[Watsey]

I know that several folks are interested in Ohlins R&T on my car, hence this initial update.

The full report will take me a while to write, so here's a summary version in the meantime. I'll keep it as brief as possible, but provide some explanation where it's appropriate.

As with all these things, these are my experiences and personal recommendations, fore or against. If they help, great. Alternately, ignore at will. YMMV, as the saying goes.

Brief background = Ohlins R&T were noisy on my car pretty much from the day they were first installed. It started as a subtle knocking noise and progressively worsened.

The noise became so intrusive, and constant, that after around a year the dampers were removed, driven to BG Motorsport at Silverstone (Ohlins' UK agent), stripped, inspected, and rebuilt with new DU bushes even though apparently mine weren't worn.

The noise persisted. Every mile, of every journey. It was like Japanese water torture.

The following components were subsequently replaced as a seemingly never-ending process of elimination to solve the noise problem : drop links (3 sets), front wheel bearings, wishbones (now Millway units with sealed spherical bearings), Millway Race/Track camber plates were converted to Street spec (they didn't isolate the noise, but that proved NOT to be a problem with Millway's design - it's a story for a later date).

The workshop charges ran into the £thousands, and the suspension problem became a money pit.

Eventually, and only after a LOT of vocal complaints from me (along with audio and video recordings as evidence), Ohlins capitulated and set a full set (front & rear) of its latest R&T => MU00. Apparently the front dampers have been redesigned, which is clear when they are side by side with the previous generation units, but it wouldn't divulge what internal changes had been made.

So, last week the previous generation R&T kit was removed and a brand new set of MU00 R&T was installed. I also reverted to Millway Race/Street camber plates (with replacement bearings of my choice, as before), and Millway solid (spherical bearings) rear top mounts.

There are some interesting changes :
- The front spring rates in the previous generation R&T were 60N/mm. This was too soft for the 30d and I'd already had them changed (more workshop charges) for Ohlins custom-order 80N/mm springs.
- The front spring rate in the MU00 is 80N/mm. Form your own conclusions.
- The rear spring rate remains the same in both generations => 160N/mm but bear in mind that the rear springs are inboard of the dampers, around half way between the wheel hub carriers and the chassis. The car is effectively running 80N springs all round.
- The MU00 front dampers seem to have a significantly longer DU bush - this is the component that helps to hold the inverted monotube in alignment with the damper body, reduces metal-metal contact and wear, and also reduces lateral movement of the inverted monotube. My guess is that the previous DU bush was found to be under-sized.
- The MU00 front dampers have a noticeably shorter damper body, by around 70mm, but there was still sufficient range of in the ride height adjustment to achieve the same stance that I like (602mm from the bottom of each rim to the underside of each wheel arch, measured through the centre of the wheel cap). However, the shorter damper body means that it has to be set at a higher point in the range of ride height adjustment (the lower threaded portion) and this means that the mounting points for the drop links is at a higher level relative to the ends of the front anti-roll bar. I now need to order longer drop links which equates to yet more cost.

The removal/install was done at a different workshop than I've been to previously, Swift Performance near Stoke Mandeville in the UK. They did a great job - listened and really understood the back-story, were accommodating of my attention to detail, and suggested some new geo settings to help with turn-in and cornering ability (effective but also significantly changes the handling - I need more time behind the wheel to see whether like the new geo enough to keep it).

The upshot is that, after literally YEARS of living with noisy suspension, my car is now blissfully quiet. All rattling has been eliminated (apart from a very minor sound coming from a worn drop link), and I am now 100% certain that the specific knocking/rattling which was caused by high frequency and low amplitude undulations, i.e. secondary ride, was due to a fault or 'characteristic' inside the previous gen Ohlins R&T front dampers.

I have no idea how long the MU00 front dampers will last. Ohlins informed me, via BG Motorsport, that the previous gen units were end of life by 30K miles (!!!!!) - you can inform your own conclusions whether that corresponds to a premium set of suspension in that price range.

Given my experience I would almost certainly not have opted for Ohlins again if I was buying them. Bilstein Clubsport would have probably been my #1 choice. The hassle has massively outweighed the ride / performance / cost (around £3K in the UK). BUT, Ohlins supplied the MU00 free of charge and it was illogical to buy Bilstein or another brand which would have cost money.

If you asked me for a yes/no recommendation regarding Ohlins R&T I'd struggle, today, to say yes. The new gen units may have solved the problems of noise and short lifespan, but these problems should never have existed in the first place from a company with a reputation such as Ohlins. Only time will tell whether the MU00 is a quiet and robust product.

Would I recommend Millway ? Absolutely yes. I really like their products. Well designed; well engineered; quality manufacture. The rear solid top mounts have noticeably improved rear damper response, with corresponding improved chassis control. Millway seems to be completely overloaded with orders and is simply not able to satisfy the demand. It took a very long time to get all the relevant info regarding the rear top mounts (they are a very recent new product for the F3X chassis) and for them to be manufactured/delivered, but it was worth the wait.

That's all I have time for today. I just hope that these R&T dampers are the solution and not Problem V2.0.

[moppity]

Fantastic and honest write up Watsey, thank you so much for taking the time.

What a ‘mare you’ve had though 😬

[Watsey]

A couple more comments, if that helps those considering R&T.

Once I'd had the front springs upgraded to 80N units I've always really liked the way they car rides on R&T. The Dual Flow Valves definitely work, giving a softer damper response for secondary ride and firming-up for primary ride undulations i.e. when the suspension inputs increase (amplitude). Some people might not notice, but it's there.

Some manufacturers opt for progressive spring rates, some opt for dual springs (i.e. helper + main). Ohlins uses linear spring rates and DFV. I can't comment on which strategy is 'best'.

If my first experience of R&T was the Gen.2 now fitted to my car I'd have no hesitation in recommending them, albeit they've only been on the car for a few days. I don't know how long they will last, but even if they only last another 30K miles it will take me 6 years to cover that distance at my current annual mileage. If I'd only experienced Gen.1 I'd tell you to avoid them like the plague. You will appreciate the moral dilemma !

[moppity]

I meant to ask Watsey, is your car a Touring or saloon?

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by Watsey

A couple more comments, if that helps those considering R&T.

Once I'd had the front springs upgraded to 80N units I've always really liked the way they car rides on R&T. The Dual Flow Valves definitely work, giving a softer damper response for secondary ride and firming-up for primary ride undulations i.e. when the suspension inputs increase (amplitude). Some people might not notice, but it's there.

Some manufacturers opt for progressive spring rates, some opt for dual springs (i.e. helper + main). Ohlins uses linear spring rates and DFV. I can't comment on which strategy is 'best'.

If my first experience of R&T was the Gen.2 now fitted to my car I'd have no hesitation in recommending them, albeit they've only been on the car for a few days. I don't know how long they will last, but even if they only last another 30K miles it will take me 6 years to cover that distance at my current annual mileage. If I'd only experienced Gen.1 I'd tell you to avoid them like the plague. You will appreciate the moral dilemma !

I was curious about your review since I also have the Ohlins, but I ended up getting the MU00 - I was a late adopter.

It is still somewhat of a harsh ride on regular roads even with 18" wheels and PS4S tires.

If someone's not tracking the car, I'd say just get the M Performance Suspension kit and perhaps aftermarket sway bars and call it a day.

I currently re-installed the M Performance Suspension kit because it didn't make sense to drive on the Ohlins R&T for the winter/non track seasons.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by moppity

I meant to ask Watsey, is your car a Touring or saloon?

Touring, 2012 pre-LCI.

[B50AteYourRide]

Thanks for sharing your experiences Watsey.

Sounds like I may have dodged a bullet in having to wait for the newer version that works with X Drive.

Luckily, I haven't had any of these issues and so far, so good. This is also a second car for me and it does get babied a whole lot more than the truck.

While these are expensive, I didn't really see them as that much more in the grand scheme of things. Some pricing from ECS just to put things in context:
KW V2 are about $2,300 - $2,564
KW V3 are $2,934
Bilstein B16 PSS10 - $2,400
Ohlins are $2,890

Throw in the install kit, bushings and labor and the difference in all in cost, to me, wasn't that much different.

They are definitely not $1,000 coilovers, but that is a whole other market.

[casualDIYer]

Thanks for sharing Watsey. I'm not sure I would have said "Ohlins supplied the MU00 free of charge" since you paid for a product assumed to work no worse than any other competitor (including BMW's own parts), had multiple parts swapped out multiple times (each time incurring a workshop fee), then Ohlins finally decided they would replace the defective product with a product that actually worked. I would say you were finally provided with the product you originally paid for. The shock of the story to me was the multiple replacements of the same part that resulted in the same result.

It is interesting this experience for Ohlin's F-chassis BMW suspensions, as far as I can tell, is not universal but it may go to show that while parts may fit a particular chassis, due to the myriad of options that can be attached to that chassis, the dynamics, particularly with regards to suspension, can change subtly to the point where a product that works fine on one configuration isn't ideal on another. But differences, like the car's weight, and distribution of it, do change. While I have no clue how Ohlins will test it's products, I could see them getting a set of OE parts, sizing all dimensions for their product to be the same, test one car, then sell to the market of all cars that part fits on. That probably works in a lot of case, but clearly not here.

Ohlins did the right thing supplying the correct product but it took quite some time.

Anyway, sounds like the case is finally over. Enjoy your new suspension.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by casualDIYer

Thanks for sharing Watsey. I'm not sure I would have said "Ohlins supplied the MU00 free of charge" since you paid for a product assumed to work no worse than any other competitor (including BMW's own parts), had multiple parts swapped out multiple times (each time incurring a workshop fee), then Ohlins finally decided they would replace the defective product with a product that actually worked. I would say you were finally provided with the product you originally paid for. The shock of the story to me was the multiple replacements of the same part that resulted in the same result.

It is interesting this experience for Ohlin's F-chassis BMW suspensions, as far as I can tell, is not universal but it may go to show that while parts may fit a particular chassis, due to the myriad of options that can be attached to that chassis, the dynamics, particularly with regards to suspension, can change subtly to the point where a product that works fine on one configuration isn't ideal on another. But differences, like the car's weight, and distribution of it, do change. While I have no clue how Ohlins will test it's products, I could see them getting a set of OE parts, sizing all dimensions for their product to be the same, test one car, then sell to the market of all cars that part fits on. That probably works in a lot of case, but clearly not here.

Ohlins did the right thing supplying the correct product but it took quite some time.

Anyway, sounds like the case is finally over. Enjoy your new suspension.

Paragraph 1 - fair point, I was being generous

I could have, justifiably, posted a far more critical review - it’s already in draft, along with the financial impact, which I’ll likely post in the coming weeks. The true cost and disruption may shock a lot of people.

I understand that R&T for the F3X was developed using a 320d - that would explain the front spring rates being too low for the 30d. I also suspect that the overall R&T product line was under-developed.

A workshop that did a lot of work on my car, which has an extensive experience with Porches, told me that they were instructed to contact all owners of 996 and 997 models which they’d fitted R&T to, and to instruct them to stop driving them. Allegedly (important that I get that word in to this Post) Ohlins had discovered/accepted that the front coilovers could collapse, creating a very significant safety risk.

If that anecdotal information is factually accurate, how does such a product get released for sale ? (rhetorical question).

EDIT => In case it wasn't clear, the alleged risk of collapse of R&T coilovers related to the 'Gen.1' range i.e. MP00. not the updated 'Gen.2' range MU00.

[E90lova]

Man guess you guys should get FlatoutRacing coilovers and add 400, 425 or 450 lbs front and 900lb rear springs. I did this on my car with a used set I bought from a member on here and they make no noise and are comfortable and still handle well even with stock swaybars and Whiteline endlinks.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by E90lova

Man guess you guys should get FlatoutRacing coilovers and add 400, 425 or 450 lbs front and 900lb rear springs. I did this on my car with a used set I bought from a member on here and they make no noise and are comfortable and still handle well even with stock swaybars and Whiteline endlinks.

Pricing looks quite competitive for a coilover, just over BC but under KW's starting Street Comfort.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by Watsey

A workshop that did a lot of work on my car, which has an extensive experience with Porches, told me that they were instructed to contact all owners of 996 and 997 models which they’d pitted R&T to, and to instruct them to stop driving them. Allegedly (important that I get that word in to this Post) Ohlins had discovered/accepted that the front coilovers could collapse, creating a very significant safety risk.

That sounds insane. For the strut to collapse the spring perch holding the bottom of the spring would have to shear off. No matter how basic a damper, you'd think that preventing the lower perch from cracking or shearing in any way would be a major priority. Depending on how far the damping rod depresses, one corner of the car would likely end up now perched on the tire, which would then have the living sh*t shredded out of it as the top of fender (and any screws or bolts affixed to it) pushes into it, first ripping the liner to shreds then having accessory fender bolts/screws carve a new set of treads into the tire. This accident isn't going to unfold over minutes. It's going to be CRACK-SHRED-BOOM as the tire disintegrates. If lucky, this happens on an empty road as you go over a bump in a straight line. Bad luck if the side that fails is the side closest to oncoming traffic and utterly sh*t luck if you are in a turn and the car's weight is leaning on the failed strut.

If on an M3/M4/M5 the fender is made of some sort of poly-carbonate material so it might just snap leaving the tire intact. Don't know a lot about Porsche to say whether they use sheet metal for the fender or not but, given the urgency, perhaps it is. The steel fender will mightily hold on to any bolt or screws as part of the liner assembly, allowing them to cut the tire to ribbons. Mercilessly.

Lovely~

Ohlins better be looking for a new quality control manager if this story is true.

[TurboWeasel]

You faired a lot better than me if Ohlins sent you another set, in spite of the faff.

I hope the piston rods don't look like mine (page 1) after 30K miles with the improved version. There is a Savage Geese video where they visited Ohlins USA. The sales rep stated they went for performance over lifespan and were unapologetic about it. It is what it is if you chose that brand.

Kudos to you for sticking with it.

Somewhat of a surprise to me when I bought mine was they were made in Japan rather than Sweden, by a subsidiary of Yamaha, so the quality issues are surprising given Japan isn't known for producing shoddy goods. Must be down to a short fall in material quality.

I'll be interested in your long term review of the revised set as I absolutely loved how mine performed. Just not sure I can stomach 30K rebuilds every 18 months if that is the expected lifespan of even the improved ones.....or is it 30K KMs? European products don't usually quote in miles.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by TurboWeasel

You faired a lot better than me if Ohlins sent you another set, in spite of the faff.

I hope the piston rods don't look like mine (page 1) after 30K miles with the improved version. There is a Savage Geese video where they visited Ohlins USA. The sales rep stated they went for performance over lifespan and were unapologetic about it. It is what it is if you chose that brand.

Kudos to you for sticking with it.

Somewhat of a surprise to me when I bought mine was they were made in Japan rather than Sweden, by a subsidiary of Yamaha, so the quality issues are surprising given Japan isn't known for producing shoddy goods. Must be down to a short fall in material quality.

I'll be interested in your long term review of the revised set as I absolutely loved how mine performed. Just not sure I can stomach 30K rebuilds every 18 months if that is the expected lifespan of even the improved ones.....or is it 30K KMs? European products don't usually quote in miles.

I won't post photos of the Gen/1 dampers at this stage. Your eyes would bulge out of your head, but the damage is because of a different problem that was found (something else entirely to the noise being created inside the damper bodies).

I'm waiting to hear whether it will be resolved amicably, and then I may be able to post some of the details. It's yet another layer on top of the catalogue of shit that has plagued the experience of installing aftermarket suspension on my car.

In terms of the Gen.1 (MP00) lifespan, my dampers happened to have done around 30K miles when Ohlins' UK agent informed me that Ohlins had stated that they were end of life. This seems to be largely based on the agent's experience (and other suspension specialists that I spoke with) that the cost of Ohlins spares is so high that a full rebuild isn't economically viable.

That's different, of course, to Ohlins stating that 30K miles is an official 'end of life' mileage.

That's got to be a commercial strategy designed to milk the customer for more money.

I can only assume that the same (prohibitive cost of spares) applies to the Gen.2 product (MU00).

[TurboWeasel]

Originally Posted by Watsey

I won't post photos of the Gen/1 dampers at this stage. Your eyes would bulge out of your head, but the damage is because of a different problem that was found (something else entirely to the noise being created inside the damper bodies).

I'm waiting to hear whether it will be resolved amicably, and then I may be able to post some of the details. It's yet another layer on top of the catalogue of shit that has plagued the experience of installing aftermarket suspension on my car.

In terms of the Gen.1 (MP00) lifespan, my dampers happened to have done around 30K miles when Ohlins' UK agent informed me that Ohlins had stated that they were end of life. This seems to be largely based on the agent's experience (and other suspension specialists that I spoke with) that the cost of Ohlins spares is so high that a full rebuild isn't economically viable.

That's different, of course, to Ohlins stating that 30K miles is an official 'end of life' mileage.

That's got to be a commercial strategy designed to milk the customer for more money.

I can only assume that the same (prohibitive cost of spares) applies to the Gen.2 product (MU00).

Sorry to hear you've had such a bad experience. Not what you expect from a premium brand. Your perseverance is admirable though and hopefully it will come to a decent conclusion, finally!

Mine were noisy from the get go and Ohlins were extremely apathetic about it. "That's just how they are sir". Clonking from the rear struts over every single minor road imperfection and knocking/clicking from the fronts on full lock.

If it wasn't for the fact they drove so well, they would have been removed and sent back immediately. As car enthusiasts we have to expect and live with compromises when modifying, but there are limits as to what is and isn't acceptable.

Roughly 4 years ago, BG Developments wanted £250+VAT per corner to rebuild mine, well, the rod with the chipped off chrome plate was a write off, so would need an entire new unit. So I shoved em' on ebay for 300 quid. I wasn't going to spend that sort of cash only for the same thing to happen again.

I can't believe a few shim packs, seals, oil and a re-gas can cost that much. I think it's deliberate as you say.

A bitter sweet experience, but not as bad as yours by the sound of it!

I'm not sure what else is out there that is comparable in driving performance, but lasts longer. Nitron? AST? They're another pricing tier up though.

Anyway, good luck with it

[weehe126]

I'm looking at getting the Ohlins, but just want to confirm the correct part number for the updated version that doesn't clank. I see it listed as MU00 in this thread. I can find that BMS MU00 on the Ohlins site. Is this the same as BMS MU00S1? Or is the S1 the old style.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by weehe126

I'm looking at getting the Ohlins, but just want to confirm the correct part number for the updated version that doesn't clank. I see it listed as MU00 in this thread. I can find that BMS MU00 on the Ohlins site. Is this the same as BMS MU00S1? Or is the S1 the old style.

MU00 is the updated product. Obviously you’d need to get the precise Part Number for your car, as it may not be the same as the P/N shown on the label in the photo attached to my update Post.

MP00 was the previous generation.

[Watsey]

The saga has come to an end, for me at least.

The new R&T kit is working well, and silent (for now), so I can finally (after 6 years) enjoy a quiet car.

Here’s some pictures of the condition of the dampers which were replaced.

[TurboWeasel]

Hmmmm, they went the same way mine did but yours are far worse.

Glad the new ones are working out