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      09-17-2016, 01:47 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by antych View Post
You're not a freak, just an uneducated fool who can't read. I said it's population studies and it's proven not to work. Some people manage to burn off excess glucose while they are young and their metabolism is high, but it does nothing in stopping obesity epidemic. At worst you waste a lot of time and can injure yourself, trying to fix a problem you created in the first place. It's just dumb and you will eventually get fat as you get older.

Your best argument so far was "my wife is a dietitian". What are you still doing here?
And do you not see the irony here? It works for some and not others which is exactly what i told you the ketogenic diet is. Lay off the tin foil for a day and stop trying to shift responsibility to someone else for issues and maybe you'll learn something.

Edit: did you read your link?

The researchers behind the study found that people who have had success losing weight share a few things in common: They weigh themselves at least once a week. They restrict their calorie intake, stay away from high-fat foods, and watch their portion sizes. They also exercise regularly.

And the very first study listed wasn't a "population"study, it was a study of 30 people...

Last edited by csu87; 09-17-2016 at 01:53 PM..
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      09-17-2016, 02:17 PM   #46
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      09-18-2016, 10:29 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by antych View Post
Idiot
Good talk. Try harder next time.
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      09-19-2016, 11:28 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by csu87 View Post
And do you not see the irony here? It works for some and not others which is exactly what i told you the ketogenic diet is. Lay off the tin foil for a day and stop trying to shift responsibility to someone else for issues and maybe you'll learn something.

Edit: did you read your link?

The researchers behind the study found that people who have had success losing weight share a few things in common: They weigh themselves at least once a week. They restrict their calorie intake, stay away from high-fat foods, and watch their portion sizes. They also exercise regularly.

And the very first study listed wasn't a "population"study, it was a study of 30 people...
And for the past few months, I've laid off the carbs and only ate meats and fatty foods. Guess what..... I've lost weight. Fat foods is what we should be eating.

Ketogenic diet is not unhealthy. The kool-aid people are drinking that think that is some good shit. Who is her supplier?

We should not be researching articles in regards to statistical studies on what foods people eat to lose weight, but research articles that are scientific studies of the bodies digestive system. We should be learning how the body responds to different foods and see what it likes. I can guarantee you that what are body responds better too is also healthier.

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      09-19-2016, 11:45 AM   #49
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And for the past few months, I've laid off the carbs and only ate meats and fatty foods. Guess what..... I've lost weight. Fat foods is what we should be eating.

Ketogenic diet is not unhealthy. The kool-aid people are drinking that think that is some good shit. Who is her supplier?

We should not be researching articles in regards to statistical studies on what foods people eat to lose weight, but research articles that are scientific studies of the bodies digestive system. We should be learning how the body responds to different foods and see what it likes. I can guarantee you that what are body responds better too is also healthier.

Work of art the body is.
Eating better and limiting intake will always lose weight. And the Ketogenic Diet, if followed properly, can be effective for some and is not unhealthy, as I stated earlier. It is the people that dont understand what they are doing, or not monitoring properly that end up having issues while they are on the Ketogenic Diet.

Again, it is not for everyone and shouldnt be recommended at the frequency is it currently done. It is the latest fad for every "nutritionist" to say that you should go Keto.

A true Ketogenic Diet would involve measuring your food out, following strict guidelines with what you can/can not consume, and be followed up with routine labwork. You can easily go from healthy to kidney failure by not monitoring your body and knowing where you are at.
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      09-26-2016, 10:20 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by csu87 View Post
Again, it is not for everyone and shouldnt be recommended at the frequency is it currently done. It is the latest fad for every "nutritionist" to say that you should go Keto.

A true Ketogenic Diet would involve measuring your food out, following strict guidelines with what you can/can not consume, and be followed up with routine labwork. You can easily go from healthy to kidney failure by not monitoring your body and knowing where you are at.
Stop spewing this nonsense. You make it sounds like ketogenic diet is some abnormality that is dangerous to your life. You don't even understand how it works. Where did you get kidney failure from? What are you suppose to monitor and why? You're just making shit up.

You should do routine labwork for eating junk and flooding your system with glucose, which is a lot more dangerous to your body than ketosis, as evident by rising rates of type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome.

There are people on "standard western diet" dying every day from metabolic related causes, yet you think it's the healthy and lean people on ketogenic diet that need monitoring? lol
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      09-26-2016, 10:27 AM   #51
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I tend to Intermittent Fast for my diet. It works well with my hectic days. I did however try the keto diet, but it pysically doesn't work for me. I really wanted it to work for me, but I never came out of keto flu. I tried for three weeks and was in "flu" for about two - maybe 12 days. I am just not compatable with it, I suppose. I had my roomate try it after I had failed to switch and after his flu he loved it. He was only sick about four days and has been losing weight and making improvements in the gym ever since.

Edit: losts of discussion here, but I'll drop my two cents.

The long and the short of it, is if you avoid excess calories you lose wight. Sugar and other forms of it, (say alcohol), in excess are especially bad. If you eat controlled portions and eat avoid heavily processed foods you will live well. You don't need special diets to lose/gain weight (disregard medical conditions) as long as you are getting your macros in and are at your caloric goal.

Last edited by iEuropa; 09-26-2016 at 10:35 AM..
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      09-26-2016, 10:51 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by antych View Post
Stop spewing this nonsense. You make it sounds like ketogenic diet is some abnormality that is dangerous to your life. You don't even understand how it works. Where did you get kidney failure from? What are you suppose to monitor and why? You're just making shit up.

You should do routine labwork for eating junk and flooding your system with glucose, which is a lot more dangerous to your body than ketosis, as evident by rising rates of type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome.

There are people on "standard western diet" dying every day from metabolic related causes, yet you think it's the healthy and lean people on ketogenic diet that need monitoring? lol
Just do a little research and stop being so defensive

It is common knowledge (or at least most people know) that high protein diets can have adverse affects on the Kidneys. High levels of Ketones also makes your blood more acidic, which can also have adverse affects on the kidneys. These issues can be extremely dangerous for someone with a history of kidney issues, or even a family medical history of kidney issues with no prior symptoms. Every single person that is put on a ketogenic diet for medical reasons, closely monitors their ketone levels, kidney functions, etc. But go ahead and keep telling me how im wrong.

Get over yourself, we get it, you are Ketogenic. Starting to think the Keto Dieters are the new Vegans where everyone else is wrong...
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      09-26-2016, 12:11 PM   #53
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Yes, but he'd rather be on a diet that makes his breath stink, potentially damages his heart, isn't great for his kidneys and liver than do some research and realize that there are other means of losing weight that are just as effective and less likely to unforeseen health effects (this is generally true of all fad diets).
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      09-26-2016, 12:23 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csu87 View Post
Just do a little research and stop being so defensive

It is common knowledge (or at least most people know) that high protein diets can have adverse affects on the Kidneys. High levels of Ketones also makes your blood more acidic, which can also have adverse affects on the kidneys. These issues can be extremely dangerous for someone with a history of kidney issues, or even a family medical history of kidney issues with no prior symptoms. Every single person that is put on a ketogenic diet for medical reasons, closely monitors their ketone levels, kidney functions, etc. But go ahead and keep telling me how im wrong.

Get over yourself, we get it, you are Ketogenic. Starting to think the Keto Dieters are the new Vegans where everyone else is wrong...
How rich coming from you. You just keep proving you have no clue about ketogenic diet. You should be the one researching.

Ketogenic diet is not high protein. Quite the opposite, since excess protein is converted into glucose, it can prevent you from entering ketosis. It would be one of the first things you would have learnt about keto if you have made an effort.

That's one ignorant lie out of the way, now onto acidic blood. You are confusing ketosis with ketoacidosis, which is common among the most clueless. It's true that ketoacidosis is dangerous... for people with diabetes. They have to monitor their ketone levels for the same reason they have to monitor their glucose levels.

So yes, you are wrong. I don't care if you want stay ignorant, but if you can't be bothered to read, at least don't spread misinformation.
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      09-26-2016, 12:26 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
Yes, but he'd rather be on a diet that makes his breath stink, potentially damages his heart, isn't great for his kidneys and liver than do some research and realize that there are other means of losing weight that are just as effective and less likely to unforeseen health effects (this is generally true of all fad diets).
It's better than being on your diet that damages the brain, by the looks of it.

Last edited by antych; 09-26-2016 at 01:04 PM..
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      09-26-2016, 12:52 PM   #56
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For anyone who is misinformed about the keto diet, here is a new podcast you should listen to:

Can The Ketogenic Diet Prevent Disease?

Dom D’Agostino on Disease Prevention, Cancer, and Living Longer
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      09-26-2016, 01:04 PM   #57
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Sure ... you know chiropractors also believe they can cure cancer.

There is evidence to support the use of a ketogenic diet in conjunction with other cancer treatments. There is no evidence to support its use to prevent cancer. Just for the record, I don't buy snake oil either.
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      09-26-2016, 01:06 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antych View Post
How rich coming from you. You just keep proving you have no clue about ketogenic diet. You should be the one researching.

Ketogenic diet is not high protein. Quite the opposite, since excess protein is converted into glucose, it can prevent you from entering ketosis. It would be one of the first things you would have learnt about keto if you have made an effort.

That's one ignorant lie out of the way, now onto acidic blood. You are confusing ketosis with ketoacidosis, which is common among the most clueless. It's true that ketoacidosis is dangerous... for people with diabetes. They have to monitor their ketone levels for the same reason they have to monitor their glucose levels.

So yes, you are wrong. I don't care if you want stay ignorant, but if you can't be bothered to read, at least don't spread misinformation.
Im not sure if you read what I am saying or not?

And yes, the keto diet is a higher than normal protein diet. Recomendations for protein intake is .6-1.2g/lb per day on the Keto Diet. Normal recommended for someone not looking to build muscle is .3-.4g/lb per day. Every person that has ever tried to seriously gain muscle mass knows that there can be complications with this much protein. All depends on how your body tolerates it.

And yes, despite what you want to believe, high ketones do have the chance to make your blood more acidity than normal. This is dangerous to those who have pre-existing or underlying medical issues that they may or may not be aware of.

All i have been saying, is that it isnt for everyone and you should be careful if you plan on going Keto. It needs to be followed to the "T" to be done right and can be dangerous to those that dont follow correctly and/or have other medical issues. You are the one that cant seem to comprehend what I am saying. You can keep calling me ignorant, clueless, wrong, whatever you want, but it doesnt change the fact that you are not understanding the message here.
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      09-26-2016, 01:29 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by csu87 View Post
Im not sure if you read what I am saying or not?

And yes, the keto diet is a higher than normal protein diet. Recomendations for protein intake is .6-1.2g/lb per day on the Keto Diet. Normal recommended for someone not looking to build muscle is .3-.4g/lb per day. Every person that has ever tried to seriously gain muscle mass knows that there can be complications with this much protein. All depends on how your body tolerates it.

And yes, despite what you want to believe, high ketones do have the chance to make your blood more acidity than normal. This is dangerous to those who have pre-existing or underlying medical issues that they may or may not be aware of.

All i have been saying, is that it isnt for everyone and you should be careful if you plan on going Keto. It needs to be followed to the "T" to be done right and can be dangerous to those that dont follow correctly and/or have other medical issues. You are the one that cant seem to comprehend what I am saying. You can keep calling me ignorant, clueless, wrong, whatever you want, but it doesnt change the fact that you are not understanding the message here.
No, you're just stupid and making up numbers. There's no such protein intake recommendation for keto. Stop lying. On typical keto diet, as low as <15% of your calories come from protein. That's <.5g/lbs of lean weight.

Yeah sure, if someone has diabetes and doesn't know about it, he can die from ketosis. Just like he may die from eating cookies, for fuck sake.

You're wrong again and again. I understand your message, but that doesn't change the fact that you're wrong and are spreading lies. I'm fine debating the facts. I might even learn something new. The problem is that your knowledge of keto is pretty much nonexistant, but you act like you actually know something.
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      09-26-2016, 01:44 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by antych View Post
No, you're just stupid and making up numbers. There's no such protein intake recommendation for keto. Stop lying. On typical keto diet, as low as <15% of your calories come from protein. That's <.5g/lbs of lean weight.

Yeah sure, if someone has diabetes and doesn't know about it, he can die from ketosis. Just like he may die from eating cookies, for fuck sake.

You're wrong again and again. I understand your message, but that doesn't change the fact that you're wrong and are spreading lies. I'm fine debating the facts. I might even learn something new. The problem is that your knowledge of keto is pretty much nonexistant, but you act like you actually know something.
I'd love to see the literature you are using to base your diet off of and the diet plan you follow.

Every diet plan and diet literature I've have found recommends a 20-25% protein for those looking to just get "skinny" and a 35-40% with the occasional 45-50% protein for those looking to gain muscle.

You under-estimate the level of research I've put into the Keto Diet. I was going to go Keto, under proper medical supervision, about 2 years ago but decided lifestyle changes were better suited to me.

You can either intelligently debate or continue trying to make personal attacks. Your call.
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      09-26-2016, 05:12 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by csu87 View Post
I'd love to see the literature you are using to base your diet off of and the diet plan you follow.

Every diet plan and diet literature I've have found recommends a 20-25% protein for those looking to just get "skinny" and a 35-40% with the occasional 45-50% protein for those looking to gain muscle.

You under-estimate the level of research I've put into the Keto Diet. I was going to go Keto, under proper medical supervision, about 2 years ago but decided lifestyle changes were better suited to me.

You can either intelligently debate or continue trying to make personal attacks. Your call.
Here you go, I read a dozen books on the subject, the most recent being "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living" by Jeff Volek and Stephen Phinney.

How about you? Those protein ranges are a joke. Did you get them from some celebrity fad diet book? No one, on any diet needs that much protein. Current Mr Olympia Phil Heath consumes only 30% of his calories in protein. Even an ordinary guy would have to consume almost 500g of protein to hit those numbers. You can't be serious.

I don't think I under-estimate it, considering glaring errors in all your arguments. Someone spending 15 minutes reading reddit's keto FAQ would know more about it than you do. Not only you don't know anything about keto, you're equally clueless about protein demands and recommended intake of anything. Pretty much everything you said so far is wrong.

You don't respond to facts. You make shit up. This is what you call an intelligent debate?
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      09-26-2016, 06:47 PM   #62
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You don't respond to facts. You make shit up. This is what you call an intelligent debate?
Considering that your default response to any challenge to your perspective is to launch a personal attack, this is pretty rich.
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      09-26-2016, 07:08 PM   #63
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Considering that your default response to any challenge to your perspective is to launch a personal attack, this is pretty rich.
You conveniently ignore all false statements that I corrected, to which none of you were able to respond, But yes, all I do is personal attacks... interesting. Look at what you've contributed to this thread, wrong information and mockery, so GFY.
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      09-26-2016, 07:22 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by antych View Post
Here you go, I read a dozen books on the subject, the most recent being "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living" by Jeff Volek and Stephen Phinney.

How about you? Those protein ranges are a joke. Did you get them from some celebrity fad diet book? No one, on any diet needs that much protein. Current Mr Olympia Phil Heath consumes only 30% of his calories in protein. Even an ordinary guy would have to consume almost 500g of protein to hit those numbers. You can't be serious.

I don't think I under-estimate it, considering glaring errors in all your arguments. Someone spending 15 minutes reading reddit's keto FAQ would know more about it than you do. Not only you don't know anything about keto, you're equally clueless about protein demands and recommended intake of anything. Pretty much everything you said so far is wrong.

You don't respond to facts. You make shit up. This is what you call an intelligent debate?
funny you mention the Reddit Keto Faq... Maybe you should read it.

Not even 1/10th of the way down the page "keeping protein intake moderate, 0.69 to 1.2 grams per pound lean body mass. (1.5 to 2.64 grams per kg lean body mass.) - Note that going over 0.8 grams is only suggested for people doing heavy lifting and endurance training." (I said .6 to 1.2g/lb when you told me I was making things up...)

and your math is off as well. It is widely accepted that there are approximately 4 calories per gram of protein. Someone eating 500 grams of protein a day is getting a minimum of 2k calories from just protein. Phil Heaths typical daily consumption = "One day’s total consumption: 9394 calories, 910 g protein, 881 g carbs, 239 g" or 3640 calories from protein = 39%. http://workouttrends.com/mr-olympia-...t-routine-diet

average lean body mass of in shape Adult Male in the US is ~160lbs, or 110.4g of protein on the low end of this recommendation and 192g on the high end. Take a typical caloric intake of 2500 and the 4 calories per gram of protein formula, and you are looking at 18% on the low end, and 31% on the high end of just that one recommendation.

You can google "Ketogenic diet protein requirements" and see that the recommendations vary from one "expert" to the next.

Edit: Answer me what the daily g/lb protein intake is from Stephen Phinney. Looks like he did research with what he called a "moderate protein diet" that consisted of .8g/lb of protein. Be interested to see what he suggests now.

Last edited by csu87; 09-26-2016 at 07:30 PM..
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      09-26-2016, 10:22 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by antych View Post
You conveniently ignore all false statements that I corrected, to which none of you were able to respond, But yes, all I do is personal attacks... interesting. Look at what you've contributed to this thread, wrong information and mockery, so GFY.
Wrong information? I'll challenge that. Find one post in this thread from me that doesn't have a scientific basis. You may disagree with it (and some of it may be contested) but none of it is false (including my comment about sugar but I chose not to debate it).

If I've mocked you, maybe it's because you deserve it. Certainly, I haven't earned the kind of response you're spewing. You've called me stupid and you've told me to go f*** myself. You're clearly a paragon of intellectual debate, aren't you?
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      09-27-2016, 03:38 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by csu87 View Post
I'd love to see the literature you are using to base your diet off of and the diet plan you follow.

Every diet plan and diet literature I've have found recommends a 20-25% protein for those looking to just get "skinny" and a 35-40% with the occasional 45-50% protein for those looking to gain muscle.

You under-estimate the level of research I've put into the Keto Diet. I was going to go Keto, under proper medical supervision, about 2 years ago but decided lifestyle changes were better suited to me.

You can either intelligently debate or continue trying to make personal attacks. Your call.
You don't need any protein to be on a Keto diet and as a matter of fact, eating too much protein will actually kick you out of ketosis so you have to really regulate it.
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