[jeffc83]

Originally Posted by classyfast

What do you guys think about no more manuals? I will absolutely be locating another e36 or e46m car as a weekend toy in the next couple years. For sure.

That'll be a blast provided you know what to look out for! (especially an E46) Although I'm not pleased to see what's happening to the manual transmissions, the fun factor will always be there for the majority of us when pulling through the gears so it should always be an option. Having said that, my teen does not want a stick and thinks they're pathetic. (still have a few years to teach him right lol) Anyway, here's a decent summary of popular myths from edmunds:

Myth:
The coolest sports cars only come with manual transmissions.
This depends on your definition of "cool sports car." The seventh-generation 2014 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray and many flavors of the 2014 Porsche 911 offer a choice of transmission types. But if your choice is the 2014 Porsche 911 GT3, which Edmunds editors call "the baddest Porsche on the block," you can only get it with Porsche's dual-clutch automatic transmission. The same goes for the 2014 Jaguar F-Type the 2013 Maserati GranTurismo,the 2013 Lamborghini Aventador and the 2013 Ferrari F12 Berlinetta. All come with automatic transmissions. No manual gear-shifting ballet for you.

It's no loss, says Ken Hill, a professional racer, driving educator and vice president of operations for Automotive Adventures in Bellevue, Washington. "Some people are stuck on the mindset that a driver is faster with a manual box," Hill says. But there's a reason why some major performance-car manufacturers, including Ferrari and Jaguar, no longer offer traditional manual transmissions, he says. "They just aren't as good."

(https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy...ck-shifts.html)

Oh and the above is an OLD article which tells us all something

[chiefneil]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

$50k for a 4 cylinder. what a world we live in.

Depends what your priorities are. IIRC my 2014 335i was around 54k MSRP when new. I think I paid around 51k or so.

It’s only “moderately” equipped - no Tech or Nav, but skipping those saved 3-4k. M-sport + I6 were the core things I wanted.

Anyway the 3-series has gotten too big for me; 3 is the new 5. Sadly BMW’s next-gen 1 and 2-series cars are going to the FWD Mini platform with no I6 offered so BMW appears to be giving up on the true compact RWD sport sedan segment. Hopefully MB/Audi/Lexus/Alfa/etc will step up their game in that segment with something compelling.

[chiefneil]

Originally Posted by jeffc83

Myth:
The coolest sports cars only come with manual transmissions.

I was thinking about this the other day when I pondering what I would buy if I won the lottery. I’d want a play sports car with a stick. So I was thinking “Ferrari hell yeah, but damn no stick.” So “Mclaren hell yeah, but damn no stick”. Ok “Lamborghini, but damn no stick”. Pretty much Porsche seems like the last man standing to offer a stick in the sports car segment (among major manufacturers).

[evdok]

Ive had this for 2 days going back tomorrow, must say suspension is smoother than mine & seems to pick up better

[vgore]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

Make that $70K+ for a fully loaded G30 530i with the 4 pot...

The 4 Pot has even made its ways into 7 series now in the 740e iperformance form LOL.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by vgore

The 4 Pot has even made its ways into 7 series now in the 740e iperformance form LOL.

Yeah amazing. In Europe and other markets they have the 730i gasoline.

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by vgore

The 4 Pot has even made its ways into 7 series now in the 740e iperformance form LOL.

3 cylinder - $163,XXX

Comparing cars prices to the amount of cylinders they have is pretty pointless. All of these prices represent the value of the vehicle until someone signs a deal, the values tumble just the same after.

With the age of the platform this forum is built around used prices should be the main discussion point now, and if not now, in two months. Save for some special circumstance or desire to lease, there is no reason anyone should be buying a brand new F30 now.

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by vooonoo

Least it has LED head lights and fogs standard, oh and a back up camera... took you long enough to include that BMW.... come on man that thing isn't bone stock, it has heated seats, a heated steering wheel, blind spot detection and comfort access! /s

You would think all that would be standard when you're spending 50k for a car

Really though that's insane, that's why people wait for them to be returned leases and buy them for 16k

Also post a pic let's see how ugly that bumper really is

Rear cameras are mandated now...it's a requirement. Don't think BMW is being 'nice' to give it to you for 'free' lol

[goj]

Originally Posted by metallicpea

#5 is a keen observation, but unfortunately signs point to BMW not really going this route with the G20. Only time will tell. Maybe I just don't have that faith in BMW / BMW NA anymore.

What signs?

Every new car review post G30 seems to be very favorable in terms of dynamics

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by goj

What signs?

Every new car review post G30 seems to be very favorable in terms of dynamics

As a G30 I can attest to this...

[bimmer456]

Buy 3 refurbished cars for the price of one new one with money left over.

[jeffc83]

Originally Posted by chiefneil

I was thinking about this the other day when I pondering what I would buy if I won the lottery. I’d want a play sports car with a stick. So I was thinking “Ferrari hell yeah, but damn no stick.” So “Mclaren hell yeah, but damn no stick”. Ok “Lamborghini, but damn no stick”. Pretty much Porsche seems like the last man standing to offer a stick in the sports car segment (among major manufacturers).

Times really have changed! If I ended up hitting the lotto, I would most likely shoot for a 2018 Porsche 718 Boxster along with an ATS-V, BMW M2 and maybe just maybe a GTI for kicks lol. Okay. with a lotto win, I'd buy every manual out there and choose each and every time I needed to go somewhere with a HUGE GRIN

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by jeffc83

Many great points here and thanks for starting this OP

After owning this car for almost 2 years now and reading that sticker this morning with a "fresh mind" if you will, I'm truly wondering what justifies it at this point. 42 grand (base) and has no XM, no comfort entry or hell, not even lumbar support! And it has SensaTEC too at 47 grand?! Incentives or not, there are better options out there even at the 35-40k price point. Okay, I know we all mention the lack of features but then we can start talking about "overall satisfaction and FUN factor" which just aren't there at that price. Although I love my Bimmer a lot and plan on keeping it around for quite awhile, it might also be the last as the latest "sneak peek" I've seen on the G20 just isn't doing it for me at all nor is the 5er anymore, especially after driving one. (although the interior was nice on the G30, it completely lacked the fun factor)

Biggest issue? BMW is rear wheel drive first and AWD second. Almost every other car out there in the luxury car segment is going to be either FWD or AWD and THAT is where BMW will win the war. Audi's are pretty cars..but they don't offer a RWD only car..its quattro or FWD. No Japanese import competes currently...(The new Supra might be a RWD but only thanks to BMW. The Lexus IS series..'eh'. Top line models (350 F-sport,etc) are about as close as they can but not close enough to being a performance sedan.) GM's offerings are minimal. The ATS-V series is on death's door and no one will want one given they'll only be around maybe another year (and I love the looks and specs of that car.) Based on this ^, BMW probably feels they have their market niche and charges accordingly...even for the base models....

[jeffc83]

Originally Posted by CalCarNut

Biggest issue? BMW is rear wheel drive first and AWD second. Almost every other car out there in the luxury car segment is going to be either FWD or AWD and THAT is where BMW will win the war. Audi's are pretty cars..but they don't offer a RWD only car..its quattro or FWD. No Japanese import competes currently...(The new Supra might be a RWD but only thanks to BMW. The Lexus IS series..'eh'. Top line models (350 F-sport,etc) are about as close as they can but not close enough to being a performance sedan.) GM's offerings are minimal. The ATS-V series is on death's door and no one will want one given they'll only be around maybe another year (and I love the looks and specs of that car.) Based on this ^, BMW probably feels they have their market niche and charges accordingly...even for the base models....

Let's hope it remains that way with BMW: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/s...ls-124413.html

https://carbuzz.com/news/2019-bmw-3-...-camry-fighter

The last one was just for laughs gents

For the record, I just like driving manual transmission cars for fun and not to commute in daily traffic. Winning the lottery? Hell yeah I'd buy them ALL regardless of how each one ranks in the competition

[classyfast]

Originally Posted by CalCarNut

Biggest issue? BMW is rear wheel drive first and AWD second. Almost every other car out there in the luxury car segment is going to be either FWD or AWD and THAT is where BMW will win the war. Audi's are pretty cars..but they don't offer a RWD only car..its quattro or FWD. No Japanese import competes currently...(The new Supra might be a RWD but only thanks to BMW. The Lexus IS series..'eh'. Top line models (350 F-sport,etc) are about as close as they can but not close enough to being a performance sedan.) GM's offerings are minimal. The ATS-V series is on death's door and no one will want one given they'll only be around maybe another year (and I love the looks and specs of that car.) Based on this ^, BMW probably feels they have their market niche and charges accordingly...even for the base models....

It's a shame.....I had a manual 11 CTSV coupe and loved it, the ATSV is amazing too, test drove sedan and coupe....if the pricing was better they would be gold! You can't come out swinging with M3/4 pricing on an unproven platform with a dated interior

[classyfast]

Originally Posted by evdok

Ive had this for 2 days going back tomorrow, must say suspension is smoother than mine & seems to pick up better

It's all about the D!!!

[classyfast]

Originally Posted by jeffc83

That'll be a blast provided you know what to look out for! (especially an E46) Although I'm not pleased to see what's happening to the manual transmissions, the fun factor will always be there for the majority of us when pulling through the gears so it should always be an option. Having said that, my teen does not want a stick and thinks they're pathetic. (still have a few years to teach him right lol) Anyway, here's a decent summary of popular myths from edmunds:

Myth:
The coolest sports cars only come with manual transmissions.
This depends on your definition of "cool sports car." The seventh-generation 2014 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray and many flavors of the 2014 Porsche 911 offer a choice of transmission types. But if your choice is the 2014 Porsche 911 GT3, which Edmunds editors call "the baddest Porsche on the block," you can only get it with Porsche's dual-clutch automatic transmission. The same goes for the 2014 Jaguar F-Type the 2013 Maserati GranTurismo,the 2013 Lamborghini Aventador and the 2013 Ferrari F12 Berlinetta. All come with automatic transmissions. No manual gear-shifting ballet for you.

It's no loss, says Ken Hill, a professional racer, driving educator and vice president of operations for Automotive Adventures in Bellevue, Washington. "Some people are stuck on the mindset that a driver is faster with a manual box," Hill says. But there's a reason why some major performance-car manufacturers, including Ferrari and Jaguar, no longer offer traditional manual transmissions, he says. "They just aren't as good."

(https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy...ck-shifts.html)

Oh and the above is an OLD article which tells us all something

Lol tell me about it! Had an 04 e46m!!!

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by classyfast

Just a few thoughts on a loaner I have today and most likely tomorrow. FYI: this is not a critique in my dealership or anything like that just a reflective look at the insane and absurd pricing bmw has on a basic ass 3 series that lacks everything I've learned to love about bimmers over my 17 combined years of ownership.

Some of my past cars: e36m, e46m, e92 pre-lci 335, e90 lci 335, f25 x3, e92 LCi msport 335, e92 M3, current f48 X1 and f30 335 msport. Decent history with bmw, a few Infiniti's and and an Audi S4 sprinkled in there too!

Loaner car is a 2018 330xdrive non m-sport (which looks terrible) plus the shitty NAV! I was utterly shocked to shit when I saw the sticker in the trunk! Lol how the hell is this car $47,695? I can't understand how somebody would actually shell that out when there are literally tons of "better" cars that can be had in that price range for far less. Everything in the car screams cheap and mundane. It's crazy.

It is worth mentioning my f30 is an msport with EDC, MPPK, MPE, brembos and a bunch of mperf parts so I am spoiled and lucky to have my car spec'd out as it is, but holy shit 50k for this basic ass 330 with very few options is completely insane. The loaner feels like a Toyota Corolla, hell the new Camry is spec'd better and is more comfortable than this car! Steering, road feel, fun to drive? Lol. Hell no. That is long gone for BMW, this is truly a sad day for me!

Then to top it all off my Sales guy and SA we're talking about how bmw will eliminate all manual trannny productions within 3 years! Lol. Damn it actually does get worse.

That is all

Is your issue

1) Only basic equipment in loaner vehicle (which I understand from a Dealers Standpoint)

Or

2) The price for a basic BMW which has endless threads and has nothing to do with a loaner car (or, see #1, maybe it does, lol)

[jeffc83]

Originally Posted by classyfast

It's a shame.....I had a manual 11 CTSV coupe and loved it, the ATSV is amazing too, test drove sedan and coupe....if the pricing was better they would be gold! You can't come out swinging with M3/4 pricing on an unproven platform with a dated interior

Between the M and the V, I absolutely positively hate you right now Had a 2010 CTS4 3.6DI Premium and still regret selling it, down to this very day and that wasn't even a V man! At the time, I just wanted something different and what a horrible mistake that was to what I thought was trading up for a newer Caddy (also bigger and slower) that ran the first gen CUE system. That system LITERALLY made me go insane...

[classyfast]

Originally Posted by IK6SPEED

Is your issue

1) Only basic equipment in loaner vehicle (which I understand from a Dealers Standpoint)

Or

2) The price for a basic BMW which has endless threads and has nothing to do with a loaner car (or, see #1, maybe it does, lol)

Lol probably 2

[classyfast]

Originally Posted by IK6SPEED

Is your issue

1) Only basic equipment in loaner vehicle (which I understand from a Dealers Standpoint)

Or

2) The price for a basic BMW which has endless threads and has nothing to do with a loaner car (or, see #1, maybe it does, lol)

I understand too the concept of basic equipment for loaners, I do. But even the damn seatbelts feel cheap! This is a damn bmw!! Make me feel good before you bend me over!!

[LMK5]

To me it's all about the steering and suspension. They must make vast improvements in these areas for these cars to feel special. Ending the troubled marriage with RFTs wouldn't hurt either. Otherwise, these cars feel just a little too ordinary to warrant the steep premium.