04-22-2012, 05:15 PM | #177 | |
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04-22-2012, 05:58 PM | #178 | |
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04-23-2012, 11:14 AM | #179 | |
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04-23-2012, 11:29 AM | #180 | |
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04-23-2012, 02:57 PM | #181 | |
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BMW does play around with the lease numbers, that’s why they lease cars at such a high volume. |
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04-23-2012, 03:15 PM | #182 | |
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1) It's the relationship with VW that gives them a 2nd tier perception compared to BMW, Mercedes, Lexus. It shouldn't matter but it's the perception that I have seen and heard. 2) Audi (and VW) had some pretty bad reliability issues a few years back and it is pretty well known. Audi has greatly increased their reliability but it will take a little while to recover. 3) Their designs (on their higher volume cars) are just not as sexy as BMW or mercedes. The mid-90s A4 was very plain and IMO ugly. The recent A4 is much nicer but still looks to maintstream (and too much like a Jetta).
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04-23-2012, 04:24 PM | #183 |
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Audi has been coming out with the best looking car models over the last 5 years hands down--
The R8 The R8 V10 Spyder The S5/ RS5 The A5/S5 vert (which kept the rag top--letting you have a trunk too!!) The S4 The new TT RS The A7/S7 (Compare that to the BMW GT) The new A6 An S8 Have you seen the new ALL LED headlights on the new A6, A7, A8? Just talking headlights....BMW use to OWN the cool head light segment with Xenon plus Angel eyes...Audi came in and took over the WOW factor by INNOVATING with LEDS....where was BMW....out designing the GT...while Audi was designing the A7. In comparison BMW has been struggling to get back to designing cars that had pure, bold, GERMAN, holistic design....with the right hint of aggression.. Remember the SHEER BEAUTY of the E46M3, the E46 330i with ZSP, the Z8 (in its own way as gorgeous as the Audi R8), and in my opinion the last 650i vert. Heck the simple GERMAN beauty of the E 39 Five series. Cars where EVERYTHING about the design just works...then, now, forever. I think Audi is closer to that today with the R8, A7, S5 vert, RS5 than anything at BMW. Look at the new 6 series...does that really get your blood pumping? Look at the GT Perhaps its a Bangel hang over... But BMW has to get back to designs that make you salivate ala Z8.....or the E46M3!!! |
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04-23-2012, 04:59 PM | #184 |
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Audi Supply Chain vs BMW
Those who "knock" Audi's relationship with VW, Porsche, Lambo, do not understand the concept of supply chain.
When the VW Group goes out to an automotive supplier their VOLUME dictates price across components both shared and unshared...by VW, Audi, Porsche, etc. For example....if VW, Porsche, Audi, all use a common fuse for the dash lighting....they get a much better price than independent BMW because of Volume. Their volume gets the VW Group the same part as BMW but for much less. But it does not end there...if that supplier also sells a part unique to Audi...an LED assembly....Audi can get that for lower cost than if they were independant based on the volume buys of the VW group. The savings across the VW Group have a rippling effect across the ENTIRE supply chain. The savings can then go to: R&D Higher quality materials in the cabins--why the Audi materials always seem better. Shareholder value So I think we all know that to compete...BMW will have to start forming alliances...with Nissan or some other manufacturer to increase volumes across their supply chain to compete. The result if they do not-- You will get LESS for paying MORE for a BMW. Its just that simple. So do not knock the VW connection....it allows Audi to build quality at lower cost!! That is the true reason the fit, finish, and LEDs are so good at Audi. |
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04-23-2012, 05:12 PM | #185 | |
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04-23-2012, 05:15 PM | #186 | |
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04-23-2012, 05:44 PM | #187 |
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The side profile is certainly similar, in abstract, but when studied in detail, it is quite different. The difference between the detailed side view of a B5/B6/B7 and B8 A4/S4 is much smaller though. Aside from the horse collar front end and some fancy headlight and taillight designs, Audi hasn't really moved on from the Peter Scheylling designs. Kind of a pity, since they've come a tremendous way from the sloppy dynamics of the B5 A4's I owned. The A5/S5 being the one exception to this, which is nearly perfect in everything but interior space; if it wasn't for the terrible packaging and the slow switch over from the old, anemic V8 to the supercharged V6, we would have certainly bought an S5 coupe instead of the 135i.
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04-23-2012, 06:13 PM | #188 | |
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04-23-2012, 06:20 PM | #189 | |
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It was sort of supposed to replace my Z3 M Coupe, but didn't really win me over, so it remained my wife's car. I sold my M Coupe and haven't really decided what to replace it with. We need family friendly cars, and the F31 and a Golf R are the current leading candidates, or the wife may get an F30 and I might skip the practical part and get the new Boxster S or try to find a used Boxster Spyder. |
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04-23-2012, 06:23 PM | #190 | |
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04-23-2012, 07:03 PM | #191 | |
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04-23-2012, 07:26 PM | #192 |
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The new Boxter is soooooooooooooooo pretty
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04-23-2012, 07:35 PM | #193 | |
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If I didn't have a wife and kids, I 'd order a new Boxster rightaway. Great car.
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Exactly what I was saying about the dynamic sport diff. It's practically like a rwd BMW(kudos to Audi to get that fwd based platform work the way it does at last) but with less feel. That's what I meant. I recall a Dutch test mentioning how grippy the S4 felt , but also less playable than the 335i. To each their own. Cheers Robin |
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04-23-2012, 08:07 PM | #194 | |
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I tell you what, let me know next time BMW or Mercedes can built a quality $15000 mid size sedan like VW and we will talk again. |
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04-23-2012, 08:30 PM | #195 | |
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just like infiniti is a nicely wrapped nissan
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04-23-2012, 08:41 PM | #196 | |
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On your 2nd statement, totally agree. I persuaded a friend to buy a base Jetta (previous model not the current one) for about $15,000 and it was a great car, exceptionally well built. |
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04-23-2012, 08:59 PM | #197 | |
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Oh, and Mercedes and BMW don't want to make $15,000 cars because they want to be known only as prestigious and high end. and I hope you aren't talking about a stripped Jetta because there are a lot of other cars i and the rest of the world would rather have for $15k.
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04-23-2012, 09:54 PM | #198 |
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If Audi is just a repackaged Volkswagen, then BMW is a repackaged Mini because I read somewhere that BMW and Mini will soon be sharing the same platforms for some new front wheel drives models.
I don't knock Audi for having the VW relationship. If you're fresh out of college, have your first job, still paying your student loans, and saving for a downpayment for your first house, which car would you buy new? You can't say BMW because most young people in that situation can't afford a brand new BMW. Are you going to buy a brand new Toyota Corola? I know my friends would laugh at me if I drove one. Volkswagen is the logical choice in my mind, particularly if you have a favoritism towards European cars. A used BMW isn't practical because while it may be cheap to purchase at first, the out-of-warranty costs would kill your wallet in the long run. So the only cheap brand new car with a factory warranty that I would buy fresh out of college is a VW. Then when that person earns more money in life, it's a natural progression to move up to an Audi, because they've already been VW owners. It makes sense to me. |
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