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      12-20-2019, 10:35 AM   #1
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PS2 w/ upgraded hpfp - driveability - vs OEM Stock Turbo and hpfp

Hi - can someone comment on the low-end torque/city driving power going from stock turbo and hpfp to PS2 w/ upgraded hpfp?

I would like to hear from some people who have actually done this upgrade and what the turbo lag is like. Noticeable? Not?
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      12-20-2019, 10:38 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f32_027 View Post
Hi - can someone comment on the low-end torque/city driving power going from stock turbo and hpfp to PS2 w/ upgraded hpfp?

I would like to hear from some people who have actually done this upgrade and what the turbo lag is like. Noticeable? Not?
Not noticeable at all BUT I'm also using the xHP transmission flash so not sure how my car would feel without it.
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      12-20-2019, 11:53 AM   #3
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Great, thanks..! Looking for others to chime in as well. The question has been asked, but usually only on person responds, so there isn't enough of a consensus. Thanks, Munchi!
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      12-20-2019, 12:20 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by f32_027 View Post
Great, thanks..! Looking for others to chime in as well. The question has been asked, but usually only on person responds, so there isn't enough of a consensus. Thanks, Munchi!
I don't have any turbo lag either and I have linear throttle on my custom tune.
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      12-20-2019, 01:36 PM   #5
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I agree with what has been said above, no noticeable turbo lag
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      12-20-2019, 06:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f32_027 View Post
Hi - can someone comment on the low-end torque/city driving power going from stock turbo and hpfp to PS2 w/ upgraded hpfp?

I would like to hear from some people who have actually done this upgrade and what the turbo lag is like. Noticeable? Not?
Look at the dynos out there for PS2 N55s and you'll see that it takes a while for the torque to peak compared to the start of the dyno run. Assuming the run starts at 2,000rpms, most EWG N55s with the PS2 turbo don't hit peak torque until just after 4,000rpms. A stock N55 EWG will hit peak torque in less than 500rpms. Assuming the run starts at 2000rpms, the stock EWG N55 will hit peak torque at just below 2,500rpms. Those rpm differences in torque peak between the PS2 and stock turbo would be considered "lag".

With that said, the power curve of the PS2 turbo is more ideal, IMO. It's has a more linear, naturally aspirated power curve rather than hitting hard immediately. Plus, it makes a lot more power than stock. On a track, it's power delivery is more ideal considering the amount of power gained. If all that power hit like the stock turbo, the car would be a nightmare to control.
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      12-20-2019, 08:41 PM   #7
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There is definitely more lag with just ps2, i just installed xdi 35 and did a custom tune and much better... wondering if my logs look good if they will push the boost up on my first revision of custom tune

My opinion is if your doing ps2 only don’t bother, if adding xdi and custom tune worth it.
I also wonder if turbosmart blow off valve will help, vs gfb upgrade
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      12-23-2019, 05:57 PM   #8
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Thank you to all those who replied - so basically a bit of both - no lag and yes, definitely more lag.

If anyone has any experience that hasn't chimed in, please do..!
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      12-23-2019, 06:17 PM   #9
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I think XutvJet already gave you the best (and more quantitative) explanation you are going to get. You are going to hear both sides when you ask for opinions, because it is somewhat subjective, and often difficult to tell because the car should be faster overall after the PS2 even if the power delivery occurs later ("lag"). Going with any bigger turbo than stock is going to shift the power curve to the right (higher RPM). In general the difference between stock turbo and PS2 is exactly what XutvJet alluded to. Peak torque when stock is quoted at what, 1200-1300 rpm? You just arent going to achieve that fast of spool with a PS2. The tradeoff as with any increase in turbo size is that you will be able to make more torque [and HP of course] (albeit at higher RPM), and hold that power for longer without the turbo running out of steam.

Your best bet if you really want to "feel" the difference is find someone with a PS2 in your area and ride/drive it back to back with your car. Everything else is trying to interpret other people's subjective opinion on how it feels to them.
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      12-23-2019, 07:08 PM   #10
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      12-23-2019, 07:16 PM   #11
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Definitely noticeable turbo lag. I cannot believe people saying otherwise... I can even feel the difference between PS2 Gen1 and Gen3. I hate waiting for the AT to shift down if I want to overtake so I try to apply just enough throttle to prevent that and in those cases there is clear turbo lag compared to stock.

If you primarily drive city and very rarely go above ~100mph then stick with the stock turbo.
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      12-23-2019, 07:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Look at the dynos out there for PS2 N55s and you'll see that it takes a while for the torque to peak compared to the start of the dyno run. Assuming the run starts at 2,000rpms, most EWG N55s with the PS2 turbo don't hit peak torque until just after 4,000rpms. A stock N55 EWG will hit peak torque in less than 500rpms. Assuming the run starts at 2000rpms, the stock EWG N55 will hit peak torque at just below 2,500rpms. Those rpm differences in torque peak between the PS2 and stock turbo would be considered "lag".

With that said, the power curve of the PS2 turbo is more ideal, IMO. It's has a more linear, naturally aspirated power curve rather than hitting hard immediately. Plus, it makes a lot more power than stock. On a track, it's power delivery is more ideal considering the amount of power gained. If all that power hit like the stock turbo, the car would be a nightmare to control.



Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
I think XutvJet already gave you the best (and more quantitative) explanation you are going to get. You are going to hear both sides when you ask for opinions, because it is somewhat subjective, and often difficult to tell because the car should be faster overall after the PS2 even if the power delivery occurs later ("lag"). Going with any bigger turbo than stock is going to shift the power curve to the right (higher RPM). In general the difference between stock turbo and PS2 is exactly what XutvJet alluded to. Peak torque when stock is quoted at what, 1200-1300 rpm? You just arent going to achieve that fast of spool with a PS2. The tradeoff as with any increase in turbo size is that you will be able to make more torque [and HP of course] (albeit at higher RPM), and hold that power for longer without the turbo running out of steam.

Your best bet if you really want to "feel" the difference is find someone with a PS2 in your area and ride/drive it back to back with your car. Everything else is trying to interpret other people's subjective opinion on how it feels to them.

Agree 100% with both above statements. Only other option to spool up a bit quicker would be BorgWarner’s EFR Dual ceramic ball bearing 7670 turbocharger.

Speedtech developed a S3 kit found HERE

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      12-23-2019, 07:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Look at the dynos out there for PS2 N55s and you'll see that it takes a while for the torque to peak compared to the start of the dyno run. Assuming the run starts at 2,000rpms, most EWG N55s with the PS2 turbo don't hit peak torque until just after 4,000rpms. A stock N55 EWG will hit peak torque in less than 500rpms. Assuming the run starts at 2000rpms, the stock EWG N55 will hit peak torque at just below 2,500rpms. Those rpm differences in torque peak between the PS2 and stock turbo would be considered "lag".

With that said, the power curve of the PS2 turbo is more ideal, IMO. It's has a more linear, naturally aspirated power curve rather than hitting hard immediately. Plus, it makes a lot more power than stock. On a track, it's power delivery is more ideal considering the amount of power gained. If all that power hit like the stock turbo, the car would be a nightmare to control.
You should not compare peak torque. You should compare how long it takes both turbos to deliver e.g 10 or 15psi of boost. Where peak torque is placed in the rev range is often determined by the map more than the capabilities of the turbo. What gear you are in also has a big influence of how fast (delta rpm) the turbo spools.

f32_027
In 4th gear (8AT) it takes the PS2 300rpm to deliver 10psi when 100% WGDC is requested at 3000rpm. You can compare this to your stock turbo and see the difference.
https://datazap.me/u/harkes/ots-ps2-...-22&mark=18-23
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Last edited by harkes; 12-23-2019 at 07:31 PM..
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      12-23-2019, 08:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harkes View Post
Definitely noticeable turbo lag. I cannot believe people saying otherwise... I can even feel the difference between PS2 Gen1 and Gen3. I hate waiting for the AT to shift down if I want to overtake so I try to apply just enough throttle to prevent that and in those cases there is clear turbo lag compared to stock.

If you primarily drive city and very rarely go above ~100mph then stick with the stock turbo.
One variable to consider - do you think there's a difference comparing ewg to pwg? (Assuming all else the same)
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      12-23-2019, 08:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f32_027 View Post
One variable to consider - do you think there's a difference comparing ewg to pwg? (Assuming all else the same)
Yes, EWG has better wastegate control, and much easier to tune. PWG has very shitty wastegate control, and is very hard to tune as lots of factors can affect tuning for PWG, such as your boost solenoid going bad and such.

EWG will make more power than PWG. All the people complaining about lag need to learn how to use the powerband correctly. The only way you're going to feel it is if you go below 3500rpm. Most of the time if you're already driving, all you have to do is downshift, and spend time in the upper rpms. The only thing that you'll probably complain about, is if you do 1/4 mile, it's a bit harder to launch as you have to start below 3.5k rpm.

I've had my PS2 on my car the past 60k miles (about 96,000km) and never had a problem with it, when I go lapping, I spend all my time above 5000rpm so I never worry about lag at all.

When I do go drag racing, XHP allows me to brake boost and launch in 2nd gear at about 3800rpm (Yeah not good for the drivetrain lol) but I do pull a 1.67-1.7sec 60ft.
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      12-24-2019, 12:20 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f32_027 View Post
One variable to consider - do you think there's a difference comparing ewg to pwg? (Assuming all else the same)
I would expect the EWG system to react slightly faster but again down to the tune/map how much WGDC is requested hence how fast the turbo spools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
Yes, EWG has better wastegate control, and much easier to tune. PWG has very shitty wastegate control, and is very hard to tune as lots of factors can affect tuning for PWG, such as your boost solenoid going bad and such.

EWG will make more power than PWG. All the people complaining about lag need to learn how to use the powerband correctly. The only way you're going to feel it is if you go below 3500rpm. Most of the time if you're already driving, all you have to do is downshift, and spend time in the upper rpms. The only thing that you'll probably complain about, is if you do 1/4 mile, it's a bit harder to launch as you have to start below 3.5k rpm.

I've had my PS2 on my car the past 60k miles (about 96,000km) and never had a problem with it, when I go lapping, I spend all my time above 5000rpm so I never worry about lag at all.

When I do go drag racing, XHP allows me to brake boost and launch in 2nd gear at about 3800rpm (Yeah not good for the drivetrain lol) but I do pull a 1.67-1.7sec 60ft.
We are talking about lag/spool here, not power or ease of tuning. Nobody is city driving above 3000rpm and the 8AT isn't exactly PDK fast shifting from, let's say, 6th to 3rd if you want to make a fast move. In such a scenario the stock turbo would react way faster.
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      12-26-2019, 09:50 PM   #17
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Tbh get a speed tech with a smaller turbo on it. Will be better than a ps2 because the manifold flows better
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      12-26-2019, 10:10 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by arhoads335i View Post
Tbh get a speed tech with a smaller turbo on it. Will be better than a ps2 because the manifold flows better
Not really interested in a custom tune - ots through mhd = savings. Not tracking or racing car so don't need to extract the most power. Just looking for more fun.
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      12-27-2019, 09:01 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f32_027 View Post
Not really interested in a custom tune - ots through mhd = savings. Not tracking or racing car so don't need to extract the most power. Just looking for more fun.
A custom tune allows for much better driveability as well as a smoother power delivery. It is like $3k for a PS2 + install.... what is another $500 so that you get the most bang for your buck? If you dont want to put money into a custom tune, you shouldnt really be getting a bigger turbo honestly.
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