[neonal]

Hi,

I've recently bought a 440i xDrive GC. I live in Sweden, use the car daily for school run etc. so my street pads should have good stopping power even if it's cold (like OE pads) and they should be silent as well.

I'm planning to track the car when the season starts and from my past track experience with different cars, I know I'm heavy on brakes and I'll need different brake pads for track days.

I'm trying to find a good street and track pad duo that will allow me to just swap them before and after track without needing to re-bed them (I guess they should be made from similar compounds?). I will of course flush the brakes before track day but I really want to avoid surface cleaning the rotors and re-bed pads every time.

Any suggestions? Am I asking too much?

[Brotherhef]

I use stop tech sport pads at my track, but 115 top speed. Pagid rsl29 or pfc08 would be my next step up.

[neonal]

Do you go back to oe pads after tracking or do you use the stoptech pads on street as well?

[Brotherhef]

Originally Posted by neonal

Do you go back to oe pads after tracking or do you use the stoptech pads on street as well?

I usually go back to stock pads simply for less noise and less dust, however I didn't change after my last track day in Oct. and it's been fine. I usually do a minor bed in going back and forth for peace of mind, but I think it would be fine if I didn't.

[jmg]

I swap between OEM and PFC08 between track days. At least with the M3 there is no need to bed the brakes as the street and track compounds don't require it. PFC08 can be noisy, that's the only reason I swap them. Great stopping power with 200tw tires. If you are on street high performance 300tw MPSS and MP4S4 they are on the edge of almost being too much for the tire, it just takes a bit of getting used to. Run flats or tires with a 400 or more UTOG will struggle with these, I would not recommend them.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by jmg

I swap between OEM and PFC08 between track days. At least with the M3 there is no need to bed the brakes as the street and track compounds don't require it. PFC08 can be noisy, that's the only reason I swap them. Great stopping power with 200tw tires. If you are on street high performance 300tw MPSS and MP4S4 they are on the edge of almost being too much for the tire, it just takes a bit of getting used to. Run flats or tires with a 400 or more UTOG will struggle with these, I would not recommend them.

Good advice - how is the noise and dust? I hopefully will be staying working from home, so the car is just used for errands - I might be able to tolerate it...

[neonal]

Originally Posted by jmg

I swap between OEM and PFC08 between track days. At least with the M3 there is no need to bed the brakes as the street and track compounds don't require it. PFC08 can be noisy, that's the only reason I swap them. Great stopping power with 200tw tires. If you are on street high performance 300tw MPSS and MP4S4 they are on the edge of almost being too much for the tire, it just takes a bit of getting used to. Run flats or tires with a 400 or more UTOG will struggle with these, I would not recommend them.

This is really good advice, thanks!

Just for me to understand better, can we generalize pad swap procedure like this:

If your track pads require bedding, you need to clean the rotors before going back to OEM. However if the track pads don't require bedding, you can just swap back and forth?

[LRaev]

You may consider also Ferodo DS2500 as an option. In my opinion they are pretty decent for track/street mixed driving. For street driving they warm quick and the bite when cold is not bad at all, also very quiet so far. My experience on track with the pads is just one track day and they held good compared with the original M Sport pads. The dust is just a little bit more.

My first track day with the F30's M Sport stock brake pads was not a pleasant experience. During session, after warming lap they held 2 fast laps and overheated /only 2,2 kilometers track/. According to the telemetry on the 1st fast lap max lateral G reached was 1.08 stopping from 180+ km/h to 70 km/h for heft hander on street tyres and traction control fully off. The 2nd fast lap max lateral G was 0.86 on the same corner due to overheated pads. On the same track with the Ferodo's I had constant braking power and no problems doing 3 consecutive fast laps /6 sessions/. After inspecting the pads after that track day, they looked OK.

Of course, if you intend to go often to track, your best option is to have dedicated pads to swap and do cleaning and bedding procedures.

[neonal]

FWIW, I went for Ferodo DS performance for the street use (with Motul break fluid) and so far I'm very happy with it, though it needs some getting used to it since initial bite is 5x stronger than almost dead OE pads.

I've asked Ferodo customer support about swapping DS performance with DS2500 or DS1.11, they said that since the pad compounds are similar, they don't require re-bedding. So I'm going to use DS1.11 for track, we'll see how it goes

[brigade24]

Originally Posted by neonal

FWIW, I went for Ferodo DS performance for the street use (with Motul break fluid) and so far I'm very happy with it, though it needs some getting used to it since initial bite is 5x stronger than almost dead OE pads.

I've asked Ferodo customer support about swapping DS performance with DS2500 or DS1.11, they said that since the pad compounds are similar, they don't require re-bedding. So I'm going to use DS1.11 for track, we'll see how it goes

interesting, i use the DS2500 for autox and i was wondering if I needed to bed-in another ferrodo pad for track.

[EstorilMSport]

I had a friend running these in his 997 turbo at Sebring and they held up great. I'm thinking of swapping my EBC RedStuff pads for the DS2500 (and FCP Euro sells them). I run Ferodo DS1.11 on track and they are awesome (better than the PFC08's IMO). They are way too noisy for street use but amazing on track. I burned through them in about 9 days at Sebring and about to order another set.

Originally Posted by LRaev

You may consider also Ferodo DS2500 as an option. In my opinion they are pretty decent for track/street mixed driving. For street driving they warm quick and the bite when cold is not bad at all, also very quiet so far. My experience on track with the pads is just one track day and they held good compared with the original M Sport pads. The dust is just a little bit more.

My first track day with the F30's M Sport stock brake pads was not a pleasant experience. During session, after warming lap they held 2 fast laps and overheated /only 2,2 kilometers track/. According to the telemetry on the 1st fast lap max lateral G reached was 1.08 stopping from 180+ km/h to 70 km/h for heft hander on street tyres and traction control fully off. The 2nd fast lap max lateral G was 0.86 on the same corner due to overheated pads. On the same track with the Ferodo's I had constant braking power and no problems doing 3 consecutive fast laps /6 sessions/. After inspecting the pads after that track day, they looked OK.

Of course, if you intend to go often to track, your best option is to have dedicated pads to swap and do cleaning and bedding procedures.

[B5QShip]

I ran stop tech sport at a tight slower track and they did ok with my fully stock setup. Let's say they weren't the limiting factor - aside from the driver of course. I would step up to a true track pad on a faster track and with any mods. I kept them on for the street and am very happy. They're a little dusty but no noise and the car finally feels like it can stop — vs OEM it's just night and day.

FWIW, I have 1-pot rears and pad selection is really poor. This was part of the reason I went with the stop tech pads.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by B5QShip

I ran stop tech sport at a tight slower track and they did ok with my fully stock setup. Let's say they weren't the limiting factor - aside from the driver of course. I would step up to a true track pad on a faster track and with any mods. I kept them on for the street and am very happy. They're a little dusty but no noise and the car finally feels like it can stop — vs OEM it's just night and day.

FWIW, I have 1-pot rears and pad selection is really poor. This was part of the reason I went with the stop tech pads.

I had ST Sport on E90 and modulation is worse than any OEM pad like ATE, Jurid, Textar. I never tried OEM pads on track, but wouldn't be surprised if they perform better than ST Sport.

[B5QShip]

Not going to claim to be an expert nor have deep experience yet on this platform — but have run various aggressive street pads on other cars in the past and was pleasantly surprised with initial bite and feel of ST sport. not apples to apples obviously but have run Ferrodo DS2500s, Hawk HPS and HP+, and various OEM on street and track and AutoX. I guess there's some degree of personal preference with this stuff, but not at all a fan of OEM on my 340 on the street. Look forward to trying some other options in the future for comparison.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by B5QShip

Not going to claim to be an expert nor have deep experience yet on this platform — but have run various aggressive street pads on other cars in the past and was pleasantly surprised with initial bite and feel of ST sport. not apples to apples obviously but have run Ferrodo DS2500s, Hawk HPS and HP+, and various OEM on street and track and AutoX. I guess there's some degree of personal preference with this stuff, but not at all a fan of OEM on my 340 on the street. Look forward to trying some other options in the future for comparison.

OK, one thing I was really displeased on F30 platform (besides horrible steering and Lexus like suspension on base model) are pads and lack of aggressive bite like E90 and previous generations had.so, my take on ST is coming from E90, not F30 platform.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by edycol

OK, one thing I was really displeased on F30 platform (besides horrible steering and Lexus like suspension on base model) are pads and lack of aggressive bite like E90 and previous generations had.so, my take on ST is coming from E90, not F30 platform.

OEM are street pads designed for comfort, noise reduction, predictability, and cold to warm performance. You need track pads to perform anywhere nearly competitively especially when the heat starts to climb.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by jmg

OEM are street pads designed for comfort, noise reduction, predictability, and cold to warm performance. You need track pads to perform anywhere nearly competitively especially when the heat starts to climb.

F30 pads on regular models have different compound than previous BMW's. It is in line with nature of F30 which was BMW attempt, at horror of traditional BMW owners, to please drivers of Lexus, Audi, Mercedes etc. it tried to be everything for everyone.
What pads one need for track depends on track. Some tracks don't require track pads, some are ok with street/track pads such as EBC yellowstuff, DS2500 etc. Some need RSL etc.
The ST Sport on E90 actually dust less and are less aggressive than OE or OEM pads.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by edycol

F30 pads on regular models have different compound than previous BMW's. It is in line with nature of F30 which was BMW attempt, at horror of traditional BMW owners, to please drivers of Lexus, Audi, Mercedes etc. it tried to be everything for everyone.
What pads one need for track depends on track. Some tracks don't require track pads, some are ok with street/track pads such as EBC yellowstuff, DS2500 etc. Some need RSL etc.
The ST Sport on E90 actually dust less and are less aggressive than OE or OEM pads.

I wouldn't track with any OEM pads on current, F30 or previous 3 series either, and I think that was the thinking with the F30. That's what I meant by "track pads", which in this case includes street/track pads like the ones you mentioned.

The F30 was not the drivers car the E90 was and it has to shift with the times. The reasoning being, ff someone was going to take it to the track, they would change the pads anyway, so might as well give them a pad that works best for the street. I'm not saying it was a good or bad decision, just that it was a decision.

As far as the StopTechs Sports I don't know those pads, but if they are track oriented then I would expect better performance than E90 factory pads at higher temps and worse performance at lower temps. "Less aggressive" is too broad a term for something like brakes for tracking. At what temp? Aggressive brakes at low temp are near useless on the track. Aggressive brakes at high temp are dangerous on the street where you never get the brakes into operating temps.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by jmg

I wouldn't track with any OEM pads on current, F30 or previous 3 series either, and I think that was the thinking with the F30. That's what I meant by "track pads", which in this case includes street/track pads like the ones you mentioned.

The F30 was not the drivers car the E90 was and it has to shift with the times. The reasoning being, ff someone was going to take it to the track, they would change the pads anyway, so might as well give them a pad that works best for the street. I'm not saying it was a good or bad decision, just that it was a decision.

As far as the StopTechs Sports I don't know those pads, but if they are track oriented then I would expect better performance than E90 factory pads at higher temps and worse performance at lower temps. "Less aggressive" is too broad a term for something like brakes for tracking. At what temp? Aggressive brakes at low temp are near useless on the track. Aggressive brakes at high temp are dangerous on the street where you never get the brakes into operating temps.

Nah, the StopTech are just not having a good bite at all. For example, I have YellowSTuff on 328 now, and they actually in summer perform well on car. No noise, very good bite, and keep that bite on track. Very good modulation both on street and track.
StopTech is ok on street, ok modulation (not even close to ATE or Jurid). But, on track same issues continue. Poor modulation, no bite, etc. On top of that, I managed to disintegrate backing plates on them. I guess they might be a good, cheap option for some cars on certain tracks. One thing about my E90 328 is that it has an oil cooler from 335, so it can stay on track pretty much forever, which puts a lot of strain on pads.
As for F30, F30 has I think 3 different compounds for 335 so it depends on the model. But, it is as I said, an attempt to be everything for everyone. Good thing they went a different route with G20, minus no stick.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by edycol

Nah, the StopTech are just not having a good bite at all. For example, I have YellowSTuff on 328 now, and they actually in summer perform well on car. No noise, very good bite, and keep that bite on track. Very good modulation both on street and track.
StopTech is ok on street, ok modulation (not even close to ATE or Jurid). But, on track same issues continue. Poor modulation, no bite, etc. On top of that, I managed to disintegrate backing plates on them. I guess they might be a good, cheap option for some cars on certain tracks. One thing about my E90 328 is that it has an oil cooler from 335, so it can stay on track pretty much forever, which puts a lot of strain on pads.
As for F30, F30 has I think 3 different compounds for 335 so it depends on the model. But, it is as I said, an attempt to be everything for everyone. Good thing they went a different route with G20, minus no stick.

Maybe the Stoptechs just suck? I know the brand, but I don't see many people at my local events using them except one and he cooked them at Big Willow.

FYI The F30 340i with Track Package also had the fog delete and extra heat exchanger. I don't know what brakes they came with. I only had mine for a few months then traded it for an F80.

[B5QShip]

FWIW I ran the ST Sports at Streets of Willow and I only noticed some minor fade on one lap. It was my first event in a while and first in this car so wasn't pushing too hard and the car was bone stock on RFTs. I wouldn't take those pads to Big Willow even on my setup.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by B5QShip

FWIW I ran the ST Sports at Streets of Willow and I only noticed some minor fade on one lap. It was my first event in a while and first in this car so wasn't pushing too hard and the car was bone stock on RFTs. I wouldn't take those pads to Big Willow even on my setup.

What kind of runflats? Stickier tires will place more demand on the brakes, running your RFFs helped. Streets has 3 big brake zones, so not too bad on brakes either.