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      06-09-2019, 07:06 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maestrogustav View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyEvo8u View Post
Oh man I know, biggest regret is, I wish i just paid in advance to have the timing chain replaced since it is a known issue. My other issue is that I wonder if my timing chain took longer to go then normal because I babied the car and didn't over stress it.

I am just completely lost for words. Good luck with yours man! I always lived by that saying maintenance & not beating on your car all the time is key for a long living motor hahaha.
What is the cost of having it replaced under the warranty?
Zero dollars.
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      06-09-2019, 08:15 AM   #90
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Well, I stumbled in here to this forum and this thread, about 14 hours after putting a $500 deposit on a 2013 328i with 73k miles on it; purchase price is $13k from a BMW dealer. Not sure if my guy is there on Sundays; I'm supposed to pick the car up Monday evening after detailing.

I will ask about the timing chain issue. My guy is straightforward, but he certainly didn't mention that I am conveniently 3k miles outside the warranty zone.

Can it be demanded to be changed preventatively, or must there be some "evidence" of a problem before they do it?

There were literally two customers lined up after me on Saturday afternoon to buy the car; I imagine they'll let me off the hook, or I could transfer the deposit to another vehicle. Advice anyone? I think this is my second or third post, and this would be my first BMW in the states since moving from Germany 10 years ago.

The car that brought me into the dealership was a 2015 335i with 44k miles, but it's 11 grand more. Ironically, my research on that vehicle concluded that the inline 6 had reliability issues. . .
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      06-09-2019, 08:49 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maestrogustav View Post
Can it be demanded to be changed preventatively, or must there be some "evidence" of a problem before they do it?
Bingo...I had the same chat at my BMW dealer. Until it fails, it's not defective under their warranty. They point out that many more do not fail than do. The tech suggested 5k oil changes to help prolong life. Also, he said to listen for a whining sound as first indication of trouble before catastrophic failure. The whining sound can support their warranty repair, he said.
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      06-09-2019, 08:52 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
Bingo...I had the same chat at my BMW dealer. Until it fails, it's not defective under their warranty. They point out that many more do not fail than do. The tech suggested 5k oil changes to help prolong life. Also, he said to listen for a whining sound as first indication of trouble before catastrophic failure. The whining sound can support their warranty repair, he said.
Understood, but if the whining sound happens after 70k miles, you're toast. Correct?
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      06-09-2019, 08:55 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maestrogustav View Post
Well, I stumbled in here to this forum and this thread, about 14 hours after putting a $500 deposit on a 2013 328i with 73k miles on it; purchase price is $13k from a BMW dealer. Not sure if my guy is there on Sundays; I'm supposed to pick the car up Monday evening after detailing.
Personally, I'd back out of that deal and walk away.
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      06-09-2019, 09:04 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by maestrogustav View Post
Understood, but if the whining sound happens after 70k miles, you're toast. Correct?
What I don't know is the differential repair cost at the warning sign (whining sound) versus after failure. But, either way, warranty no longer applies, as I was told. I am keeping to the 5k oil changes meanwhile and playing the odds given the rate of failure is high enough to be notable but by no means universal. One theory suggests being sure to turn off any auto start/stop function to reduce added and useless load on each restart.
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      06-09-2019, 09:31 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
What I don't know is the differential repair cost at the warning sign (whining sound) versus after failure. But, either way, warranty no longer applies, as I was told. I am keeping to the 5k oil changes meanwhile and playing the odds given the rate of failure is high enough to be notable but by no means universal. One theory suggests being sure to turn off any auto start/stop function to reduce added and useless load on each restart.
WTF?


Let me simplify:

Unless you absolutely have to, don't buy a high mileage, early model year N20 engined car because they are known to suffer higher than typical timing chain failure rates.

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      06-09-2019, 09:41 AM   #96
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WTF?
Having read how you write to/about others here in the key fob thread, you will now be on my "ignore" list. Feel free to place me on yours.
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      06-09-2019, 09:50 AM   #97
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you will now be on my "ignore" list.
Do it quietly. Nobody really cares.

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      06-09-2019, 10:10 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maestrogustav View Post
Well, I stumbled in here to this forum and this thread, about 14 hours after putting a $500 deposit on a 2013 328i with 73k miles on it; purchase price is $13k from a BMW dealer. Not sure if my guy is there on Sundays; I'm supposed to pick the car up Monday evening after detailing.

I will ask about the timing chain issue. My guy is straightforward, but he certainly didn't mention that I am conveniently 3k miles outside the warranty zone.

Can it be demanded to be changed preventatively, or must there be some "evidence" of a problem before they do it?

There were literally two customers lined up after me on Saturday afternoon to buy the car; I imagine they'll let me off the hook, or I could transfer the deposit to another vehicle. Advice anyone? I think this is my second or third post, and this would be my first BMW in the states since moving from Germany 10 years ago.

The car that brought me into the dealership was a 2015 335i with 44k miles, but it's 11 grand more. Ironically, my research on that vehicle concluded that the inline 6 had reliability issues. . .
Who told you that the I6 had reliability issues? The 335i dominates the 328i in every single way possible lol. The only thing that usually needs replacing is VCG and OFHG
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      06-09-2019, 10:43 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by sspade View Post
@dandurante what year is the vehicle? How many miles have you personally put on it?
It's a 2013MY that I've personally put 84k miles on.

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Originally Posted by Gen13 F36 View Post
Wow ... just like that " my first and will likely be my last BMW ". Man if I be like that I won't be able to own a car at all. With car troubles stories from relative and friends... what else can I buy that will be a perfect. I know I sound crazy but shit this happened to my brother Toyota by all the most reliable brand out there.

To end this Knock on wood big time.
Let me be clear here. Small problems and/or issues that are dealt with accordingly do not scare me or make me shy away from a brand. Overall the car has been great and I've been a car enthusiast my entire life. I've had plenty of "problematic" vehicle brands in the past. The reason I made a switch to BMW is because I knew I was quitting my corporate job and going into business for myself. I wanted a nice vehicle and it was between a newer S4 and the 328i. I couldn't justify the S4 financially and knew I wouldn't be happy in an A4 after driving Audis "higher end vehicles" previously. Plus I knew a lot of people who had issues with the Audi's 2.0 (Ironically) so between not wanting a lower end Audi and not being able to justify the $200 extra monthly payment for an S4, I choose the BMW.

I've had Audis up until I purchased this 328i. Previous to this I owned an S4 and an A8 both of which have known issues but the difference here is that Audi stepped up to the plate when they made mistakes.

To me, the most frustrating part is that this is such a widely known problem and BMW treats it as its not a huge issue.

***I Also Have An Update on the Class Action Lawsuit. I planned on pulling the motor myself and putting a new "pre-owned" motor into the vehicle. The layers told me to contact the local dealer and to tell them I know about the Lawsuit and see if they will do the work. I have to do that on Monday. I'll keep everyone posted on what happens... I have it at my buddies house so I can pull the motor if they refuse and get this thing back on the road.
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      06-09-2019, 11:23 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maestrogustav View Post
Well, I stumbled in here to this forum and this thread, about 14 hours after putting a $500 deposit on a 2013 328i with 73k miles on it; purchase price is $13k from a BMW dealer. Not sure if my guy is there on Sundays; I'm supposed to pick the car up Monday evening after detailing.

I will ask about the timing chain issue. My guy is straightforward, but he certainly didn't mention that I am conveniently 3k miles outside the warranty zone.

Can it be demanded to be changed preventatively, or must there be some "evidence" of a problem before they do it?

There were literally two customers lined up after me on Saturday afternoon to buy the car; I imagine they'll let me off the hook, or I could transfer the deposit to another vehicle. Advice anyone? I think this is my second or third post, and this would be my first BMW in the states since moving from Germany 10 years ago.

The car that brought me into the dealership was a 2015 335i with 44k miles, but it's 11 grand more. Ironically, my research on that vehicle concluded that the inline 6 had reliability issues. . .
As already mentioned by members above, walk away from the deal unless they can provide proof the timing chain has been replaced with the updated parts or if you want added peace of mind, purchase a aftermarket drivetrain warranty.

If you can stomach the extra $11k, go for the 335 as that was the vehicle you said that brought you into the dealership. Is the 335 CPO?
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      06-09-2019, 12:01 PM   #101
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Lots of good info and opinions above. My take...

If getting a late MY 2015 or newer model is an option, then I'd probably go that route for the peace of mind. In case you are not aware - these have the most up to date timing chain parts.

If not... and you do decide to purchase the 2013, your overall risk is very low - especially since you are purchasing from an actual BMW dealer. They have the maintenance history on this vehicle and purposely chose to retail it instead of wholesale'ing it. That usually means the car is ultra clean and well maintained.

There are countless members who have higher mileage, pre-2015 N20/N26 powered vehicles and report no issues.

I would visually and physically inspect the chain through the oil cap for signs of wear or slack. You'll want to do this with the engine warm.

It does seem that when someone comes on to post about their N20 having a timing chain issue - they are new forum members who appear to be clueless about maintenance and BMW in general. I believe most failures are due to poor maintenance and a "let the computer tell me what to do" mentality. These guys have commonly also let Auto Start Stop run a million times over. By coding that off and changing the oil every 5k miles, the motor will likely not have any issues.

I'd make sure the dealer is aware that you know the vehicle is susceptible to timing chain failure and in the event you do have an issue - they will have it on record.
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      06-09-2019, 12:38 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Mr Podman View Post
Personally, I'd back out of that deal and walk away.
From what I've heard since joining this group and timing chain issues on the N20 I'd back away from any car with an N20.
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      06-09-2019, 01:22 PM   #103
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No offense to SSPADE, but I couldn't disagree more.

Here's my take:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
If not... and you do decide to purchase the 2013, your overall risk is very low - especially since you are purchasing from an actual BMW dealer. They have the maintenance history on this vehicle and purposely chose to retail it instead of wholesale'ing it. That usually means the car is ultra clean and well maintained.
First, nobody knows what your risk is. But I think we can all agree, the more miles, the greater the chance of this failure, on cars that are affected by this. Do you want to feel like you're rolling the dice on a timing chain failure every time you take the car for a drive, and know that the likelihood goes up, the more miles you put on your car?

Second, purchasing it from a dealer does not make any difference. Yes, it probably means that it met the BMW maintenance schedule, but big deal. You can have any seller give you the maintenance history, from BMW. Plus this is the same maintenance schedule berated lower in your thread.

Quote:
There are countless members who have higher mileage, pre-2015 N20/N26 powered vehicles and report no issues.
YET. There's a design flaw and a likelihood for failure baked-in.

And how do you know who is reporting here and who is not?

Again, no one knows the rate of failure. But we do know there is an inherent design flaw -- and we could probably all agree, the more miles on the engine, the higher the likelihood of failure.

Quote:
I would visually and physically inspect the chain through the oil cap for signs of wear or slack. You'll want to do this with the engine warm.
Unless you're a mechanic, I'm not sure how you're going to know what amount of slack to look for. The only way this is going to be obvious is if the guide has already broken but the failure hasn't occurred yet, which is unlikely. Plus, a broken guide today doesn't decrease your chances of not having a broken guide tomorrow -- so this test provides little value. The FACT is, there's NO WAY to determine when the guide may, or may not, break.

Quote:
By coding that off and changing the oil every 5k miles, the motor will likely not have any issues.
Oil change intervals have not been linked to this failure. This has been addressed many times.

And the OP has no idea how often start/stop was used by the previous owners.

Quote:
I'd make sure the dealer is aware that you know the vehicle is susceptible to timing chain failure and in the event you do have an issue - they will have it on record.
Why would they have any sympathy for someone who knowingly rolled-the-dice and bought a car with a ticking time bomb in the engine -- that they were so aware of, they warned the dealership about?

My 2 cents: Unless it's a late 2015, or a 2016 model, personally, I would run for the hills.
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      06-09-2019, 01:32 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maestrogustav View Post
Well, I stumbled in here to this forum and this thread, about 14 hours after putting a $500 deposit on a 2013 328i with 73k miles on it; purchase price is $13k from a BMW dealer. Not sure if my guy is there on Sundays; I'm supposed to pick the car up Monday evening after detailing.

I will ask about the timing chain issue. My guy is straightforward, but he certainly didn't mention that I am conveniently 3k miles outside the warranty zone.

Can it be demanded to be changed preventatively, or must there be some "evidence" of a problem before they do it?

There were literally two customers lined up after me on Saturday afternoon to buy the car; I imagine they'll let me off the hook, or I could transfer the deposit to another vehicle. Advice anyone? I think this is my second or third post, and this would be my first BMW in the states since moving from Germany 10 years ago.

The car that brought me into the dealership was a 2015 335i with 44k miles, but it's 11 grand more. Ironically, my research on that vehicle concluded that the inline 6 had reliability issues. . .
Just ask to see the service records, and if it doesn’t show replacement of the timing chain then walk away. Also there’s no widespread reliability issues with the N55; it’s pretty solid since it’s an evolution of the N54.

With regards to the folks saying to get a 2015 model N20 (328i), IIRC it’s more nuanced than that. The change was rolled in to the various N20 engines for different models (X3, 3-series, 4-series, X1, etc) at different times. So you’ll need to google something like “N20 timing chain extended warranty” to see exactly which month the N20 was updated in the 328i. For example you might find that a 2015 328i built in August 2014 has the old parts, while a September 2014 build has the new parts (just making up those dates as an example of course)

Personally when I was looking at used 4-cylinder 2-series, the whole thing was such a confusing mess I decided to just make a 230i my baseline and skip the whole N20 mess.
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      06-09-2019, 01:36 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
What I don't know is the differential repair cost at the warning sign (whining sound) versus after failure.
It’s like 1.5k for the timing chain vs 11k for a blown engine, not even close.

If I had a suspect N20 over 70k miles and was planning on keeping it another few years, I’d just go ahead and replace it now. Just think of it as a $100/month for a year, vs $500/month for a new car lease payment.
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      06-09-2019, 01:40 PM   #106
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It’s like 1.5k for the timing chain vs 11k for a blown engine, not even close.
Interesting...I'd be very willing to spend the $1.5k at the first sound of a whine which is probably less than the cost of an extended warranty covering the engine. I'll hang on to the receipt in case any future legal action resolves this situation. Meanwhile, I'm still under BMW coverage through 2021 with the 7 year warranty and I'm not even at 20k miles yet.
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      06-09-2019, 01:45 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
Interesting...I'd be very wiling to spend the $1.5k at the first sound of a whine which is probably less than the cost of an extended warranty covering the engine. I'll hang on to the receipt in case any future legal action resolves this situation. Meanwhile, I'm still under BMW coverage through 2021 with the 7 year warranty and I'm not even at 20k miles yet.
If youíre under warranty then nothing to worry about. At the end of the warranty you could try telling the service tech you hear a whining sound whether or not there is one, see if you get lucky.
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      06-09-2019, 01:47 PM   #108
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If youíre under warranty then nothing to worry about. At the end of the warranty you could try telling the service tech you hear a whining sound whether or not there is one, see if you get lucky.
This is what I did and they said itís all good. But told me to come back one last time just before it extended warranty runs out.
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      06-09-2019, 01:56 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by chiefneil View Post
Itís like 1.5k for the timing chain vs 11k for a blown engine, not even close.

If I had a suspect N20 over 70k miles and was planning on keeping it another few years, Iíd just go ahead and replace it now. Just think of it as a $100/month for a year, vs $500/month for a new car lease payment.
If I owned one I'd consider doing that as well.
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      06-09-2019, 03:22 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natesi View Post
No offense to SSPADE, but I couldn't disagree more.

Here's my take:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
If not... and you do decide to purchase the 2013, your overall risk is very low - especially since you are purchasing from an actual BMW dealer. They have the maintenance history on this vehicle and purposely chose to retail it instead of wholesale'ing it. That usually means the car is ultra clean and well maintained.
First, nobody knows what your risk is. But I think we can all agree, the more miles, the greater the chance of this failure, on cars that are affected by this. Do you want to feel like you're rolling the dice on a timing chain failure every time you take the car for a drive, and know that the likelihood goes up, the more miles you put on your car?

Second, purchasing it from a dealer does not make any difference. Yes, it probably means that it met the BMW maintenance schedule, but big deal. You can have any seller give you the maintenance history, from BMW. Plus this is the same maintenance schedule berated lower in your thread.

Quote:
There are countless members who have higher mileage, pre-2015 N20/N26 powered vehicles and report no issues.
YET. There's a design flaw and a likelihood for failure baked-in.

And how do you know who is reporting here and who is not?

Again, no one knows the rate of failure. But we do know there is an inherent design flaw -- and we could probably all agree, the more miles on the engine, the higher the likelihood of failure.

Quote:
I would visually and physically inspect the chain through the oil cap for signs of wear or slack. You'll want to do this with the engine warm.
Unless you're a mechanic, I'm not sure how you're going to know what amount of slack to look for. The only way this is going to be obvious is if the guide has already broken but the failure hasn't occurred yet, which is unlikely. Plus, a broken guide today doesn't decrease your chances of not having a broken guide tomorrow -- so this test provides little value. The FACT is, there's NO WAY to determine when the guide may, or may not, break.

Quote:
By coding that off and changing the oil every 5k miles, the motor will likely not have any issues.
Oil change intervals have not been linked to this failure. This has been addressed many times.

And the OP has no idea how often start/stop was used by the previous owners.

Quote:
I'd make sure the dealer is aware that you know the vehicle is susceptible to timing chain failure and in the event you do have an issue - they will have it on record.
Why would they have any sympathy for someone who knowingly rolled-the-dice and bought a car with a ticking time bomb in the engine -- that they were so aware of, they warned the dealership about?

My 2 cents: Unless it's a late 2015, or a 2016 model, personally, I would run for the hills.
Very biased response. But no offense taken, this is a great thread with some honest opinions.
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