[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by ssshake

I know it's an old post but I just drove a 2015 328i for the first time today. I have an 09 e92 328i with sports package. Which has really heavy steering (takes more muscle to turn wheel but don't have to turn wheel as much).

This 2015 328i was the complete opposite. I had to crank the wheel like mad and took little effort to turn. Very loose. I was really disappointed, it felt like a buick verano I had as a rental recently. I would have to turn the wheel a lot more for the desired result.

I quoted your post specifically because you said is was comparible to an e90 which I find isn't the case at all. So I'm curious to know what information I'm missing.

I heard some people talk about different sport settings, and I've tried eco, comfort and sport on mine and that didnt seem to affect the steering at all.

Am I crazy or what's up? The steering, shifter, and brakes killed this car for me, which sucks because I was planning to sell my car in a couple years and pick up a used 2012-2015 328i, just refresh what I already had.

The brakes didnt seem nearly as grabby. The shifter felt tiny and cheap. The transmission however seems a lot better. I'm on the fence about the inline 4 turbo over the inline 6, but the inline 4 sounds cooler and seems to have more pick up. The turbo wastegate or blow off valve, whatever.. sounds pretty cool.

Sorry I got off topic of steering, but lastly I'll say I really liked the tech in it. The colour screen under the cluster is nice

You're not crazy, you're just used to the E90 with very heavy steering. My brother has an E90 335 and the steering feels like driving a truck to me. As you say, it takes muscle. If I drove that E90 and then switched to an F30 I would go on and on (and on and on) about numb, light, Camry errr Verano steering too. Thank goodness I'm not plagued by a perfect E90 experience as a reference.

I find it interesting that you cannot tell the difference in steering tightness between Eco mode and Sport mode on the 2015 you test drove. On my car its night and day.

In any event, if you don't like the steering, the shifter, and the brakes, maybe you should keep your car until the LCI models (2016) have been out two or three years. They say steering has improved whatever that means. Drive one and see for yourself.

Enjoy your E90 in the meantime. It's a great car.

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by ssshake

I know it's an old post but I just drove a 2015 328i for the first time today. I have an 09 e92 328i with sports package. Which has really heavy steering (takes more muscle to turn wheel but don't have to turn wheel as much).

This 2015 328i was the complete opposite. I had to crank the wheel like mad and took little effort to turn. Very loose. I was really disappointed, it felt like a buick verano I had as a rental recently. I would have to turn the wheel a lot more for the desired result.

I quoted your post specifically because you said is was comparible to an e90 which I find isn't the case at all. So I'm curious to know what information I'm missing.

I heard some people talk about different sport settings, and I've tried eco, comfort and sport on mine and that didnt seem to affect the steering at all.

Am I crazy or what's up? The steering, shifter, and brakes killed this car for me, which sucks because I was planning to sell my car in a couple years and pick up a used 2012-2015 328i, just refresh what I already had.

The brakes didnt seem nearly as grabby. The shifter felt tiny and cheap. The transmission however seems a lot better. I'm on the fence about the inline 4 turbo over the inline 6, but the inline 4 sounds cooler and seems to have more pick up. The turbo wastegate or blow off valve, whatever.. sounds pretty cool.

Sorry I got off topic of steering, but lastly I'll say I really liked the tech in it. The colour screen under the cluster is nice

One big question, did you put the car in Sport mode or is this grip from Comfort? If so, jokes on you.

Comfort is Prius mode, sport is BMW. 2 cars in one. Not the best idea, but it is what it is.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

One big question, did you put the car in Sport mode or is this grip from Comfort? If so, jokes on you.

Comfort is Prius mode, sport is BMW. 2 cars in one. Not the best idea, but it is what it is.

Remember, the steering is only one issue for the OP. The shifter and the brakes are still an issue. Putting it in sport mode won't fix those to "problems." Clearly the OP should keep his E90 'till the wheels fall off. Its really not a bad strategy. He keeps a great car and he's not shelling out for a newer car. In the meantime, BMW moves on with or without him. Some of BMW's moves are not to my liking either, but when I shopped other brands, nothing came close for my taste.

Now that I've driven 20k miles in my F30, I am totally used to the lighter steering, even in comfort mode. Like I said before, the E90 feels like a truck now by comparison.

[ssshake]

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

One big question, did you put the car in Sport mode or is this grip from Comfort? If so, jokes on you.

Comfort is Prius mode, sport is BMW. 2 cars in one. Not the best idea, but it is what it is.

I noticed zero difference between steering in sport, comfort or eco-pro. Didn't expect it either really.

[ssshake]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

maybe you should keep your car until the LCI models (2016) have been out two or three years. They say steering has improved whatever that means. Drive one and see for yourself.

Enjoy your E90 in the meantime. It's a great car.

Ya I hear you, and no difference in sport. For that matter I mostly had it in sport exclusively so that's what I'm not happy with. I think I need to try one with dynamic steering.

My confusion was when MacAttackBMW said the steering was comparable . So I wanted some clarification on that. I think some e9x's had electric steering? So maybe he's comparing that?

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by ssshake

Ya I hear you, and no difference in sport. For that matter I mostly had it in sport exclusively so that's what I'm not happy with. I think I need to try one with dynamic steering.

My confusion was when MacAttackBMW said the steering was comparable . So I wanted some clarification on that. I think some e9x's had electric steering? So maybe he's comparing that?

I think you mean VSS. VSS does not impact steering tightness at all. It does increase the steering ratios when the wheel is turned sharp, like rounding tight corners or in parking lots. Its a great feature (to me) but sadly it does not affect steering tightness.

It took me less than a week to get used to the lighter steering, albeit from a 540i, not an E90. I wonder if there are any E90 drivers that made the change to F30 and ended up liking the F30 steering more than the E90 after they got used to the change?

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by ssshake

I noticed zero difference between steering in sport, comfort or eco-pro. Didn't expect it either really.

Ok, now I'm starting to question whether or not you've even driven an F30, or if you're here just to have an audience.

The weight of the steering changes quite noticeably in all new BMWs, including in my wife's X3. Not as much as my old F30 or my new F32, but you can still feel it.

No electric steering is going to feel like hydraulic, but everyone has made the switch now, so it isn't changing. Electric steering can be tweaked; and it has been.

Outside of Porsche, BMW does electronic steering better than anyone else in my opinion.

Funny thing about some guys is the lack of knowledge about the heritage of this brand. BMW aren't traditionalists. In fact, it tends to move on and forward faster than almost anyone. Only the Hofmeister Kink, performance orientation, spartan driver focused interior, central locking button, loud clicking sound of the turn signal, thud of the trunk closure, and of course, the Kidney Grille, are constants of this manufacturer. Take note that these are cosmetics mostly.

BMW is all about change. You shouldn't get used to anything with the cars the company makes. Just study a little BMW history.

If you have a car that you loved/love, keep it, because BMW will not make it again.

If you want the same car over and over for 50 years or so; get a 911. Otherwise, get over it, or go buy another brand. It's really that simple.

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

Remember, the steering is only one issue for the OP. The shifter and the brakes are still an issue. Putting it in sport mode won't fix those to "problems." Clearly the OP should keep his E90 'till the wheels fall off. Its really not a bad strategy. He keeps a great car and he's not shelling out for a newer car. In the meantime, BMW moves on with or without him. Some of BMW's moves are not to my liking either, but when I shopped other brands, nothing came close for my taste.

Now that I've driven 20k miles in my F30, I am totally used to the lighter steering, even in comfort mode. Like I said before, the E90 feels like a truck now by comparison.

The brakes are still some of the best in the business. The brakes can also be upgraded with ease when purchasing.

Can't speak to the stick shift. If its the auto shifter thats the issue, that's laughable. With an auto you only touch it a couple of times.

Biggest difference that I can point to in the Fxx architecture is that the standard or base line cars no longer have the performance oriented BMW character. So many new to the brand came from Camrys and what not, and felt that the Exx were too stiff, steering too heavy, not enough toys to play with (still had them, just many passed on them), etc.

Now, you must custom your Bimmer to proper standards based on your taste. This gives you choice where in the past, there was a more "one flavor" for all.

If you spend this much money on a car and make compromises, buy off of the lot, get a stripper or base line, then it's your fault.

I order my cars to my spec, so I guess I'm just happier. Funny thing is, everyone has this same option. If you're buying used, just be more informed and shop around accordingly. If all you see are these lame base line cars with standard suspension and 17s, yet you still buy it, who's fault is that really that the car sucks?

M Sport or Sport Line with sport suspension or at least M adaptive should be considered mandatory. Otherwise, the Camry is the smarter purchase for you.

[Vegetable]

I have a 435i with DHP.. hate the steering in comfort and eco, but it's pretty damn good (and almost as good as the steering in my e92) in Sport and Sport +.

[nicknaz]

There is also a question of which config of car is being discussed. On my 2013 335 we just switched from contisportcontact5 to s001. Both are oem 19 rft but the s001 feel better.

Our car got reprogrammed as well and steering improved but with a 2015 I expect the software is not an issue.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

Biggest difference that I can point to in the Fxx architecture is that the standard or base line cars no longer have the performance oriented BMW character. So many new to the brand came from Camrys and what not, and felt that the Exx were too stiff, steering too heavy, not enough toys to play with (still had them, just many passed on them), etc.

Now, you must custom your Bimmer to proper standards based on your taste. This gives you choice where in the past, there was a more "one flavor" for all.

I agree, even well seasoned BMW users have to specify cars carefully, or we can be caught out. More so than ever these days.

As to the more base specs' I posted this comment as part of a review when I first tested an F11 model on launch day.

So from my perspective, if it was the first 5-series I’d driven, I’d not be too sure this was the car I wanted to drive, or own. But from my experience in better 5’s, it just isn’t a spec’ for me, I’d have to give it a miss and look ‘upwards’ or elsewhere.

I'm totally happy with my current 5-series wagon, but it took plenty of homework and testing to decide exactly what key options, wheel sizes, etc., to get what I wanted.

When I had an F30 320d auto EfficientDynamics auto for a couple of days.

I just can't get my head around whether I like this car, or not. No way am I trying to compare it with my own car, there is just no comparison in any way, so would be totally unfair to even try and do so.

I'm just trying to assess it as a BMW and 3-series at that. I'm just so underwhelmed, although it does drive reasonably well. It just doesn't feel BMW enough to light my fire in any way....

....This car felt from a different stable than the F30 328i I tried.

The 328i had some key options, made it a different car.

These are honest comments, from someone who's been around BMW for over 40-years.

HighlandPete

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

The brakes are still some of the best in the business. The brakes can also be upgraded with ease when purchasing.

Can't speak to the stick shift. If its the auto shifter thats the issue, that's laughable. With an auto you only touch it a couple of times.

Biggest difference that I can point to in the Fxx architecture is that the standard or base line cars no longer have the performance oriented BMW character. So many new to the brand came from Camrys and what not, and felt that the Exx were too stiff, steering too heavy, not enough toys to play with (still had them, just many passed on them), etc.

Now, you must custom your Bimmer to proper standards based on your taste. This gives you choice where in the past, there was a more "one flavor" for all.

If you spend this much money on a car and make compromises, buy off of the lot, get a stripper or base line, then it's your fault.

I order my cars to my spec, so I guess I'm just happier. Funny thing is, everyone has this same option. If you're buying used, just be more informed and shop around accordingly. If all you see are these lame base line cars with standard suspension and 17s, yet you still buy it, who's fault is that really that the car sucks?

M Sport or Sport Line with sport suspension or at least M adaptive should be considered mandatory. Otherwise, the Camry is the smarter purchase for you.

Sorry I wasn't more clear. I was speaking about the issues the OP has, not mine. I agree with everything you are saying. That's why I ordered an m-sport with DHP and not a base model. I understand that BMW is targeting a broader audience now and as a result, the base model will not be to the liking of someone who is used to and likes the sportier feel.

To me, the M-sport with DHP, especially after adding Dinan Shockware, it pretty darn perfect. No issues with steering, even in Comfort, but I must admit I like it better in Sport/Sport+. The brakes are great. I don't know where the OP is coming from on this point. The shifter is fine too.

Look, there are some die-hard E90 drivers that simply choose not to embrace the F3x. They are not wrong. Its just what they like. I believe they are missing out on an opportunity to own a truly great car when equipped properly. I'm pretty sure if an E90 driver who dislikes the F30 swapped cars with me for a week they would have a better opinion of the F30. My brother was one of these people. After driving my car he did not want to give the keys back.

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

Sorry I wasn't more clear. I was speaking about the issues the OP has, not mine. I agree with everything you are saying. That's why I ordered an m-sport with DHP and not a base model. I understand that BMW is targeting a broader audience now and as a result, the base model will not be to the liking of someone who is used to and likes the sportier feel.

To me, the M-sport with DHP, especially after adding Dinan Shockware, it pretty darn perfect. No issues with steering, even in Comfort, but I must admit I like it better in Sport/Sport+. The brakes are great. I don't know where the OP is coming from on this point. The shifter is fine too.

Look, there are some die-hard E90 drivers that simply choose embrace the F3x. They are not wrong. Its just what they like. I believe they are missing out on an opportunity to own a truly great car when equipped properly. I'm pretty sure if an E90 driver who dislikes the F30 swapped cars with me for a week they would have a better opinion of the F30. My brother was one of these people. After driving my car he did not want to give the keys back.

I'm with you buddy, that post was for the OP. I know you have DHP which is a proper set up. Sure, not all like it, but it's the future for BMW. I'll eventually come over to it also.

I know that there are many who are stuck in the E90 days, others are in the E46 days and so on. Hell, my neighbor is in the muscle car late 60s, bless his heart !

[4GCRacer]

Coming from a 335is I can say I really don't like the steering on my 435GC. Comfort mode is way too soft and vague for me. Sport Mode is better in terms of firmness but still vague, meaning thru a corner the steering seems to hunt for direction causing me to make minor adjustments which you should not have to do on a constant radius.

MSport + MPPK
DHP
19" Goodyear Eagle F1

I also miss the DCT, which unfortunately is no longer offered on a regular 3 or 4 series.

BMW, for 4 Series LCI, please offer a M435i with re-tuned steering and a DCT option. Oh wait that would probably be more than a M4

[mtbnole]

Any chance of the dealership being able to update the steering programming to the 2016 version? Not if they are willing, but will they be able?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by mtbnole

Any chance of the dealership being able to update the steering programming to the 2016 version? Not if they are willing, but will they be able?

It seems like there is more to the 2016 LCI than just software. The suspension is changing, so that will affect steering feel too.

[mtbnole]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

It seems like there is more to the 2016 LCI than just software. The suspension is changing, so that will affect steering feel too.

understood, but if there is a software update, would it work with the pre-2016 hardware, and would it be beneficial?

[momo3605]

Originally Posted by ssshake

I noticed zero difference between steering in sport, comfort or eco-pro. Didn't expect it either really.

With DHP, you have to configure sport mode. When you go into sport mode, you click configure and you have the option to put drivetrain in sport, suspension in sport, or both. The steering becomes stiffer when suspension is in sport. My guess is the car you drove was set to sport drivetrain only. It's definitely a lot better in sport, and pretty stiff, but I'm still not a big fan of it.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by momo3605

With DHP, you have to configure sport mode. When you go into sport mode, you click configure and you have the option to put drivetrain in sport, suspension in sport, or both. The steering becomes stiffer when suspension is in sport. My guess is the car you drove was set to sport drivetrain only. It's definitely a lot better in sport, and pretty stiff, but I'm still not a big fan of it.

Great catch. That's probably exactly what happened. That's the only explanation as to why there wasn't a very noticeable tightening of the steering when Sport mode was selected.

As a side note, I have mine set the other way. I have Sport mode set to chassis only. If I want sport throttle, I simply move the gear shift to the left and I'm good to go.

[S6F]

BMW knew they took a gamble moving away from the hydraulic steering around which they built a well-deserved reputation for driver involvement. But their gamble clearly paid off in spades as reading this forum it's clear that most can't tell the difference between weight and feel. Recommend reading the Motortrend.com comparison of the F30 335i and the new Jag XE.

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by stevefoster

BMW knew they took a gamble moving away from the hydraulic steering around which they built a well-deserved reputation for driver involvement. But their gamble clearly paid off in spades as reading this forum it's clear that most can't tell the difference between weight and feel. Recommend reading the Motortrend.com comparison of the F30 335i and the new Jag XE.

Making a bold statement to a forum of very active enthusiasts being so new here.

Not a good way to make a first impression.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

The LCI will bring back the faith everyone lost in BMW. The re-calibrated steering has significantly improved, if you ask me.