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      07-22-2018, 03:12 AM   #1
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BMW/Audi Comparison

Hi.
Sorry I know this is a BMW forum, but I have a 2015 xDrive Touring 335D and I have been considering trading it for a S4 Avant 2017/2018. The Audi dealer said something today to justify the crazy low price they offered me on my car, that comparing my 335D to their S4 was completely unreasonable. To get price comparison I should be bringing in an M3. I said I believed the 335D/I was the direct competition to the S4, but he said I was crazy.

I pointed out that Size, Price, Power, Spec and handling were very similar and that pricing wise the RS4 was more of a M3 comparison.

My 335D has optional Adaptive Steering and Suspension which he said all NZ new S4's come with as standard, but he showed me a Dynamic Steering optioned S4, which handled more in line with my car when it's in Sport mode.

His argument was I should compare the 3L Diesel A4 to the 335D.
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      07-22-2018, 07:58 AM   #2
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I agree with you. Sounds like he's not very knowledgeable. Send him a link to car and driver or motortrend.
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      07-22-2018, 08:50 AM   #3
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Isn't Audi part of that whole diesel scandal? Same company as VW, and unfortunately for them, Porsche. I'd never buy another VW product under any circumstances.
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      07-22-2018, 11:01 AM   #4
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It's a dealer and they're trying to get the lowest price on your car. Why are u surprised?
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      07-22-2018, 11:11 AM   #5
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Lol at the salesman saying you should be bringing in an M3 to compare with an S4. 354 hp platform vs 425-444 hp? $51k starting car to an upwards of $81k comp package car? Lol.

You were right in line with your car vs his, he is just either uniformed on BMW’s or trying to devalue your trade.

Nothing against Audi, good cars....but the only Audi I would personally ever consider over a BMW would be an RS7 or R8. And the fact BMW really has no super car to compare to the V10 R8.

Last edited by IDBGOD; 07-22-2018 at 11:21 AM..
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      07-22-2018, 11:43 AM   #6
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Audi in general has the edge on technology and is by far more advanced. This said, depending on the model and year there are quality issues.
The current A5/S5 is without a doubt much more advanced technology-wise, offers far more assistance systems than F3x. As one would expect from a much newer model. But it comes at a price.
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      07-22-2018, 12:10 PM   #7
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The s4 is generally comparable to a 335/340i. You'll always get arguments that the s4 performs better or is more performance oriented, and this might be true to an extent, but ultimately the s4 and 335/340i are basically in the same league.

The s4 is NOT in the same league as an m3/4. The RS cars compete more directly with the bmw M-cars, at least on paper.

Bottom line is, it seems like the dealer is trying to rip you off by low balling your trade in. Don't let him take money out of your pocket like that. Go to kbb, edmunds, or whatever and get an estimate for the value if your car. Fill in the dealer zip code, and be as accurate as possible when specifying the options your car has, and its condition. Also, kbb, and similar calculators, will give you a few values, use the value for a trade in at the dealership, if that's what you're intending to do. The estimated value they give will be fairly accurate regardless of what anyone might try to say to persuade you otherwise. Go into the dealer expecting to get around that figure, give or take 3% or so. If they offer you significantly less than the figure you obtained from kbb, thank them for their time and walk away. The value of your car is what it is, regardless of what you're looking to purchase or how the model compares to the car you want. They might also try to tell you that they can't offer more because they have the burden that comes with selling the car. If you use the value given for a trade in at a local dealership, it accounts for that already. No need to further low ball it.

If you get what you think is fair for your car, be careful that they don't try to take it from you later in the process. In other words, when the deal is drafted, they might try to charge an inflated amount for delivery services, additional coverages or products you purchased (like extended maintenance or warranty, clear coat treatments etc). If the final figure seems suspiciously high, question it. As the process goes on, they've invested a lot of time on your deal, so they're less likely to watch you walk away at that point. They're also banking on you being emotionally invested in purchasing the car by that point. Try not to allow that to weaken your resolve at the end.
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      07-22-2018, 03:15 PM   #8
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Just BS sales talk from the dealer. Most BMW/Audi models line up pretty well against each other.

Buy what you like but research the deal.

Remember this is where the Audi dealer is coming from. Audi sales are up BMW sales are down so he is playing if you don't buy someone else will.

Only way to get the best deal is to be prepared to walk away. Don't get emotionally attached to the potential car. It will cost you.
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      07-22-2018, 03:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
The s4 is generally comparable to a 335/340i. You'll always get arguments that the s4 performs better or is more performance oriented, and this might be true to an extent, but ultimately the s4 and 335/340i are in the same basic league.

The s4 is NOT in the same league as an m3/4. The RS cars compete more directly with the bmw M-cars, at least on paper.

Bottom line is, it seems like the dealer is trying to rip you off by low balling your trade in. Don't let him take money out of your pocket like that. Go to kbb, edmunds, or whatever and get an estimate for the value if your car. Fill in the dealer zip code, and be as accurate as possible when specifying the options your car has, and its condition. Also, kbb, and similar calculators, will give you a few values, use the value for a trade in at the dealership, if that's what you're intending to do. The estimated value they give will be fairly accurate regardless of what anyone might try to say to persuade you otherwise. Go into the dealer expecting to get around that figure, give or take 3% or so. If they offer you significantly less than the figure you obtained from kbb, thank them for their time and walk away. The value of your car is what it is, regardless of what you're looking to purchase or how the model compares to the car you want. They might also try to tell you that they can't offer more because they have the burden that comes with selling the car. If you use the value given for a trade in at a local dealership, it accounts for that already. No need to further low ball it.

If you get what you think is fair for your car, be careful that they don't try to take it from you later in the process. In other words, when the deal is drafted, they might try to charge an inflated amount for delivery services, additional coverages or products you purchased (like extended maintenance or warranty, clear coat treatments etc). If the final figure seems suspiciously high, question it. As the process goes on, they've invested a lot of time on your deal, so they're less likely to watch you walk away at that point. They're also banking on you being emotionally invested in purchasing the car by that point. Try not to allow that to weaken your resolve at the end.
As you say, S4 does not compete with M3.
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      07-22-2018, 03:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
The s4 is generally comparable to a 335/340i. You'll always get arguments that the s4 performs better or is more performance oriented, and this might be true to an extent, but ultimately the s4 and 335/340i are in the same basic league.

The s4 is NOT in the same league as an m3/4. The RS cars compete more directly with the bmw M-cars, at least on paper.

Bottom line is, it seems like the dealer is trying to rip you off by low balling your trade in. Don't let him take money out of your pocket like that. Go to kbb, edmunds, or whatever and get an estimate for the value if your car. Fill in the dealer zip code, and be as accurate as possible when specifying the options your car has, and its condition. Also, kbb, and similar calculators, will give you a few values, use the value for a trade in at the dealership, if that's what you're intending to do. The estimated value they give will be fairly accurate regardless of what anyone might try to say to persuade you otherwise. Go into the dealer expecting to get around that figure, give or take 3% or so. If they offer you significantly less than the figure you obtained from kbb, thank them for their time and walk away. The value of your car is what it is, regardless of what you're looking to purchase or how the model compares to the car you want. They might also try to tell you that they can't offer more because they have the burden that comes with selling the car. If you use the value given for a trade in at a local dealership, it accounts for that already. No need to further low ball it.

If you get what you think is fair for your car, be careful that they don't try to take it from you later in the process. In other words, when the deal is drafted, they might try to charge an inflated amount for delivery services, additional coverages or products you purchased (like extended maintenance or warranty, clear coat treatments etc). If the final figure seems suspiciously high, question it. As the process goes on, they've invested a lot of time on your deal, so they're less likely to watch you walk away at that point. They're also banking on you being emotionally invested in purchasing the car by that point. Try not to allow that to weaken your resolve at the end.
Are things like KBB valid in New Zealand?
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      07-22-2018, 04:23 PM   #11
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Thanks for the replies. I thought I was correct.

They want 90K NZD for the 2016 Audi S4 (A 10K Discount) and want to offer me 35K for my (very highly specd) 335D.

I just looked at him and asked him if he was joking.
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      07-22-2018, 04:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvisfan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
The s4 is generally comparable to a 335/340i. You'll always get arguments that the s4 performs better or is more performance oriented, and this might be true to an extent, but ultimately the s4 and 335/340i are in the same basic league.

The s4 is NOT in the same league as an m3/4. The RS cars compete more directly with the bmw M-cars, at least on paper.

Bottom line is, it seems like the dealer is trying to rip you off by low balling your trade in. Don't let him take money out of your pocket like that. Go to kbb, edmunds, or whatever and get an estimate for the value if your car. Fill in the dealer zip code, and be as accurate as possible when specifying the options your car has, and its condition. Also, kbb, and similar calculators, will give you a few values, use the value for a trade in at the dealership, if that's what you're intending to do. The estimated value they give will be fairly accurate regardless of what anyone might try to say to persuade you otherwise. Go into the dealer expecting to get around that figure, give or take 3% or so. If they offer you significantly less than the figure you obtained from kbb, thank them for their time and walk away. The value of your car is what it is, regardless of what you're looking to purchase or how the model compares to the car you want. They might also try to tell you that they can't offer more because they have the burden that comes with selling the car. If you use the value given for a trade in at a local dealership, it accounts for that already. No need to further low ball it.

If you get what you think is fair for your car, be careful that they don't try to take it from you later in the process. In other words, when the deal is drafted, they might try to charge an inflated amount for delivery services, additional coverages or products you purchased (like extended maintenance or warranty, clear coat treatments etc). If the final figure seems suspiciously high, question it. As the process goes on, they've invested a lot of time on your deal, so they're less likely to watch you walk away at that point. They're also banking on you being emotionally invested in purchasing the car by that point. Try not to allow that to weaken your resolve at the end.
Are things like KBB valid in New Zealand?
I don't know about kbb in particular but I imagine there's a car value calculator that'll cover that area.
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      07-22-2018, 04:53 PM   #13
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The other option is to wait and see if the G20 is any good, but I am reading that the 335D xDrive Touring is likely post xmas before orders are being taken and likely March/April for Delivery. I really rate my 335D, it handles amazing with Adaptive Suspension and Steering. Problem is I will not be able to test drive one before it arrives. I had a 335i 2011 touring before the 335D and I hated it. Way too much power compared to it's poor grip. My traction control was always coming on and leaving me stalled in the middle of the road. The 335D xDrive is the best car I've ever owned (though I don't love it like my old 2004 S4 Avant v8 for pure fun).
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      07-22-2018, 04:59 PM   #14
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My experience dates from the E46 M3 but no Audi "S" I've ever driven has ever come out ahead of an M car. The S4 was no competitor to my M3 and the S5, while an improvement and certainly powerful, didn't quite win the comparison either.

I did have an acquaintance drag me out of a bar to "surprise" me with his then-new 2007 S5. He then looked at me and announced, "It's an M3 killer" with a smug grin. My reply was "I'm sure that's what the salesman told you" and went back inside to my beer and friends.
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      07-23-2018, 09:57 PM   #15
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The S4 at best is an attempt by Audi to match the M3. You know what? They failed. A nice car but not a match for a well set up M3...just my opinion.
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      07-23-2018, 10:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
Isn't Audi part of that whole diesel scandal? Same company as VW, and unfortunately for them, Porsche. I'd never buy another VW product under any circumstances.
Actually, BMW was implicated in all of that too....not to the extent of VW though


There is a fantastic documentary on Netflix about that whole scandal...it's pretty sickening what they were up to and how stupid they were in trying to hide it.
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      07-23-2018, 11:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by networkn View Post
Hi.
Sorry I know this is a BMW forum, but I have a 2015 xDrive Touring 335D and I have been considering trading it for a S4 Avant 2017/2018. The Audi dealer said something today to justify the crazy low price they offered me on my car, that comparing my 335D to their S4 was completely unreasonable. To get price comparison I should be bringing in an M3. I said I believed the 335D/I was the direct competition to the S4, but he said I was crazy.

I pointed out that Size, Price, Power, Spec and handling were very similar and that pricing wise the RS4 was more of a M3 comparison.

My 335D has optional Adaptive Steering and Suspension which he said all NZ new S4's come with as standard, but he showed me a Dynamic Steering optioned S4, which handled more in line with my car when it's in Sport mode.

His argument was I should compare the 3L Diesel A4 to the 335D.
if he said you were crazy you should of walked out, thats insulting calling a potential customer crazy.. there must be other dealers in NZ...
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      07-24-2018, 06:52 PM   #18
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That guys is high as a kite.
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      07-24-2018, 07:15 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuefordTjustice View Post
S4 = 340i the S4 isn't comparable to a M3 on HP, price, etc. Not sure why you're making the comparison.
This. The RS5 is on the M3 level, but a different price point.

Audi's 3.0L turbo is a really nice unit. I have an SQ5 with it, and the same 8AT my 340 has. Their engine is smoother, and the out of the hole acceleration is actually better than my 340.

Both are great cars, and you'll be happy with either.
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      07-25-2018, 07:54 AM   #20
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As a point of interest, Audi is part of the VW Group. IMHO the VW Group (VW, Porsche, Audi, Bentley, etc) are one of the worst audio manufacturers as they DO NOT stand behind their known engineering and parts defects. The VW Group seems to virtually refuse to do recalls, etc. when their mistakes cause very expensive problems for owners. Heck, Ferrari was far better to deal with.

Anywho, bottom line is that even if you have had two Bentley cars, the VW Group seems to not care about fixing under warranty recall their expensive known defects. Be forewarned!
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      07-25-2018, 04:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enjoythemusic View Post
As a point of interest, Audi is part of the VW Group. IMHO the VW Group (VW, Porsche, Audi, Bentley, etc) are one of the worst audio manufacturers as they DO NOT stand behind their known engineering and parts defects. The VW Group seems to virtually refuse to do recalls, etc. when their mistakes cause very expensive problems for owners. Heck, Ferrari was far better to deal with.

Anywho, bottom line is that even if you have had two Bentley cars, the VW Group seems to not care about fixing under warranty recall their expensive known defects. Be forewarned!
Is this spoken from experience or just what you have read here and there online?

My previous car (2012 A6) with the same s4 engine in question, albeit detuned a bit, had a recall and the dealer fulfilled it no problems. So Idk where you are getting your information.


Anyhow, OP you are correct in being incredulous at the dealer's statement. The RS variants are the direct competitors to any M car. The s4 is competing against the 335/340. I would have continued on my Audi path and gotten into an s4 after the A6 but the S4s of the same year and mileage were 5-6K more than the 335i xdrive. I entered the bmw world just because of the larger aftermarket support. The Audi beats it in tech, comfort, and smoothness by far, but that's nothing that can't be solved with a tune and some coilovers
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      07-26-2018, 06:08 AM   #22
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Quote:
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Is this spoken from experience or just what you have read here and there online?
Personal, and those of 'friends' online on dicussion boards.

Alas, this dealing with with the VW Group corporate, talked politely to head of Bentley about the widely known defects, about being a two-time consumer of their luxury Bentley products... they don't care imho.

$17k for new top (known defective design)

http://robisonservice.blogspot.com/2...1-bentley.html

-- also --


$5k engine out for a $300 hose replacement. Known engineering flaw.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bent...w=1032&bih=680


BTW, look at the massive devaluation of Bentley cars on the secondhand market. That says quite a bit about their 'value' in the marketplace.
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Last edited by enjoythemusic; 07-26-2018 at 07:50 AM..
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