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      03-11-2019, 04:11 PM   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
They should be very close unless the 335 is tuned. The turbo may have a jump but the E46 will pull away up top.
I actually had the opposite experience. Girlfriend (now wife) had an E90 335i and friend had an E92 335i, both automatics. Mine was SMG. I'd get a solid jump from the dig vs both (about a car), but by 50mph we'd be almost even and at 80mph they would be ahead by a half a car at least. I had wider tires than stock and these were consistent results. I was pissed.

IDK, just my experience, others will vary. I'm also at about 3700 ft. elevation in the TX summer so that hurts performance of an N/A motor as well.

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Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
By the way, what's the weight of the Supra?
I think they are about 3400-ish lbs. which is right around the neighborhood of the M3. I believe my M3 was quoted at about 3415 lbs. with the SMG, manuals are a little lighter.
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      03-11-2019, 06:48 PM   #486
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Another 2JZ swap coming.

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      03-12-2019, 02:52 PM   #487
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Another 2JZ swap coming.
WOW! I like it! Thanks for sharing!
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      03-13-2019, 11:36 AM   #488
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Originally Posted by jv004 View Post
It's actually not bad on looks, I think most of the hate is because of the BMW engine. Think that was a mistake on toyota's end, a big middle finger to their fanbase and sports car crowd. If they would of developed a nice engine since after 1998 then the reveal would of been much better received and more powerful. This feels more like a cash grab attempt.
If they didn't source an inline 6 from BMW, WHO could they possibly source an inline 6 from?

Or would the fanbase rather they put in a V-6 from their run of the mill cars?

Anyone suggesting that Toyota should have built a bespoken engine for the new Supra is smoking crack.
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      03-13-2019, 11:43 AM   #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
If they didn't source an inline 6 from BMW, WHO could they possibly source an inline 6 from?

Or would the fanbase rather they put in a V-6 from their run of the mill cars?

Anyone suggesting that Toyota should have built a bespoken engine for the new Supra is smoking crack.
I don't mind a BMW engine but why is the idea of Toyota creating an engine specific to the new Supra such a crazy idea?


You'd think they saved enough money having BMW do most of the R&D that they could afford it
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      03-13-2019, 12:20 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
I don't mind a BMW engine but why is the idea of Toyota creating an engine specific to the new Supra such a crazy idea?

You'd think they saved enough money having BMW do most of the R&D that they could afford it
Do you REALLY think that manufacturers just wave a magic wand and an engine just appears?

There's a reason why the B58 appears in nearly EVERY SINGLE BMW line-up. There's a reason why the INLINE 6 architecture has been in BMW's family of engines since the beginning of time. The engine is the HEART of a car. It is by far and away the most complex part of any moving vehicle that uses the internal combustion process. There's a reason why cars with bespoke engines typically cost north of 6 figures, and the first of those 6 figures don't usually start with a 1.

Anyone thinking that the new Supra is going to be a commercial success at $200,000 plus is also smoking crack.

Name me another car, in HISTORY of cars, that has had a brand new, completely designed from the ground up engine, that does not use some sort of existing architecture that the company already use.
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      03-13-2019, 12:36 PM   #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Do you REALLY think that manufacturers just wave a magic wand and an engine just appears?

There's a reason why the B58 appears in nearly EVERY SINGLE BMW line-up. There's a reason why the INLINE 6 architecture has been in BMW's family of engines since the beginning of time. The engine is the HEART of a car. It is by far and away the most complex part of any moving vehicle that uses the internal combustion process. There's a reason why cars with bespoke engines typically cost north of 6 figures, and the first of those 6 figures don't usually start with a 1.

Anyone thinking that the new Supra is going to be a commercial success at $200,000 plus is also smoking crack.

Name me another car, in HISTORY of cars, that has had a brand new, completely designed from the ground up engine, that does not use some sort of existing architecture that the company already use.

1999 F20C
2.0L 9000rpm
11.7 compression
250 n/a HP @8600 rpm
Only available in the Honda s2000
Held the n/a specific output for 10 years
Bespoke enough for you ?
$29k



If Toyota wanted to they could
The Supra was never really what they wanted to sell
It's the nx300 and Corollas and rav4s and CHRs
Supra brings people into show rooms and they drive home in the Camry
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      03-13-2019, 12:57 PM   #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikkagtr View Post
1999 F20C
2.0L 9000rpm
11.7 compression
250 n/a HP @8600 rpm
Only available in the Honda s2000
Held the n/a specific output for 10 years
Bespoke enough for you ?
$29k



If Toyota wanted to they could
The Supra was never really what they wanted to sell
It's the nx300 and Corollas and rav4s and CHRs
Supra brings people into show rooms and they drive home in the Camry
Is that the ONLY inline 4 block Honda has ever built? Like there's no other inline 4 blocks using similar technology before it, or hasn't had an inline 4 built for a while and it's the first inline 4 with V-TECH that they designed and built?

NO.

It's a highly tuned variant of Honda's F20 architecture. Just like the S54 is a variant of the S52 Euro block, Honda didn't have to design the F20C from scratch. They had an existing architecture that evolved into he F20C. Just like BMW's E46 M3 has a "bespoke" engine in that the S54 was only used in the E46 M3 and sparingly in the Z3 M and Z4 M. The block, architecture, design, all existed long before the F20C was placed in the S2000.

Is it unique? Yeah. But if you want to claim that Toyota can just wave a magic wand and a new xJZ platform will magically appear?

I've got some marshland to sell you in Florida.
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      03-13-2019, 01:14 PM   #493
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So did anyone actually order one? ETA when they hit the streets?
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      03-13-2019, 01:36 PM   #494
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The S54 is in absolutely no way as bespoke as the S2000's motor. Not that this has anything to do with the Zupra.

TVR has a bespoke straight six. Seems like if they could figure that out, the Camry Brigade probably could have sorted something out too.
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      03-14-2019, 02:15 PM   #495
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The F20c was based on Honda's F series, which was widely used in Preludes and Accords starting in the mid 90s. It ranged from 1.8 - 2.3L. Putting a performance head and stronger internal components into and existing block is hardly bespoke.

That's essentially the same story for all of the great performance engines, short of exotics.
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      03-14-2019, 02:35 PM   #496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pukicabuki View Post
The F20c was based on Honda's F series, which was widely used in Preludes and Accords starting in the mid 90s. It ranged from 1.8 - 2.3L. Putting a performance head and stronger internal components into and existing block is hardly bespoke.

That's essentially the same story for all of the great performance engines, short of exotics.
Based on, but only slightly. Fiber reinforced block, different liners, longitudinal mounting. It wasn't like they just used an existing block and stuck new heads on it.
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      03-14-2019, 08:05 PM   #497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Based on, but only slightly. Fiber reinforced block, different liners, longitudinal mounting. It wasn't like they just used an existing block and stuck new heads on it.
You're point?

All of those things are modifying an existing, and more widely used, platform to build upon. Fiber reinforcing and liners are the same thing. FRM is a form of sleaving but it's a compromise between expensive Nikasil coating and a low cost cast iron liner. It was also used in a number of other Honda performance engines. Not exactly unique. Machining a bell housing to mount a RWD transmission isn't earth shattering either.

Creating a low production engine from scratch is a completely different undertaking both in engineering and cost. The casting process alone for the block would make it cost prohibitive for anything short of a super car.

I'm actually a huge fan of the F20c. I swapped one into an AE86 and loved it. Its a great engine, but it's far from bespoke.
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      03-14-2019, 10:02 PM   #498
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Hope this isn't a sign of things to come:

http://www.thedrive.com/news/26848/s...-their-engines
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      03-14-2019, 10:30 PM   #499
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Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
Hope this isn't a sign of things to come:

http://www.thedrive.com/news/26848/s...-their-engines
That thing is cursed. Torque dip, lean out at high rpm, and now this.
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      03-15-2019, 02:03 PM   #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pukicabuki View Post
The F20c was based on Honda's F series, which was widely used in Preludes and Accords starting in the mid 90s. It ranged from 1.8 - 2.3L. Putting a performance head and stronger internal components into and existing block is hardly bespoke.

That's essentially the same story for all of the great performance engines, short of exotics.
The F Series in those cars you mentioned HAVE ZERO, NOT ONE IOTA related to the F20C.. They are similar to the H series of engines and from the 90s.

The F20C was a clean slate and is only in the S2000, they designed the K Series Motor eventually based on the F20C ( They share a ton just has traditional VTEC vs i )

K = F20 w/I-VTEC more or less ( same design ) but the F20 has no other Honda motor equivalent.. Just like Nissans VR38 which is hand built for the GTR.

People can hate Hondas but most of their engines are second to none, Even the B-Series which the K replaced is still a huge force to be reckoned with.
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      03-15-2019, 05:18 PM   #501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
If they didn't source an inline 6 from BMW, WHO could they possibly source an inline 6 from?

Or would the fanbase rather they put in a V-6 from their run of the mill cars?

Anyone suggesting that Toyota should have built a bespoken engine for the new Supra is smoking crack.
Build their own like Benz or freaking jaguar just did.

Lexus needs some engine choices, a new I6 would be greatly appreciated. Also their pickups and trucks could seriously use an beefy I6. Id love to see a lexus LC with a 400/500hp I6.

Id much rather a true ft1 supra with their own engine, a real toyota then the abomination they are peddling.
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      03-15-2019, 09:36 PM   #502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nextbooost View Post
Build their own like Benz or freaking jaguar just did.

Lexus needs some engine choices, a new I6 would be greatly appreciated. Also their pickups and trucks could seriously use an beefy I6. Id love to see a lexus LC with a 400/500hp I6.

Id much rather a true ft1 supra with their own engine, a real toyota then the abomination they are peddling.
Toyota also makes another Killer I6 overseas that has made even more power than the 2JZ its called the 1FZFE and its made over 1800HP DOHC 4.5 liters (2J has as well, Just another engine they make ).

So without a doubt Toyota has the skill and the know how x1000 they just cheaped out which is strange for the worlds largest auto manufacturer.

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      03-16-2019, 09:22 PM   #503
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http://www.instagram.com/p/BvB5uTnlBv-/
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      03-18-2019, 06:12 PM   #504
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All of the vents do appear to be functional on the GT4 car.




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      03-18-2019, 11:28 PM   #505
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All of the vents do appear to be functional on the GT4 car.
Just because they have holes in them doesn't mean they are functional/needed.
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      03-22-2019, 12:17 AM   #506
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I am going to get a red one, or a gray one. It is a decently priced BMW and I like the styling. Abomination? Heck no.
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