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      07-24-2018, 02:19 PM   #45
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I'm looking forward to the G 3-series...with cautious optimism. I really like the new 5's interior but dislike the exterior. If the new 3 has an exterior similar to the 5, it might be difficult for me to develop an affinity for it, just like I never did for the E90.
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      07-24-2018, 02:27 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
It's not surprising. That's not the point. Are you saying we can't complain about this? Why are we here? Why are you here?
I don't know, why are you here? You say the same things all the time as well. You whine about the steering in the F30, talk about how great your GTI is and whine about the steering in the F30 some more. Then you talk about manual transmissions and being 'connected' to the car. The ongoing complaining about lack of manual transmissions in cars and how transcendental it is driving a car with a manual transmission is ludicrous and amusing at the same time, so I comment on it.
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      07-24-2018, 04:12 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Kafkaesque328 View Post
I don't know, why are you here? You say the same things all the time as well. You whine about the steering in the F30, talk about how great your GTI is and whine about the steering in the F30 some more. Then you talk about manual transmissions and being 'connected' to the car. The ongoing complaining about lack of manual transmissions in cars and how transcendental it is driving a car with a manual transmission is ludicrous and amusing at the same time, so I comment on it.
The steering in the GTI IS miles better than that of the F30. Be my guest and dispute me on that. And I donít talk about metaphysical reasons why I prefer to shift for myself. I like it because I feel itís more involving.
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      07-24-2018, 04:43 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
I am but don't feel like paying $50k for a Mexican Bmw...
Some versions will continue to be built in Munich.
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Originally Posted by GeorgeF31 View Post
Only if it comes in wagon form on the U.S.
This is guaranteed not to happen.
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Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
I'm just going to bet it all that BMW will in fact release a manual M340i.
This is guaranteed not to happen. I'm accepting bets of Lagavulin 16 vs your favorite drink up to $300 value (I know the Lagavulin is much less expensive, but it wouldn't be fair to you otherwise).
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
You'll have to trust me that the two images below are parts of the output for the same car:
Attached Images
  
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      07-24-2018, 06:51 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by natesi View Post
BMW will have to fix the rampant amount of creeks and rattles in the new generation before I ever considering buying another 3 series. My 2016 has at least twice as many rattles than any other car I've ever owned in my life -- including an old 2002 Elantra that I drove for over 10 years. It makes your "new car" feel like a total piece of junk. It's embarrassing to even give people rides in my car. BMW is shooting themselves in the foot -- not only might I not buy another BMW because of this, but I'm sure anyone who rides in my car will never buy a BMW either.
Maybe you but not the majority of owners. Mine is rattle and creek free as many others are. SMH.
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      07-24-2018, 07:01 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
I am but don't feel like paying $50k for a Mexican Bmw...
Some versions will continue to be built in Munich.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeF31 View Post
Only if it comes in wagon form on the U.S.
This is guaranteed not to happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
I'm just going to bet it all that BMW will in fact release a manual M340i.
This is guaranteed not to happen. I'm accepting bets of Lagavulin 16 vs your favorite drink up to $300 value (I know the Lagavulin is much less expensive, but it wouldn't be fair to you otherwise).
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
You'll have to trust me that the two images below are parts of the output for the same car:
382 hp!
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      07-24-2018, 07:06 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Blubaron79 View Post
382 hp!
That's not news. Don't know if there were other, earlier sources, but I posted this number back in November.
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      07-24-2018, 07:11 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubaron79 View Post
382 hp!
That's not news. Don't know if there were other, earlier sources, but I posted this number back in November.
True, but I just like that it's coming from an official looking thing (order guide or something). ;-)
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      07-24-2018, 07:13 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Savageenterprise View Post
Itís a damn shame that all the automakers are ousting the MT. Life isnít about 0-60 times
As everyone pushes towards autonomous driving, the MT will one of those "cool things" you will only read about or see in a museum.

If you want a MT, but one now, as most car manufacturers are making them disappear....
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      07-24-2018, 07:30 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Wires View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savageenterprise View Post
It's a damn shame that all the automakers are ousting the MT. Life isn't about 0-60 times
As everyone pushes towards autonomous driving, the MT will one of those "cool things" you will only read about or see in a museum.

If you want a MT, but one now, as most car manufacturers are making them disappear....
I'm not sure manuals are disappearing altogether. They're being phased out in certain segments, like luxury, but are still offered in most u.s. domestic, as well as import hot hatches, us sport/muscle cars like Camaro, vette, stang, gt350/500, some Japanese makes like Mazda, Honda etc also still offer manuals in some of their models. Wrx, Miata, and brz/86 still come with manuals as well. I'm sure there are still others I'm missing that offer a manual transmission. Obviously these are mostly models marketed toward driving enthusiasts, and many people might not want these cars, but I think reports of the manual's demise are bit exaggerated.
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      07-24-2018, 07:52 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3A53 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
I'm not sure manuals are disappearing altogether. They're being phased out in certain segments, like luxury, but are still offered in most u.s. domestic and import hot hatches, us sport/muscle cars like Camaro, vette, stang, gt350/500, some Japanese makes like Mazda, Honda etc also still offer manuals in some of their models. Wrx, Miata, and brz/86 still come with manuals as well. I'm sure there are still others I'm missing that offer a manual transmission. Obviously these are mostly models marketed toward driving enthusiasts, and many people might not want these cars, but I think reports of the manual's demise are bit exaggerated.
The small sports car segment q1 2018 is down 40% from a year earlier.
I don't know how that 40% breaks down, but I will say that it seems like many of the more exotic, performance cars like Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, have been phasing out manuals for a while, in favor of faster shifting dct type transmissions. Theyre focused on obtaining the best performance as measured by statistics, in a market where those numbers are getting more extreme and difficult to compete with, and a person cant shift as quickly as software. The less extreme sports cars that are less focused on 2 second 0-60 runs, and more about just being enjoyable, seem to be where manuals are still offered. In all seriousness, I don't think manuals will completely go away until autonomous vehicles are mandated by law. Can you imagine a world that offers the Miata in auto only? Maybe if it eventually evolves into a 350 hp midsize sedan or crossover.....(sort of like the 3 series
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      07-24-2018, 08:50 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
As everyone pushes towards autonomous driving, the MT will one of those "cool things" you will only read about or see in a museum.

If you want a MT, but one now, as most car manufacturers are making them disappear....
Already ordered .....canít wait to get her
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      07-24-2018, 08:57 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
I'm not sure manuals are disappearing altogether. They're being phased out in certain segments, like luxury, but are still offered in most u.s. domestic, as well as import hot hatches, us sport/muscle cars like Camaro, vette, stang, gt350/500, some Japanese makes like Mazda, Honda etc also still offer manuals in some of their models. Wrx, Miata, and brz/86 still come with manuals as well. I'm sure there are still others I'm missing that offer a manual transmission. Obviously these are mostly models marketed toward driving enthusiasts, and many people might not want these cars, but I think reports of the manual's demise are bit exaggerated.
Yeah semi exaggerated....but still, I feel like itís one of those things that should remain traditional within the automotive industry. At least we still have Porsche, just need to make an extra 50k a year, nbd
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      07-24-2018, 09:50 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3A53 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
I don't know how that 40% breaks down, but I will say that it seems like many of the more exotic, performance cars like Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, have been phasing out manuals for a while, in favor of faster shifting dct type transmissions. Theyre focused on obtaining the best performance as measured by statistics, in a market where those numbers are getting more extreme and difficult to compete with, and a person cant shift as quickly as software. The less extreme sports cars that are less focused on 2 second 0-60 runs, and more about just being enjoyable, seem to be where manuals are still offered. In all seriousness, I don't think manuals will completely go away until autonomous vehicles are mandated by law. Can you imagine a world that offers the Miata in auto only? Maybe if it eventually evolves into a 350 hp midsize sedan or crossover.....(sort of like the 3 series
People just don't seem to be very interested in buying fun to drive or high performance cars anymore.

Q1 2018 vs Q1 2017
Small sports cars: -40.2%
Large sports cars: -11.0%
Exotic sports cars: -8.8%

Minicar: -15.1%
Subcompact: -18.6%
Premium compact car: -7.5%
Compact car: -10.1%
Premium mid size car: +6.1%
Mid size car: -12.7%
Premium large car: unchanged
Large car: -12.5%

Subcompact suv: +33.3%
Compact SUV: +17.1%
Midsize SUV: +7.1%
Premium midsize SUV: +17.3%
Large SUV: +5.8%
Premium large SUV: -1.6%

Compact pickup: +21.3%
Full size pickup: -0.6%

From carsalesbase.com
Yeah, true. More people are buying cars strictly as utilitarian appliances. When I first bought a bmw, I received a number of snarky comments ranging from, "you know that thing will break down after 30k miles", to "If you want luxury, why not just get a Lexus", or "cars are just for going from point a to point b, and a Camry will do that just fine". I think a lot of it has to do with the culture in modern industrialized nations. Everyone's idea of fun is sitting around eating and drinking while being entertained. Even when many people travel, it basically involves simply eating, drinking and consuming some form of passive entertainment in a different location.

Driving, in its purer forms, isn't passive entertainment. As a driver you have to be alert and actively create your own fun. You're the performing artist and the audience simultaneously. Let's be forthright too, and admit that some of the excitement inherent to driving derives from the fact that it's a bit dangerous. In our over-legislated, increasingly nanny-coddled society, there's less and less tolerance for such activities. As a responsible, sane citizen we should look forward to sitting around in a safe, secure, climate controlled environment while consuming whatever is being presented to us. For those that need more, you can use a virtual gaming system to replicate the experience in silica. Who needs actual, loud, polluting performance cars (sarcastically stated of course).

That said I think you can still have a satisfying drive in a car outfitted with one of the better modern automatics. In all honesty, being in an urban area, I'd rather have a transmission like the zf8 speed in a fun dd like a bmw. I do think some cars need a manual though, and as long as these niche vehicles exist, and there's some enthusiasts left to purchase them, there'll be manuals. You'll just have to look to the fringes of the automotive world to get them. It's like how if you're in the market for something like a mustang or Camaro, you're looking for a v8. What's the point of getting a pony car with a turbo 4 or v6 for that matter. It's not as if it's a nice car with high build quality or other amenities to offer. It's all about the raw na v8, regardless of how fast and torquey the eco-boost-whatever is. I can't imagine such cars being offered without a v8 or manual, until the time comes when they're effectively legislated out of existence.
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      07-24-2018, 11:04 PM   #59
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That's not the G20.. You'll have to wait till 2020 for the new 4 series.
Agreed. I wonder what the chassis designation will be ... G26?
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      07-25-2018, 12:09 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by ProjectBoost View Post
Maybe you but not the majority of owners. Mine is rattle and creek free as many others are. SMH.
Yeah, mine is solid except for this occasional passenger side buzz I haven't been able to source. I'm rarely a passenger in my car and I blame run flats, m sport suspension and bad roads. All in all though, solid
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      07-25-2018, 12:16 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Yeah, true. More people are buying cars strictly as utilitarian appliances. When I first bought a bmw, I received a number of snarky comments ranging from, "you know that thing will break down after 30k miles", to "If you want luxury, why not just get a Lexus", or "cars are just for going from point a to point b, and a Camry will do that just fine". I think a lot of it has to do with the culture in modern industrialized nations. Everyone's idea of fun is sitting around eating and drinking while being entertained. Even when many people travel, it basically involves simply eating, drinking and consuming some form of passive entertainment in a different location.

Driving, in its purer forms, isn't passive entertainment. As a driver you have to be alert and actively create your own fun. You're the performing artist and the audience simultaneously. Let's be forthright too, and admit that some of the excitement inherent to driving derives from the fact that it's a bit dangerous. In our over-legislated, increasingly nanny-coddled society, there's less and less tolerance for such activities. As a responsible, sane citizen we should look forward to sitting around in a safe, secure, climate controlled environment while consuming whatever is being presented to us. For those that need more, you can use a virtual gaming system to replicate the experience in silica. Who needs actual, loud, polluting performance cars (sarcastically stated of course).

That said I think you can still have a satisfying drive in a car outfitted with one of the better modern automatics. In all honesty, being in an urban area, I'd rather have a transmission like the zf8 speed in a fun dd like a bmw. I do think some cars need a manual though, and as long as these niche vehicles exist, and there's some enthusiasts left to purchase them, there'll be manuals. You'll just have to look to the fringes of the automotive world to get them. It's like how if you're in the market for something like a mustang or Camaro, you're looking for a v8. What's the point of getting a pony car with a turbo 4 or v6 for that matter. It's not as if it's a nice car with high build quality or other amenities to offer. It's all about the raw na v8, regardless of how fast and torquey the eco-boost-whatever is. I can't imagine such cars being offered without a v8 or manual, until the time comes when they're effectively legislated out of existence.
Excellent post and spot on. I have owned something like 13 cars in my life, 3 of them automatics and spent 9+ years driving manual transmission cars in L.A. Hands down, my current car, a 328i in this iteration, jb+, m sport suspension and this transmission, I easily enjoy this car and the overall driving experience of this car more than any other car I have ever had. I love driving it every day and the ZF8 has a huge part in that. If someone told me I could get my exact car in a manual, tomorrow, at zero cost to me... no chance. I drove the 340i F30 with the 6 speed manual and auto rev matching. It was great. But for a daily driver in various conditions, traffic, no traffic, suburbs, highways, city streets, day in and day out, I want seamless and this is it. I don't ever want tedious.
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      07-25-2018, 12:07 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
I'm not sure manuals are disappearing altogether. They're being phased out in certain segments, like luxury, but are still offered in most u.s. domestic, as well as import hot hatches, us sport/muscle cars like Camaro, vette, stang, gt350/500, some Japanese makes like Mazda, Honda etc also still offer manuals in some of their models. Wrx, Miata, and brz/86 still come with manuals as well. I'm sure there are still others I'm missing that offer a manual transmission. Obviously these are mostly models marketed toward driving enthusiasts, and many people might not want these cars, but I think reports of the manual's demise are bit exaggerated.
That is correct (for now). But as the clock moves forward, you'll see less and less manuals. Vette's get pushed with auto's heavily (seems sort of sacrilegious to have a sports car with an auto). Same deal with Lambos and others. Current automatics have reached a point that they can handle the insane power loads, and are still reliable, so they are utilized more.
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      07-25-2018, 12:16 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
I am but don't feel like paying $50k for a Mexican Bmw... plus I feel like the 3 has lost its charm quite a bit.

I will mostly skip it for the X5 or 5 series...

Unless the 3 is outstanding in the steering feel department.
lol....what?
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      07-25-2018, 02:35 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Yeah, true. More people are buying cars strictly as utilitarian appliances. When I first bought a bmw, I received a number of snarky comments ranging from, "you know that thing will break down after 30k miles", to "If you want luxury, why not just get a Lexus", or "cars are just for going from point a to point b, and a Camry will do that just fine". I think a lot of it has to do with the culture in modern industrialized nations. Everyone's idea of fun is sitting around eating and drinking while being entertained. Even when many people travel, it basically involves simply eating, drinking and consuming some form of passive entertainment in a different location.

Driving, in its purer forms, isn't passive entertainment. As a driver you have to be alert and actively create your own fun. You're the performing artist and the audience simultaneously. Let's be forthright too, and admit that some of the excitement inherent to driving derives from the fact that it's a bit dangerous. In our over-legislated, increasingly nanny-coddled society, there's less and less tolerance for such activities. As a responsible, sane citizen we should look forward to sitting around in a safe, secure, climate controlled environment while consuming whatever is being presented to us. For those that need more, you can use a virtual gaming system to replicate the experience in silica. Who needs actual, loud, polluting performance cars (sarcastically stated of course).

That said I think you can still have a satisfying drive in a car outfitted with one of the better modern automatics. In all honesty, being in an urban area, I'd rather have a transmission like the zf8 speed in a fun dd like a bmw. I do think some cars need a manual though, and as long as these niche vehicles exist, and there's some enthusiasts left to purchase them, there'll be manuals. You'll just have to look to the fringes of the automotive world to get them. It's like how if you're in the market for something like a mustang or Camaro, you're looking for a v8. What's the point of getting a pony car with a turbo 4 or v6 for that matter. It's not as if it's a nice car with high build quality or other amenities to offer. It's all about the raw na v8, regardless of how fast and torquey the eco-boost-whatever is. I can't imagine such cars being offered without a v8 or manual, until the time comes when they're effectively legislated out of existence.
Good points. It's all about the smart phone now, where the pursuit of gratification may be just a thumbpress away. Android is the new nicotine.

You used to hear guys stand around and talk cars, but that is about as rare as guys standing around talking baseball. But on the plus side, people do still enjoy experiences. Planes are full, cruise ships are full, the National Parks are full. Some people still do read books. I even saw someone reading a newspaper in public the other day. So there is hope...for now.
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      07-25-2018, 02:56 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Wires View Post
That is correct (for now). But as the clock moves forward, you'll see less and less manuals. Vette's get pushed with auto's heavily (seems sort of sacrilegious to have a sports car with an auto). Same deal with Lambos and others. Current automatics have reached a point that they can handle the insane power loads, and are still reliable, so they are utilized more.
And the next generation mid engine Corvette with only be available with a DCT.
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      07-25-2018, 02:58 PM   #66
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I'd be on a waiting list for a new G20 M340i 6MT.
Might order a 2018 330i/340i 6MT before the window closes in a few weeks
There won't be a 6MT. Better get one now. 6MT is only on 320 and maybe 330.
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