[rossm]

Originally Posted by teaston

You are the owner of the car on a PCP, just like you are the owner of a house with a mortgage on it

No mate the bank owns your house until the day you settle the finance. Have you not heard the phrase your home is at risk if you do not keep up the repayments.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by rossm

No mate the bank owns your house until the day you settle the finance. Have you not heard the phrase your home is at risk if you do not keep up the repayments. Its called a repossession!

No it is your possession to do with as you wish, as long as you keep up repayments. Only if you break the finance agreement they repossess it, i.e. they transfer 'possession' of the property from you to them.

[rossm]

You try selling your house without informing your lender. Sorry to burst your bubble mate but it's theirs and they just let you live there all the time you pay them

[Beancounter_74]

I'm sort of with teaspoon on this.

It's your house, you are the owner and named on the deeds and at the land registry.

The bank may be referenced as having a financial claim/security against the house, but it is yours.

That's the reason banks hold the deed documents in their safes/solicitors until you clear the mortgage, it's to stop you selling the house without their knowledge.

When you clear the mortgage/remortgage/sell, there is usually a small charge to release the deeds back to you or your solicitor

Also, the warnings sort of give a clue....'YOUR home is at risk'......

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Beancounter_74

I'm sort of with teaspoon on this.

It's your house, you are the owner and named on the deeds and at the land registry.

The bank may be referenced as having a financial claim/security against the house, but it is yours.

That's the reason banks hold the deed documents in their safes/solicitors until you clear the mortgage, it's to stop you selling the house without their knowledge.

When you clear the mortgage, there is usually a small charge to release the deeds back to you

Exactly, the lender just owns a financial interest which is secured against the property.

[rossm]

You can test this hypothesis by stop paying your mortgage and see how quickly you are made homeless with not a penny to show for your repayments to date.

Regardless of the name on the deeds, the owner remains the finance company until all payments are made

[Beancounter_74]

It's not about testing the hypothesis, it's about legal interpretation.

I agree, stop paying and you'll be out on your arse quicker than you can say "but I put a cheque in the post", but there will be a legal process to transfer the property to the bank for them to liquidate. It's all set out in your mortgage agreement.

If the house is subsequently sold for more money than the loan amount outstanding, then that is returned to the owner, less a shed load of fees I'm sure.

Likewise, if there is a deficit, then the owner will be claimed against or pushed for insolvency.

[chris-c]

How about you phone up someone and ask. You dont own it until its paid off in full.

https://www.parkers.co.uk/car-financ...and-insurance/
Who is the owner of the vehicle?
If you take out a Personal Contract Purchase (PCP) deal through the dealership then the lending company remains the owner of the car until the balance is paid in full or your term ends and you opt not to pay the final balloon payment.


https://hoa.org.uk/advice/guides-for...s-made-simple/
The lender will normally keep the title deeds of the property as a guarantee, and their interest in the property is lodged with the Land Registry
Lenders require that the mortgage is secured against your property, to ensure that if you cannot pay they don’t lose their money

[teaston]

Originally Posted by rossm

You can test this hypothesis by stop paying your mortgage and see how quickly you are made homeless with not a penny to show for your repayments to date.

Regardless of the name on the deeds, the owner remains the finance company until all payments are made

Breaking the finance agreement will obviously have repercussions, but it is no different to taking out a personal loan which is secured on your house, you can't sell the property without notifying that lender but it doesn't mean they own your house does it?

[rossm]

Originally Posted by teaston

Breaking the finance agreement will obviously have repercussions, but it is no different to taking out a personal loan which is secured on your house, you can't sell the property without notifying that lender but it doesn't mean they own your house does it?

Its yours in that you are entitled to live there peacefully and they can't just take it away from you without reason, but yes the very fact that you need their permission to sell it means it doesn't really belong to you

You couldn't just sell it to uncle Bob for £5 quid could you?

[teaston]

Originally Posted by rossm

Its yours in that you are entitled to live there peacefully and they can't just take it away from you without reason, but yes the very fact that you need their permission to sell it means it doesn't really belong to you

You couldn't just sell it to uncle Bob for £5 quid could you?

I think you're confusing the terms 'owning' & 'owning outright'.

[rossm]

No mate, the law is very clear over what constitutes financial fraud and what does not

[Witney]

The analogy between house purchase is and PCP / HP is just not helpful here...

House purchase - you own it with a charge by the mortgage company against the house.

PCP / HP - A conditional purchase agreement. Title is vested with the finance company until the Hirer pays all sums under the agreement. It is only at that time that ownership passes to the Hirer.

Very different situations.

[creepy coupe]

I sold a Mini JCW back in September. Got a settlement from Mini finance. With a reference number. Garage paid mini finance direct. I phoned Mini finance while at the garage to confirm BACS had gone though. Mini finance were happy a BACS is a good as cash.

[HighlandPete]

Ownership is another reason I'd rather not be under a PCP agreement. Someone else has an interest in the car, as it is really hired.

One thing I noted when I had a lease purchase contract, if you modify the car, the T&C's stated you need the permission of the lender.

Does that condition apply under the latest BMW FS agreements?

[creepy coupe]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Ownership is another reason I'd rather not be under a PCP agreement. Someone else has an interest in the car, as it is really hired.

One thing I noted when I had a lease purchase contract, if you modify the car, the T&C's stated you need the permission of the lender.

Does that condition apply under the latest BMW FS agreements?

Taken from the finance docs

d) not alter the Vehicle in any way without first obtaining our prior written
consent, and if we consent you must restore the Vehicle to its original
condition (at your cost) before returning the Vehicle to us

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by creepy coupe

Taken from the finance docs

d) not alter the Vehicle in any way without first obtaining our prior written
consent, and if we consent you must restore the Vehicle to its original
condition (at your cost) before returning the Vehicle to us

Thought it would be like the agreement I had.

Many users ignore the T&C's, as if it is their own car, but they are a reminder of who can call the shots.

[Witney]

Originally Posted by Beancounter_74

I'm sort of with teaspoon on this.

It's your house, you are the owner and named on the deeds and at the land registry.

The bank may be referenced as having a financial claim/security against the house, but it is yours.

That's the reason banks hold the deed documents in their safes/solicitors until you clear the mortgage, it's to stop you selling the house without their knowledge.

When you clear the mortgage/remortgage/sell, there is usually a small charge to release the deeds back to you or your solicitor

Also, the warnings sort of give a clue....'YOUR home is at risk'......

Banks / sols don't bother holding the deeds now as their charge is identified on the land registry title. They used to do so before all transactions included for first registration of land not already registered.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by creepy coupe

Taken from the finance docs

d) not alter the Vehicle in any way without first obtaining our prior written
consent, and if we consent you must restore the Vehicle to its original
condition (at your cost) before returning the Vehicle to us

I've never seen that!

[chris-c]

Originally Posted by Witney

Banks / sols don't bother holding the deeds now as their charge is identified on the land registry title. They used to do so before all transactions included for first registration of land not already registered.

My parents don't own both of their houses due to older contracts. It was easier to leave £1 outstanding on the mortgage and then the deeds were held by the solicitors for free rather than owning outright and them having to store them safely themselves or pay a solicitor to look after them.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by teaston

I've never seen that!

Don't think many users realise they don't really have total freedom in how they run their car on a PCP.

[Liquidfox]

Originally Posted by teaston

Exactly, the lender just owns a financial interest which is secured against the property.

Taken directly from BMWFS explanation document:

"We will remain the owner of the vehicle through the agreement"

Doesn't get any clearer than that I'm afraid.