give you that dual personality... comfortable family cruiser/bad ass sports coupe you're looking for. (The C43 has one personality, and it's Jar Jar Binks.) I'd recommend the Burger Motorsports JB4 piggyback tune. (Or start with the less expensive JB+), a Billet intake, and the Dinan Freeflow Sport exhaust, which sounds incredibly aggressive but also knows when to shut up. I wouldn't dismiss the BMW T4 B48 engine just because its a 4. It behaves a lot like the old naturally aspirated inline 6 (which makes sense since that's the engine it replaced). But it needs the JB4 to really wake it up. On the JB4 Map 1 there's a ton of pull without any of the loss of smoothness you can get from a straight up boost controller.

Also the fake "Burmester" audio system in the Benz is terrible, navi works if you don't prefer a certain destination. Leather wore off the white seats in the first three months. It always sounds like a window is open but its not. Just wind entering the cabin somehow. My C300 is a full 5db louder at highway speed than the 430i.

Sedans sold in the US are built at Vance in Alabama, using a process that they'd never used before the W205 and it shows. The coupes and cabrios are German built and are not known for the poor build quality of the domestic W05s.

[upsidedownfunnel]

The current gen C class W205 is known for its interior quality and good overall build quality. The current gen 3/4 (F3x) are known for relatively cheap interiors (compared to C/A4) and having a lot of squeaks and rattles.

The transmission on the BMW is much better. The transmission is the 2nd most important mechanical component of a car behind the engine. Its importance should not be ignored. Unless you're getting a manual transmission, which you should consider. Then the choice is obviously easy.

Do not get the turbo 4 if you can afford it. There is nothing quite like the BMW inline 6 motors. The B48 is fine, but the B58 is special. It's smoother, has a much better exhaust note, and has much more potential for tuning. If it's in your budget, get the 6 cylinder. The C43 V6 is more powerful and is an excellent engine, but it's not quite the smooth inline 6 of the BMW. The C43 will probably be faster in a straight line, though.

Also remember that the BMW 440i is going to be replaced late next year or early 2020. So you'll be driving a previous generation car within a year and a half. Handling on the current 4 series is just OK. It's not leaps and bounds better than C43 but it is a little better depending on the options package.

As is usual with MB vs BMW, it comes down to luxury or sport. The Benz pampers you inside, the BMW gives you better performance overall.

I would probably pick up the C43 right now. It'll "last longer" since it's a newer car and then you can always get the next gen 440i when your lease is up in 2021.

[5ilver-5amurai]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

The current gen C class W205 is known for its interior quality and good overall build quality. The current gen 3/4 (F3x) are known for relatively cheap interiors (compared to C/A4) and having a lot of squeaks and rattles.

The transmission on the BMW is much better. The transmission is the 2nd most important mechanical component of a car behind the engine. Its importance should not be ignored. Unless you're getting a manual transmission, which you should consider. Then the choice is obviously easy.

Do not get the turbo 4 if you can afford it. There is nothing quite like the BMW inline 6 motors. The B48 is fine, but the B58 is special. It's smoother, has a much better exhaust note, and has much more potential for tuning. If it's in your budget, get the 6 cylinder. The C43 V6 is more powerful and is an excellent engine, but it's not quite the smooth inline 6 of the BMW. The C43 will probably be faster in a straight line, though.

Also remember that the BMW 440i is going to be replaced late next year or early 2020. So you'll be driving a previous generation car within a year and a half. Handling on the current 4 series is just OK. It's not leaps and bounds better than C43 but it is a little better depending on the options package.

As is usual with MB vs BMW, it comes down to luxury or sport. The Benz pampers you inside, the BMW gives you better performance overall.

I would probably pick up the C43 right now. It'll "last longer" since it's a newer car and then you can always get the next gen 440i when your lease is up in 2021.

This is a really really good assessment of a 435/440 vs a C43. The only thing i would add is that there is definitely a hit or miss rattle issue with the C43 as well. My history of reading both forums has lead me to believe that the issue is more dominant in vehicles not produced in Germany. Also, the C43 truly has terrible ride quality even on non-runflats, but it is definitely more Jekyll and Hyde than the current 4 series in terms of daily driving and spirited driving.

[cfm56d7b]

BMW 440i GC with MPPSK has an edge over Mercedes because of transmission. In addition, B58 engine continued to impress me (I have 2017 BMW 440i GC / no MPPSK).

Because you also want xDrive, the suspension may disappoint you - too soft on xDrive models. Get the vehicle with M Adaptive suspension option. Or - skip M Adaptive and get Ohlins R&T coilovers instead later.

Very detailed review at https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1372192

[Mike5215]

Originally Posted by 5ilver-5amurai

This is a really really good assessment of a 435/440 vs a C43. The only thing i would add is that there is definitely a hit or miss rattle issue with the C43 as well. My history of reading both forums has lead me to believe that the issue is more dominant in vehicles not produced in Germany. Also, the C43 truly has terrible ride quality even on non-runflats, but it is definitely more Jekyll and Hyde than the current 4 series in terms of daily driving and spirited driving.

^This. The rattle issue seemed to have affected most W205 sedans built in Alabama. Mine was quiet for around three months and then it was a game of Whack-A-Mole hunting the rattles down and cramming felt tape into the joints and crevasses. I never did get ahead of it. Eventually you'll start to subconsciously cringe whenever you hit a patch of less than perfect road, or an expansion joint, or a caterpillar. The 205 was a very ambitious interior design for MB, following the debut of the W222 S Class's very ambitious interior. Putting in all of those cool contours and nice finishes is great, but not if everything starts rubbing together and complaining after a few thousand miles. Strictly on appearance the W205 looks like it comes from a different decade than the F32. In terms of being less pretty but well put together, I'll take the F32 hands down.

For the OP, I get the comparison of the B58 4 Series vs the C43. Both are twin turbo sixes. But very different personalities. The C43's charm is how raw and nasty the V6 is. It roars, screams, and in the early models at least, had a built in fuel overrun programmed in that made a nice series of exhaust pops on a downshift. (I think they may have coded that out). The suspension is super stiff. It rides like a sports car.

The B58 inline 6 is super smooth. It could pass for a V8 in a lot of respects. It's way more polished feeling than the Benz. Maybe the M240i would be a better head-to-head in terms of feel and driving dynamics.

[18340i]

I drove a B48 4 series and started looking at other cars. It was away too boring. Then I drove a B58 car and ended up getting one. Sounds really nice with a midpipe.

If you get the BMW make sure it's one of the 6cyl ones.

For what it's worth, every C Class loaner I've had has had pretty loud rattles at under 5k miles, both the C300 and C43. My BMW did too, but got it fixed and it doesn't rattle anymore.

[uncleruckus]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

The transmission on the BMW is much better. The transmission is the 2nd most important mechanical component of a car behind the engine. Its importance should not be ignored. Unless you're getting a manual transmission, which you should consider. Then the choice is obviously easy.

I would almost say that the transmission could be more important than the engine. A beautiful engine can be absolutely ruined by a terrible automatic slushbox. A well made transmission that has been programmed properly can make a boring engine feel much more lively and entertaining to drive.

Granted, this doesn't really factor in too too much, as both engines are great and the Benz transmission isn't horrible (just not as good as the ZF8 imo). I drove a newer GLA250 with the 7 speed dual clutch gearbox (which I believe is the same gearbox used across Benz's lineup) and while it was a great transmission, especially when pushing it hard (WOT shifts were incredibly fast in manual mode ... faster than my ZF8), it didn't feel as smooth and hesitates a bit more when going slow in auto mode.

[simonelwell]

I have a 440i GC with MPPSK - can't speak for the '43. The 440i is outstanding - a comfortable pragmatic car around town and a beast on the open road or track. It's not an M4, but it's not far off and it will set you back way less money as well as having the extra doors.
I took mine on a BMW Car Club UK track day and had the most fun ever. On country roads it's a beautiful drive too.

[SoCal_NSX]

Just basing it on looks...and to many that is important.... there is no comparison imo.

4GC kills the C43







Even it plain Jane stock form

[skw]

Taking the engines into consideration, keep in mind that the B58 is newer. The M276 in the C43 is older (although it has received a few updates) and dates back to the days of the Diamler/Chrysler marriage. It's based off a Pentastar block. Same engine as the former C450 before it was renamed C43. It is being replaced by the "53" motor which is an I6 w/ an electric motor attached. It's already in the CLS53, next going into the GLE53, and spreading to the rest of the lineup.

Interesting tidbit, I took my daughter to the Air & Space Museum in DC last spring. There's a display about BMW and Mercedes and there's an early inline 6 cylinder BMW engine on display.

[Mike5215]

Drive both the 4 and 6. You'll probably still end up with the 6 but I would never in a million years have considered the 4 cylinder mainly because it's a 4 cylinder and there's nothing sexy or pulse racing about anything with a 4 pot. Just no. Actually I felt the same way about sixes. Too pedestrian. Aside from the W205, my four previous cars were NA V8s. An 05 GTO, an 04 S430, an 06 S500 and an 2010 S550. (The only one I still miss is the GTO).

We also have or had other T4's in the family beside the W205... a 2014 A5, a 2012 CC, and a 2017 Q7... and they're fine pushing those cars around but not especially rewarding to drive. Too much lag, and they sound terrible when under load. The W205 sounds like a diesel in a tunnel.

I got tricked into the 430. I rented one knowing zip about BMWs, and fell in love with it over the course of a week. Based on how the 430 performed vs the C300 I assumed there was a six under the hood. I've never had a T4 rev so smoothly and freely, and sound good doing it. By the time I discovered the truth I was already hooked.

Because I wanted a manual car, I decided to do a build, so at that point I could have checked the box for the 440 (or the M4). It wasn't a cost thing. No 4 series costs anywhere near the stupid $100k the S550 cost. It was a bargain no matter which engine I chose. I must have driven a dozen 440s and 430s back to back to back trying to decide why the B58 wasn't winning me over, but it definitely wasn't. I wanted an engine that felt and sounded like it was working. The B58 was too effortless for me.

One more consideration on the C43/450. It's kind of a Frankenstein. It gets the same suspension set up as the C63, which is great, especially if you don't really like where your internal organs were originally positioned in your body, but it doesn't get the longer hood or wider fenders. To make it work, MB came up with an odd front wheel offset where everything fits without rubbing, but you better love the OEM wheels because there's almost nothing aftermarket that fits. Lots of sad C43 owners in that respect, although I will say if you visit the forums they absolutely love their cars overall. I think 90% of that has to with all the AMG badging but whatever. They probably grew up thinking they could never afford a real AMG car. And they were right.

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by Mike5215

Drive both the 4 and 6. You'll probably still end up with the 6 but I would never in a million years have considered the 4 cylinder mainly because it's a 4 cylinder and there's nothing sexy or pulse racing about anything with a 4 pot. Just no. Actually I felt the same way about sixes. Too pedestrian. Aside from the W205, my four previous cars were NA V8s. An 05 GTO, an 04 S430, an 06 S500 and an 2010 S550. (The only one I still miss is the GTO).

We also have or had other T4's in the family beside the W205... a 2014 A5, a 2012 CC, and a 2017 Q7... and they're fine pushing those cars around but not especially rewarding to drive. Too much lag, and they sound terrible when under load. The W205 sounds like a diesel in a tunnel.

I got tricked into the 430. I rented one knowing zip about BMWs, and fell in love with it over the course of a week. Based on how the 430 performed vs the C300 I assumed there was a six under the hood. I've never had a T4 rev so smoothly and freely, and sound good doing it. By the time I discovered the truth I was already hooked.

Because I wanted a manual car, I decided to do a build, so at that point I could have checked the box for the 440 (or the M4). It wasn't a cost thing. No 4 series costs anywhere near the stupid $100k the S550 cost. It was a bargain no matter which engine I chose. I must have driven a dozen 440s and 430s back to back to back trying to decide why the B58 wasn't winning me over, but it definitely wasn't. I wanted an engine that felt and sounded like it was working. The B58 was too effortless for me.

One more consideration on the C43/450. It's kind of a Frankenstein. It gets the same suspension set up as the C63, which is great, especially if you don't really like where your internal organs were originally positioned in your body, but it doesn't get the longer hood or wider fenders. To make it work, MB came up with an odd front wheel offset where everything fits without rubbing, but you better love the OEM wheels because there's almost nothing aftermarket that fits. Lots of sad C43 owners in that respect, although I will say if you visit the forums they absolutely love their cars overall. I think 90% of that has to with all the AMG badging but whatever. They probably grew up thinking they could never afford a real AMG car. And they were right.

For reference: I was part of the 4 series debut in the US. I was in the un4gettable ad campaign. At VIR all the track drivers drove the 428s around since they weighed less.

PS I know the 428 had the N20, but still it was interesting.

[skw]

Originally Posted by Mike5215

To make it work, MB came up with an odd front wheel offset where everything fits without rubbing, but you better love the OEM wheels because there's almost nothing aftermarket that fits. Lots of sad C43 owners in that respect, although I will say if you visit the forums they absolutely love their cars overall. I think 90% of that has to with all the AMG badging but whatever. They probably grew up thinking they could never afford a real AMG car. And they were right.

That badging has caused so many arguments. Try telling a C43 or GLE43 owner that they don't have a real AMG. World of hurt.