BimmerTech - Amp Upgrade - HiFi Only (F3x / F8x)

Serpent720 · 06-22-2015, 12:06 AM

After playing around with the v2.93 for 4 days and studying the EQ cheat sheet
http://www.cheatography.com/fredv/cheat-sheets/eq-tips/,
then following the setup procedure http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/files...Guide_Vol1.pdf
and putting the head unit setting (bass/treble/fader/balance) in neutral positions.

I've finally found a setting that I really like.

Car Type: F31 RHD (You may need to change the L/R speaker delay/distance for LHD car)
HiFi 676
Front Door: Bavsound (Mid + Tweeter)
Front Centre: Bavsound (Mid)
Rear Door: Focal IFBMW-C
Underseat: Factory Sub
Amp: Bimmertech PP82DSP

Highly appreciated JNoSol's review which got me upgraded to the BimmerTech PP82 DSP/amplifier.
Thanks Patryk for his advice and support.

Feel free to try out my .afp setting and use the 2.93 to load the DSP setup file.
Just re-name the *.pdf to *.afp after download.

TURN VOLUME to Zero before loading any file.

(Do not use 3.11c to convert this file to .afpx)

Cheers

obriennathaniel · 06-22-2015, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpent720

After playing around with the v2.93 for 4 days and studying the EQ cheat sheet
http://www.cheatography.com/fredv/cheat-sheets/eq-tips/,
then following the setup procedure http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/files...Guide_Vol1.pdf
and putting the head unit setting (bass/treble/fader/balance) in neutral positions.

I've finally found a setting that I really like.

Car Type: F31 RHD (You may need to change the L/R speaker delay/distance for LHD car)
HiFi 676
Front Door: Bavsound (Mid + Tweeter)
Front Centre: Bavsound (Mid)
Rear Door: Focal IFBMW-C
Underseat: Factory Sub
Amp: Bimmertech PP82DSP

Highly appreciated JNoSol's review which got me upgraded to the BimmerTech PP82 DSP/amplifier.
Thanks Patryk for his advice and support.

Feel free to try out my .afp setting and use the 2.93 to load the DSP setup file.
Just re-name the *.pdf to *.afp after download.
(Do not use 3.11c to convert this file to .afpx)

Cheers

ill give it a shot when i get my stuff in

Drew46 · 06-24-2015, 12:24 AM

I'll give your tuning file a shot tomorrow and provide feedback!

While I'm at it, I'll also add that I've driven around for a week with active sound (ASD) on and off with this upgrade. Ultimately, I've chosen to turn it off because for some reason the extra power and/or frequency changes of the enhanced audio seem to boost the piped-in engine noise to a level that causes too much resonance and actually degrades the audio quality.

I spent some time searching around on forums and other internet locations to understand how the ASD module fits in the signal chain and it looks like on a MY2015 F30 with 676 Hifi, it's between the head and the amp with no volume control: it's either on or off.

My guess is the OEM amp has some level of signal processing that sorts out the resonance and/or sends the engine sound only to certain speakers. Does anybody happen to have any more detailed information on what we might do either with EQ or signal routing to prevent the resonance?

All and all, I'm really enjoying the improved audio and the ability to tune the acoustics. I have just started using RTA to do some analysis and identifying further opportunities to refine the sound.

Serpent720 · 06-24-2015, 06:38 AM

Thanks Drew46.

Yes, please.

My setting is good for certain songs, but not for all songs.
I would like to get more comments to improve my settings.

Drew46 · 06-24-2015, 10:31 PM

@Serpent270: I tried your file and it looks like you've nicely equalized the various channels and gain levels closer to reference levels so nice job there!

In my car, this profile tends to be a little bright for my ears but this is yet another starting point for further tuning. When I get more time, I'm going to see if I can boost the bass to my taste.

I just realized you have the BavSounds installed so I'm betting that's a key difference. It also *really* helps me understand the impact of those drivers compared to OEM and what the overall timbre balance will be if/when I upgrade.

I did notice that across the board the gain values for each channel in your profile are 4-5 db lower than the OEM default .afp file. Do you find the Bavsounds are more efficient and do not need the extra gain for equivalent volume? (That is, if you ever tested the upgrade with the old OEM speakers!)

Drew46 · 06-24-2015, 10:57 PM

I promised to send some pictures along and after finally reviewing them, the pictures at the beginning of this thread are much better than the way mine turned out so I'm only adding a few to the collection.

Before I get to the pix: The only word of caution on installation I can add is to be careful about pulling the fastener that holds the cubby insert (two storage areas separated by a foam insert). It looks like it's one of the 7 or so plastic ones used to pull all of the other trim parts, but it is actually quite different. When I attempted to pry it out, the head popped off like a donut and I then had to drill it out to remove it.

Honestly, you can probably get away with the install without removing that piece but you'd have to bend some of the insulation and trim parts in strange ways to do so. Use patience

As to the pix, here are a couple of the OEM amp before removal and then another after being removed from the car and taken out of the bracket. This amp appears to be much smaller than the one at the beginning of the thread so I was hesitant that BMW had made a change and I was going to run into a PnP issue. Luckily I did not! This is the amp that shipped in my MY15 328i with an early March build date.

Cheers!

Drew46 · 06-24-2015, 11:01 PM

Ok, one more question:

I'm still looking for deeper bass (not loud, deeper!) than what I think the OEM woofer can provide. Would this upgrade power some SWS-8xi's ok? Is there a better woofer/match for this upgrade that I should consider given that I need trunk space and can't go with a trunk mounted sub?

obriennathaniel · 06-24-2015, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew46

Ok, one more question:

I'm still looking for deeper bass (not loud, deeper!) than what I think the OEM woofer can provide. Would this upgrade power some SWS-8xi's ok? Is there a better woofer/match for this upgrade that I should consider given that I need trunk space and can't go with a trunk mounted sub?

ill be installing everything this Saturday and I will let you know (bimmertech amp, BavSound Stage 1 and the SWS subs)

Drew46 · 06-24-2015, 11:21 PM

Awesome! Please keep us posted! The BavSounds are another upgrade I'm considering!

Quote:

Originally Posted by obriennathaniel

ill be installing everything this Saturday and I will let you know (bimmertech amp, BavSound Stage 1 and the SWS subs)

obriennathaniel · 06-24-2015, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew46

Awesome! Please keep us posted! The BavSounds are another upgrade I'm considering!

sure thing! I got them when they were on sale for dirt cheap. I would consider them a must with the upgraded amp.

Serpent720 · 06-25-2015, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew46

@Serpent270: I tried your file and it looks like you've nicely equalized the various channels and gain levels closer to reference levels so nice job there!

In my car, this profile tends to be a little bright for my ears but this is yet another starting point for further tuning. When I get more time, I'm going to see if I can boost the bass to my taste.

I just realized you have the BavSounds installed so I'm betting that's a key difference. It also *really* helps me understand the impact of those drivers compared to OEM and what the overall timbre balance will be if/when I upgrade.

I did notice that across the board the gain values for each channel in your profile are 4-5 db lower than the OEM default .afp file. Do you find the Bavsounds are more efficient and do not need the extra gain for equivalent volume? (That is, if you ever tested the upgrade with the old OEM speakers!)

Thank you so much

Drew46

I did not test with the OEM speakers, because BSW has a stronger Mid-Bass and smoother tweeter.

I agree with you, and I am trying to find a setting to trim the treble a little and I am also working on the vocal freq. to make it more applicable to cover most of my favor songs.

For setting up the GAIN in the speakers, I was following the setup menu to turn the head-unit volume at 100% and slowly increased the channel gain until I heard the distortion from the speakers. I noticed that at -5.5 dB, the BSW speakers started to have a little bit of distortion in the tweeter, so I back off a little to set it at -6dB. Then I used the same GAIN setting for the front-mid BSW speaker.

Interestingly, I found the Focal IFBMW can take up to -4.5dB without any distortion at 100% Head-unit volume. My Focal speakers are used for the rear channels, so I set it to -7dB for the rear setup to keep the front stage effect.

After all, I love the BSW (Mid + tweeter) sound which is comparatively smoother than FOCAL from low to mid-high volume, and I do not often turn my music too loud in my car.

If you finish your tune, I would love to try your setting too.

Keep us posted about your progress

Thanks

JNoSol · 06-25-2015, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew46

I promised to send some pictures along and after finally reviewing them, the pictures at the beginning of this thread are much better than the way mine turned out so I'm only adding a few to the collection.

Thanks. I used a Canon 60D with 50mm USM 1.4 lens. It makes everything looks like ice cream.

JNoSol · 06-25-2015, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obriennathaniel

sure thing! I got them when they were on sale for dirt cheap. I would consider them a must with the upgraded amp.

Those SWS are $119 each. Did you get them cheaper? Please share. Also, is 2ohm compatible with our amps? I haven't played with the setting to see if you can have the subs at 2ohm or 4ohm.

http://www.amazon.com/Earthquake-Sou.../dp/B003R5NS9U

JNoSol · 06-25-2015, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpent720

After playing around with the v2.93 for 4 days and studying the EQ cheat sheet
http://www.cheatography.com/fredv/cheat-sheets/eq-tips/,
then following the setup procedure http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/files...Guide_Vol1.pdf
and putting the head unit setting (bass/treble/fader/balance) in neutral positions.

I've finally found a setting that I really like.

Car Type: F31 RHD (You may need to change the L/R speaker delay/distance for LHD car)
HiFi 676
Front Door: Bavsound (Mid + Tweeter)
Front Centre: Bavsound (Mid)
Rear Door: Focal IFBMW-C
Underseat: Factory Sub
Amp: Bimmertech PP82DSP

Highly appreciated JNoSol's review which got me upgraded to the BimmerTech PP82 DSP/amplifier.
Thanks Patryk for his advice and support.

Feel free to try out my .afp setting and use the 2.93 to load the DSP setup file.
Just re-name the *.pdf to *.afp after download.

TURN VOLUME to Zero before loading any file.

(Do not use 3.11c to convert this file to .afpx)

Cheers

Just loaded the files for my F80. The tune is very good, provides very warm music in the cabin. This tune provides the bass I needed, very warm bass. I like a little bit more highs in my music (love the trebles), so I'll spend some time on it after this track weekend. Thanks again.

Serpent720 · 06-25-2015, 11:05 PM

Thank you very much Jimmy, and I am glad you like it.
FYI...
I am working another setting to provide a softer and warmer feel.
WIll let you know once I finish.

Cheers

Drew46 · 06-26-2015, 12:23 PM

My Panasonic point & shoot doesn't quite stack up to that

Quote:

Originally Posted by JNoSol

Thanks. I used a Canon 60D with 50mm USM 1.4 lens. It makes everything looks like ice cream.

Serpent720 · 06-26-2015, 03:05 PM

Just updated the setting file to v1.3 in my original post.
I think this one is better than v1.2.
Cheers

strig1 · 06-29-2015, 10:52 AM

What kind of improvement would this yield from someone who has a JL XD600/6 and Bavsound speakers. You think worth selling the JL and buying this or just keep what i have?

Technic · 06-29-2015, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strig1

What kind of improvement would this yield from someone who has a JL XD600/6 and Bavsound speakers. You think worth selling the JL and buying this or just keep what i have?

The XD600/6 is louder (more power output) than the PP82DSP, but it does not compare with the clarity, stereo separation and tunability of the PP82DSP.

You want the best of both worlds? Get a Helix DSP with your XD600/6. If you want the center speaker then replace the XD600/6 with a XD800/8.

strig1 · 06-29-2015, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

You want the best of both worlds? Get a Helix DSP with your XD600/6. If you want the center speaker then replace the XD600/6 with a XD800/8.

I like the loudness/power from the XD600/6 but my problem with it is it sounds like a compilation of untuned sounds. How easy is adding the helix DSP and how hard is it to tune?

Technic · 06-29-2015, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strig1

I like the loudness/power from the XD600/6 but my problem with it is it sounds like a compilation of untuned sounds. How easy is adding the helix DSP and how hard is it to tune?

The Helix DSP uses the same fundamental tuning software as the PP82DSP.

Go to the Helix website and take a look...

obriennathaniel · 06-29-2015, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JNoSol

Those SWS are $119 each. Did you get them cheaper? Please share. Also, is 2ohm compatible with our amps? I haven't played with the setting to see if you can have the subs at 2ohm or 4ohm.

http://www.amazon.com/Earthquake-Sou.../dp/B003R5NS9U

Thats my fault, I was referring to the Bav Sounds Stage 1 setup. but I did however get the 2 subs and the rings for $230 in one kit, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o01_s00 , but they raised the price, still cheaper by a few dollars though.

I got them installed yesterday but havent had a chance to tune anything though, but even with the base tune that it came with was a world of a difference! The bass has a lot more punch to it, and im sure with tuning Ill be able to get the lows out of it, and the mids and highs are just incredible! I felt like I was sitting in a whole different car lol. I used to do custom car audio installations and this was by far the easiest one Ive ever done in my life lol.

06-24-2015, 12:24 AM	#91
Drew46 Enlisted Member 30 Rep 33 Posts Drives: 2015 328i Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: SF Bay Area iTrader: (0)	I'll give your tuning file a shot tomorrow and provide feedback! While I'm at it, I'll also add that I've driven around for a week with active sound (ASD) on and off with this upgrade. Ultimately, I've chosen to turn it off because for some reason the extra power and/or frequency changes of the enhanced audio seem to boost the piped-in engine noise to a level that causes too much resonance and actually degrades the audio quality. I spent some time searching around on forums and other internet locations to understand how the ASD module fits in the signal chain and it looks like on a MY2015 F30 with 676 Hifi, it's between the head and the amp with no volume control: it's either on or off. My guess is the OEM amp has some level of signal processing that sorts out the resonance and/or sends the engine sound only to certain speakers. Does anybody happen to have any more detailed information on what we might do either with EQ or signal routing to prevent the resonance? All and all, I'm really enjoying the improved audio and the ability to tune the acoustics. I have just started using RTA to do some analysis and identifying further opportunities to refine the sound.
	Appreciate 3 Quote

06-24-2015, 06:38 AM	#92
Serpent720 Private 47 Rep 66 Posts Drives: F31 328i Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Hong Kong iTrader: (0)	Thanks Drew46. Yes, please. My setting is good for certain songs, but not for all songs. I would like to get more comments to improve my settings.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-24-2015, 10:31 PM	#93
Drew46 Enlisted Member 30 Rep 33 Posts Drives: 2015 328i Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: SF Bay Area iTrader: (0)	@Serpent270: I tried your file and it looks like you've nicely equalized the various channels and gain levels closer to reference levels so nice job there! In my car, this profile tends to be a little bright for my ears but this is yet another starting point for further tuning. When I get more time, I'm going to see if I can boost the bass to my taste. I just realized you have the BavSounds installed so I'm betting that's a key difference. It also really helps me understand the impact of those drivers compared to OEM and what the overall timbre balance will be if/when I upgrade. I did notice that across the board the gain values for each channel in your profile are 4-5 db lower than the OEM default .afp file. Do you find the Bavsounds are more efficient and do not need the extra gain for equivalent volume? (That is, if you ever tested the upgrade with the old OEM speakers!) Last edited by Drew46; 06-24-2015 at 10:36 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-24-2015, 10:57 PM	#94
Drew46 Enlisted Member 30 Rep 33 Posts Drives: 2015 328i Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: SF Bay Area iTrader: (0)	I promised to send some pictures along and after finally reviewing them, the pictures at the beginning of this thread are much better than the way mine turned out so I'm only adding a few to the collection. Before I get to the pix: The only word of caution on installation I can add is to be careful about pulling the fastener that holds the cubby insert (two storage areas separated by a foam insert). It looks like it's one of the 7 or so plastic ones used to pull all of the other trim parts, but it is actually quite different. When I attempted to pry it out, the head popped off like a donut and I then had to drill it out to remove it. Honestly, you can probably get away with the install without removing that piece but you'd have to bend some of the insulation and trim parts in strange ways to do so. Use patience As to the pix, here are a couple of the OEM amp before removal and then another after being removed from the car and taken out of the bracket. This amp appears to be much smaller than the one at the beginning of the thread so I was hesitant that BMW had made a change and I was going to run into a PnP issue. Luckily I did not! This is the amp that shipped in my MY15 328i with an early March build date. Cheers! Attached Images
	Appreciate 1 Quote

06-24-2015, 11:01 PM	#95
Drew46 Enlisted Member 30 Rep 33 Posts Drives: 2015 328i Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: SF Bay Area iTrader: (0)	Ok, one more question: I'm still looking for deeper bass (not loud, deeper!) than what I think the OEM woofer can provide. Would this upgrade power some SWS-8xi's ok? Is there a better woofer/match for this upgrade that I should consider given that I need trunk space and can't go with a trunk mounted sub?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-25-2015, 11:05 PM	#103
Serpent720 Private 47 Rep 66 Posts Drives: F31 328i Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Hong Kong iTrader: (0)	Thank you very much Jimmy, and I am glad you like it. FYI... I am working another setting to provide a softer and warmer feel. WIll let you know once I finish. Cheers
	Appreciate 1 Quote

06-26-2015, 03:05 PM	#105
Serpent720 Private 47 Rep 66 Posts Drives: F31 328i Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Hong Kong iTrader: (0)	Just updated the setting file to v1.3 in my original post. I think this one is better than v1.2. Cheers Last edited by Serpent720; 06-28-2015 at 05:16 AM..
	Appreciate 1 Quote

06-29-2015, 10:52 AM	#106
strig1 Private 8 Rep 76 Posts Drives: 2014 328i Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Houston Tx iTrader: (0)	What kind of improvement would this yield from someone who has a JL XD600/6 and Bavsound speakers. You think worth selling the JL and buying this or just keep what i have?
	Appreciate 0 Quote