04-23-2012, 10:10 PM | #199 | |
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thats like me saying VW is a repackaged lamborghini, sounds pretty crazy....
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04-24-2012, 07:40 AM | #200 |
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There was a post on here a couple months ago when the F30 came out that had it next to the "old" 3 series -- people on this forum were arguing about which was which....if people on this BMW forum can't tell the difference....
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04-24-2012, 10:30 AM | #201 | |
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"It's the relationship with VW that gives them a 2nd tier perception compared to BMW, Mercedes, Lexus. It shouldn't matter but it's the perception that I have seen and heard. " So which is it, make up your mind. Its not that Mercedes and BMW doesnt want to make low price cars, its just that they dont have the know how. So which $15000 mid size sedan would you rather have than the Jetta? A Corolla, or maybe a Hyundai Accent? |
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04-24-2012, 10:34 AM | #202 | |
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Also, I can't imagine anyone wanting the current non GLI Jetta. What a turd. The Civic, Focus and Mazda 3 would all be hugely better than a Jetta. |
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04-24-2012, 10:47 AM | #203 | |
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As for cars that I would rather have for around $15k? A Mazda 3, a Honda Civic, a Kia Forte, Hyundai Elantra, Subaru Impreza, Ford Focus, etc. etc. etc. It's all personal preference.
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04-24-2012, 12:32 PM | #204 | |
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So I guess if you are not that into cars or not really obsessed with design like I bet most of us here are they do look similar... |
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04-24-2012, 02:17 PM | #205 | |
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04-24-2012, 02:26 PM | #206 | |
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VW makes much cheaper cars than the Jetta, the Lupo and Fox for example and uses SEAT and Skoda to effectively move further down market than VW's ROW image. |
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04-24-2012, 04:20 PM | #207 |
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With respect to my comment on the VW Group supply chain....someone responded that because Audi is part of the VW Supply chain it pulls the Audi brand down......really?
Porsche + Lambo are also part of the VW Group supply chain. Also Rolls Royce is part of the BMW supply chain. Being a part of the VW Group Supply chain does not pull down the brand of Audi, Porsche or Lamborghini. It gives them ACCESS to parts at LESS cost. What can hurt a brand is poor design, poor manufacturing quality, or putting cheaper materials into your luxury brand that are shared with the entry brand. To this I say....have you gotten into a driven an R8, S5 vert., S4 or Porsche 911, new Boxster S? When you did....did you think...Ah yes...Jetta? I think not. |
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04-24-2012, 04:33 PM | #208 | |
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I didn't say anything about the supply chain. I didn't call Audi a 2nd tier company. I did discuss that a lot of people I know perceive Audi as less prestigious that other luxury brands due to: Their well known association with VW.......their reliability issues 5-10 years ago.....and that the A4/S4 looks very similar to a Jetta (although VW likely copied the Audi). These are all facts. Hell, the VW and Audi parts have both logos stamped on them so it's obvioulsy not a secret. It's great business economically. It just has its upsides and downsides. Please respond to posts only after you have read them and don't say "someone responded....and then make things up."
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04-24-2012, 05:10 PM | #209 | |
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04-24-2012, 05:15 PM | #210 |
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I might be wrong but the last time I checked most German car manufacturers share the same suppliers.
Bosch, Hella, Borg-warner, etc Isn't the Volkswagen group the largest car manufacturer? http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/auto...est-automaker/ S4 and 335 are both really nice cars from two respectable brands BMW and Audi. Everyone should just go to their local dealer and test drive both cars with an open mind then come back and make a civil discussion because right now this seems to be a bashing thread.
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04-24-2012, 05:18 PM | #211 | |
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04-24-2012, 06:32 PM | #212 | |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes_a_class |
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04-25-2012, 12:41 AM | #213 | |
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Also, the new A Class looks a good bit different than the original and wouldn't be a bad choice if you were in that market. Of course we're both on an F30 forum, so this all seems a bit silly. |
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04-25-2012, 09:55 AM | #214 | |
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My original point was that Audi and Lexus should not be considered lesser of a brand just because they are associated with VW and Toyota. After reading your post, I now think that BMW and Mercedes should be considered lesser of a brand because they are associated with the Mini and the A-class |
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04-25-2012, 10:15 AM | #215 | |
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I mentioned the Mini One, not a US spec Cooper. The A Class would not be $23k with US pricing, as even your beloved Jetta starts at 17k pounds (albeit with nicer ROW specs, not the solid axle US spec). Further, as already stated, there's a new A-Class coming that may even make it to the US. But to your point that Audi and Lexus aren't diluted by being associated with VW and Toyota, I generally do agree with that. Of course VW also has Skoda and SEAT to drag them down, and Toyota has Scion too. I don't buy cars based on brands, if Hyundai continues building great cars, I'll probably own one of those at some point, and if BMW keeps building heavy, electronically assisted cars with minimal feedback, I'll probably stop buying those too. |
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04-25-2012, 11:35 AM | #216 |
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I think GM is still the largest auto manufacturer worldwide...with Toyota and VW Group very close behind.
I agree with the poster who said--Audi and BMW are both GREAT brands. You should test drive both the S4 and the F30 335i and see what you think. But to eliminate the S4 test drive because of the VW connection is just cheating yourself. Audi is making some great cars--especially in their S, R, and RS lines. Their designs are both GERMAN (strong, , slightly aggressive) and MODERN/TECH. If Audi designs had to be compared to a technology company...it would compare to Apple. Take the S5....not a line out of place. The R8 V10 spyder...that thing will still be gorgeous in 100 years. Clean...modern...functional designs...beautiful. Audi interiors always have fit and finish beyond customer expectations. Both Audi and Apple make products that could be show cased in a museum of modern art. BMW....as we all know....has struggled to regain that clean, beautiful, slightly aggressive GERMAN design....ala E46 M3 (both hard top and vert)...or the Z8...or the E39 M5....or last generation M6/650i (hardtop vert.) Cabin fit and finish suffering....remember the refresh of the E90/E92 when they just removed the beautiful wood trim cover off the center console change dish? Those pennywise decisions made at BMW are viewed as pound foolish at companies like Audi and Apple. BMWs....suffering from Bangle hangover....has got to get back to beautiful German design...and when I mean slightly aggressive...I do not mean dropping the nose ala F30. I mean showing muscle through slightly bulging fenders ala E46 M3...just a hint of something special. Gee whiz BMW used to be the ABSOLUTE BEST at that! Now we get the new 650i--FAT and NO PASSION...3 series verts with clunky folding hard tops that destroy the beautiful lines of the car...(e46 verts were as, if not more beautiful, than their hard top bretheren) or the GT. What the heck happened??? I look at the BMW show room....I think...... BMW is strictly targeting men age 55-65 who play golf at the country club. |
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04-25-2012, 02:32 PM | #217 | |
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My debate with another poster, before you butted in, was about BMW and Mercedes not able to built a quality mid size sedans for $15000. Thats a dollar sign I used, not pounds. I dont think Skoda and SEAT drag down VW either, just like Audi is not drag down by VW and Toyota is not drag down by Scion. About the only thing we agree on is that one should not buy a car based on the brand name. Hyundai is making some nice cars, but their dealership network is few and far in between and customer service is terrible. |
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04-25-2012, 02:33 PM | #218 | |
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BMW's reputation was unmatched in th 80's 90's and 00's. They made the best cars. Unfortunately that is now enough to sell cars.
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04-25-2012, 05:48 PM | #219 | |
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Just because to you, the E90 was such a "downgrade", it doesn't mean that BMW targeting the older population. You also just can't say bmw isn't focused on design and performance because you didn't like the exterior and interior. Dramatic much? |
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04-26-2012, 11:53 AM | #220 |
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You can do a search, but mgmt made a commitment to Lamborghini owners that they would not exceed 30% Audi parts in their vehicles. Audi is doing all the right things and I expect better design using lighter materials going forward. They have the engineering resources and some of the best Italian designers from Lamborghini and the recently acquired Ducati brand.
FYI: Audi AG acquired Ducati, not VW. Audi's parent company is no longer VAG but is now known as IAG because Porsche and VW has equal shares. |
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