[blueislander]

Originally Posted by ZeroFx

Who said anything about self service? I'm talking about using a local BMW indi who has 15 years working for BMW.

I wouldn't consider one if it was about affordability. This M car would cost me less per month than the 320d I bought when I was 21 on HP.

Even so why would anyone want to hand a grand over to a dealership for 6 spark plugs and some filters?

What is putting me off is the ability to live with it. I'm more concerned that after the initial fun wears off it will just be a chore to live with. That DCT gear box and the ride quality will be the deal breaker not the running costs.

Originally Posted by ZeroFx

Who said anything about self service? I'm talking about using a local BMW indi who has 15 years working for BMW.

I wouldn't consider one if it was about affordability. This M car would cost me less per month than the 320d I bought when I was 21 on HP.

Even so why would anyone want to hand a grand over to a dealership for 6 spark plugs and some filters?

What is putting me off is the ability to live with it. I'm more concerned that after the initial fun wears off it will just be a chore to live with. That DCT gear box and the ride quality will be the deal breaker not the running costs.

Okay by self service I meant indi/non BMW dealer.

I don't want to give a grand to bmw for a few minimal bits and bobs but I accept its part of the package for ownership.

I found the DCT to be hard work. I went for a 440i with the ZF for that reason amongst others.

Whilst it's not close to the M4 on a track day, for the other 99.9% of the time it's a far better cruiser / GT car (for my needs) and is still more than enough power.

[Tengocity]

It is really important to choose what's right for you. No point in paying extra to run the M4 if you're not going to use its capabilities and indeed be frustrated by its compromises. Then the costs just seem like costs and money wasted.
For me, it's worth every penny, every mile.

[ZeroFx]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

It is really important to choose what's right for you. No point in paying extra to run the M4 if you're not going to use its capabilities and indeed be frustrated by its compromises. Then the costs just seem like costs and money wasted.
For me, it's worth every penny, every mile.

This is well put. Kind of how I'm feeling.

There are 6 months in the wet and snow and cold to pay for which I still need to use the car and for these months I'd rather just get through them without feeling like I could have gone on holiday instead of changing the oil.

Like anything sometimes its not what you can afford but more of a what I could have done with that money instead.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by ZeroFx

This is well put. Kind of how I'm feeling.

There are 6 months in the wet and snow and cold to pay for which I still need to use the car and for these months I'd rather just get through them without feeling like I could have gone on holiday instead of changing the oil.

Like anything sometimes its not what you can afford but more of a what I could have done with that money instead.

Sounds like a cheap holiday.

[ZeroFx]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Sounds like a cheap holiday.

or an expensive oil change.

My last service started out at £596 and ended up paying about £175 plus my own oil.

[dopper99]

Originally Posted by ZeroFx

Ive already had 2 people who got rid of theirs telling me to test drive one extended before I put money down.

Make that 3.

I had my M3 CP for about 16 months and was glad to sell it in the end. Wouldnt buy another. Bear in mind that mine was an early 16 plate model and they did improve them later on.

Main issues for me were:

Far too firm ride for everyday use IMO.
Horrendous road noise on those 20s.
Never liked the exhaust note. A 340i is far, far better sounding (the missus used to cringe every time I overtook anything).
Lack of traction for 6 months of the year (although improved with MP4S's).
DCT is not as good to live with as the ZF.
For it to be properly exciting you needed to cane it. And at those speeds its license losing and dangerous.
I actually expected it to be a little more nimble than was. It never felt a particularly light car and something like an M2 is probably more fun to drive, albeit slower.
Steering far too heavy.

Dont get me wrong, it's brilliant for what its built for and that is a track car built for the road, but its a little too raw for me for everyday use. Some would disagree and I get that. But like everything, it's all subjective.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Make that 3.

I had my M3 CP for about 16 months and was glad to sell it in the end. Wouldnt buy another. Bear in mind that mine was an early 16 plate model and they did improve them later on.

Main issues for me were:

Far too firm ride for everyday use IMO.
Horrendous road noise on those 20s.
Never liked the exhaust note. A 340i is far, far better sounding (the missus used to cringe every time I overtook anything).
Lack of traction for 6 months of the year (although improved with MP4S's).
DCT is not as good to live with as the ZF.
For it to be properly exciting you needed to cane it. And at those speeds its license losing and dangerous.
I actually expected it to be a little more nimble than was. It never felt a particularly light car and something like an M2 is probably more fun to drive, albeit slower.
Steering far too heavy.

Dont get me wrong, it's brilliant for what its built for and that is a track car built for the road, but its a little too raw for me for everyday use. Some would disagree and I get that. But like everything, it's all subjective.

Totally agree about the road noise, but for me all the other things are what makes the car what it is, and me love it!

Coilovers definitely helped though, as it rides better, and I don't have any traction issues, and didn't through winter either.

I drove MarkG_M3CP 's new M5 and was happy to get back in mine it feels that perfect for me.

[stefan4]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Totally agree about the road noise, but for me all the other things are what makes the car what it is, and me love it!

Coilovers definitely helped though, as it rides better, and I don't have any traction issues, and didn't through winter either.

I drove MarkG_M3CP 's new M5 and was happy to get back in mine it feels that perfect for me.

+1

I'm on the stock suspension and have no issues with the comfort tbh. I would agree that it's a car that loves to be driven hard and that can land you in trouble

overall though I love my m3 cp, but I must get it out onto a track! great fun on the back roads though!

[ZeroFx]

Here is hoping there is an M440i or even an M435i with a 2.0T 306hp

I think this might just be the right balance of performance and cost.

The issue is what do i do for another 2 years...

Oh now i remember why i was looking at M cars... dammit

[dopper99]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Totally agree about the road noise, but for me all the other things are what makes the car what it is, and me love it!

Coilovers definitely helped though, as it rides better, and I don't have any traction issues, and didn't through winter either.

I drove MarkG_M3CP 's new M5 and was happy to get back in mine it feels that perfect for me.

Glad your is more sorted than stock, sounds fab.

The M5 sounds epic and love the idea of 4WD in an M car. But they are a lot of cash at the moment and a little bit too big for most.

With my M3, there were days of course where it was brilliant to drive, its not all bad! When you want to go out for a drive and have some fun, there isn't a lot for the money that can beat it and its brilliant performance for the money.

But then there are days where you are going a ride out with the family somewhere and you feel conscious of the car jiggling everyone about as you are going over a pot holes and the obtrusive noises coming from the tyres and exhaust.

These days, I think my own tolerance level is no more than a M Sport guise type car.

This Golf R I've got is perfect for me. I've got the adaptive suspension (DCC) and its very good even on 19's and of course handles very well being a smaller/lighter, shorter wheelbase hatchback. Yes it could do with a bit more power when you're used to 450bhp or more, but I think its adequate at 300bhp TBH. It's a brilliant all-rounder with very little compromises - for me anyway.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Glad your is more sorted than stock, sounds fab.

The M5 sounds epic and love the idea of 4WD in an M car. But they are a lot of cash at the moment and a little bit too big for most.

With my M3, there were days of course where it was brilliant to drive, its not all bad! When you want to go out for a drive and have some fun, there isn't a lot for the money that can beat it and its brilliant performance for the money.

But then there are days where you are going a ride out with the family somewhere and you feel conscious of the car jiggling everyone about as you are going over a pot holes and the obtrusive noises coming from the tyres and exhaust.

These days, I think my own tolerance level is no more than a M Sport guise type car.

This Golf R I've got is perfect for me. I've got the adaptive suspension (DCC) and its very good even on 19's and of course handles very well being a smaller/lighter, shorter wheelbase hatchback. Yes it could do with a bit more power when you're used to 450bhp or more, but I think its adequate at 300bhp TBH. It's a brilliant all-rounder with very little compromises - for me anyway.

Golf R certainly sounds like a better proposition for your needs. It's just me and the wife, and mostly me driving it so I suppose my requirements are skewed.
I've had the PCW exhaust mod done and I'm still thinking I'll add the MPE at some point!

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by ZeroFx

Here is hoping there is an M440i or even an M435i with a 2.0T 306hp

I think this might just be the right balance of performance and cost.

The issue is what do i do for another 2 years...

Oh now i remember why i was looking at M cars... dammit

Have you gone off the TT then? You can get a decent spec TTS for less than £40k though Drive The Deal at the moment and, while it's no M-Car, it's probably as good to drive as one of the more mainstream 4-series. Ok, the engine's not as nice as the B58 six-pot but the interior is a very pleasant place to be and courtesy of much less weight I suspect it will feel rather more agile on the twisty bits than a standard 440i.

Had a drive in a 245bhp Quattro the other day and was quite impressed and a TTS should be even better.....

[Wills2]

Over 90,000 miles and just under 3 years my M3 cost 33p per mile fuel/tyres/insurance/service and upgrades plus then you have to pay for the dreaded D word which was 36p per mile.

Not a cheap exercise, the servicing is one of the least of the costs involved and not worth scrimping on.

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by ZeroFx

This is well put. Kind of how I'm feeling.

There are 6 months in the wet and snow and cold to pay for which I still need to use the car and for these months I'd rather just get through them without feeling like I could have gone on holiday instead of changing the oil.

Like anything sometimes its not what you can afford but more of a what I could have done with that money instead.

I didn't pop onto the thread adding my 2 cents because there seemed to be enough folk adding to the discussion... I have to say, however, that I think you have probably come to a fairly sensible decision in the end, given your stated concerns about running the M4 over a reasonable mileage and living with it day to day... (as I understand it you have gone away from the idea of the M Car...???)...

Thing is, these sorts of cars do cost more to run than the "ordinary" 3's and 4's, and you balance that against the few times that you can truly make use of their extra capability and you start to get to where you have got to... and then you start to add in things you see as compromises with the way it rides... (not saying all have the same opinion, but it is how your felt it when you drove it)

I appreciate your thinking on the costs of servicing, and, yes, there are many excellent independents out there who can do a really good job, but for the regular "stamps in the book" service history, you kind of do need to bite the bullet as use the BMW network as, whatever you save at service time, you might lose at sale time...

... and I know you (and others) think that's unfair etc, but it's kind of the way it is... The "value" in any car is the price somebody is prepared to bid/pay for it...

My M3 was many moons ago and a completely different kettle of fish to the current ones... I was, even in the early 90's, budgeting £1000/year for servicing...

I ran a GT3 for nearly 2 years... I have experience when it comes to these sorts of things... and I would never again have one as a primary road car... It was way to quick for the public highway... albeit every drive was an occasion... (I have not driven an M4, but from how it is described, the GT3 suspension was streets ahead in being sorted..)...

As a second car, yes, at the drop of a hat (if I had the ££ again) but it would be a track car that I could drive to/from the track in and have some fun on the track... I cannot think of a better car for me to have fun in, and I include the hyper cars etc...

It had its associated costs, though... A set of winter wheels and tyres for the centre lock hubs... £4,600....

[ZeroFx]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Have you gone off the TT then? You can get a decent spec TTS for less than £40k though Drive The Deal at the moment and, while it's no M-Car, it's probably as good to drive as one of the more mainstream 4-series. Ok, the engine's not as nice as the B58 six-pot but the interior is a very pleasant place to be and courtesy of much less weight I suspect it will feel rather more agile on the twisty bits than a standard 440i.

Had a drive in a 245bhp Quattro the other day and was quite impressed and a TTS should be even better.....

Not yet. There isn't much choice on the used market and the new car finance rates suck on the TTS at the moment.

My specced up TTS black ed was 41k after discount. That buys a lot of car on the nearly new market. Such as a M4... this is how we got here...

[blueislander]

Originally Posted by ZeroFx

Not yet. There isn't much choice on the used market and the new car finance rates suck on the TTS at the moment.

My specced up TTS black ed was 41k after discount. That buys a lot of car on the nearly new market. Such as a M4... this is how we got here...

Originally Posted by ZeroFx

Not yet. There isn't much choice on the used market and the new car finance rates suck on the TTS at the moment.

My specced up TTS black ed was 41k after discount. That buys a lot of car on the nearly new market. Such as a M4... this is how we got here...

Mustang? Just a thought.

[ZeroFx]

M340i has 375PS, X Drive and a LSD. The coupe/cab variants should be ideal when they launch as a true M lite car.

Until then its either keep mine or get a stop gap.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by ZeroFx

M340i has 375PS, X Drive and a LSD. The coupe/cab variants should be ideal when they launch as a true M lite car.

Until then its either keep mine or get a stop gap.

Not quite so simple just yet...although I did agree it sounds like the car you'd enjoy most. M440i very would be the one for you I suspect. However it's years off yet and also you then need to wait some time maybe another 2-3 quarters would you think before the real 3/4 series discounts can be applied?

Worth holding out for though as no point rushing into the went option.

When is the G22/23 even out. Only recently seen very camouflaged spy pics here.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Not quite so simple just yet...although I did agree it sounds like the car you'd enjoy most. M440i very would be the one for you I suspect. However it's years off yet and also you then need to wait some time maybe another 2-3 quarters would you think before the real 3/4 series discounts can be applied?

Worth holding out for though as no point rushing into the went option.

When is the G22/23 even out. Only recently seen very camouflaged spy pics here.

July 2021 was end of production for the F36 last time I checked (admittedly a long time ago). Iirc the F32 was a few months prior.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

July 2021 was end of production for the F36 last time I checked (admittedly a long time ago). Iirc the F32 was a few months prior.

Thank you and sorry a. It lazy there of me

That sounds a long long way away!

Next M2 would be getting revealed about 6 months after that.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Thank you and sorry a. It lazy there of me

That sounds a long long way away!

Next M2 would be getting revealed about 6 months after that.

Not at all, Chris, I just happened to have an eye on EOL for the F36 as an owner. I always struggle to find the relevant thread on the app - but it's a very useful one.

[ZeroFx]

G22 is slated for production mid 2020

GC and Cab follow normally about 6-9 months after that usually.

So 24 months is about right id expect. Should be plenty of demo fleet stock out by then id imagine.