10-08-2018, 07:57 AM | #23 | |
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- showing about 15hp increase w/ no tune, and over 30hp with the tune. Now over 500 pieces sold. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqYZLsQgY6g |
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10-08-2018, 10:44 AM | #24 |
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But on a diesel it doesn't work that way because there is not a fixed air to fuel ratio...
On a gas car, the extra air density as measured by MAF will increase fueling by closed loop control. However, on a diesel, being fuel throttled, there is much more variability in afr, it will not increase fueling when there's extra air, and it will still make roughly the same power.
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11-19-2018, 02:02 PM | #25 |
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Hi guys. I've accidently ordered a n55 intercooler for my n47 f31 320d. Will a n55 intercooler fit n47 with or without modifications? Suggestions are much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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11-19-2018, 10:15 PM | #26 |
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Yes, the N55 intercooler will fit for N47. I've had the stock intercoolers of a 435i and my 328dx side by side and they're the same form factor. Like-wise I installed the Wagner EVO 2 Comp from this comparison in my friend's 435i without issues.
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11-20-2018, 02:39 AM | #27 |
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03-30-2019, 01:19 AM | #28 | |
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04-06-2019, 10:42 PM | #29 | |
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I'm curious to get your comments. In some recent discussions about the engine airflow on the N55, it seems like the airflow is limited at the stock plastic unpressurized pipe that is constricted to a 1.875" diameter where it connects to the turbocharger inlet. Pure Turbos has a replacement pipe that mates up perfectly to the turbo inlet so it can provide up to 42% more airflow. This is more than enough for higher capacity turbos that still inhabit the stock turbo housing. But the added airflow of the larger inlet pipe doesn't really generate more power with the stock turbo which is already sized correctly by the factory for the stock inlet pipe. In the discussions it was mentioned that around 20-22psi is the maximum boost available with the stock setup. I appreciated your comments about pressure loss across the intercooler. Mike at X-PH first pointed it out to me. I wanted to modify my 2015 335i xDrive while limiting turbo lag as much as possible. My goal is a FUN street performance daily driver, not a high rpm track car. My car spends most of its time starting from 0. Mike suggested that I go with the high flow tube & fin Wagner, but he also recommended that it be the smaller Competition EVO1 (instead of EVO2) to minimize turbo lag as much as possible. It really works as advertised. Soon the exhaust will breathe as well as possible with a catted Fabspeed downpipe as well as a BootMod3 Stage2 93 octane tune. Any additional comments on the above topics would be appreciated. |
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04-07-2019, 08:17 AM | #30 |
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Farkle...fantastic article, and great journal etc keep up the good work.
I'm based in the UK and have a 2019 335d F1 Xdrive.......previously had an E60 535d M Sport which was remapped to 350hp/700nm which ran 100k miles with no issues. Considered but never did upgrade the intercooler. I am breaking in the new car for a few 000 miles before a similar remap which should make about 360-370hp/750nm and I am definitely going to do the IC this time. I had settled on a CSF due to ease of fitment and perceived performance improvements e.g. see this link from a renowned UK tuner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnX4xSK89K8&t=175s Now use have me wondering as my car is a daily driver and some "spirited" backroad driving and any significant increased lag would be a PITA for me. Our roads are much more twisty, full of potholes, often wet and temps probably much lower than yours.........any thoughts / recommendations as you have clearly done your homework? |
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04-08-2019, 07:49 AM | #31 |
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Hi FaRKle! - great review, and I like your objectivity and logging. Well done for taking the time to do it. I've revisited your thread several times as I do my research regarding ICs and whether the investment would be worth it for my 330d which is already mapped to ~350bhp and 525lbft.
The CSF and the ATM appear to be almost identical in terms of design (bar and plate) and dimensions. Interesting to see your graphs showing that the ATM outperformed the Wagner at almost every data point, and in terms of recovery from potential heat soak. The Wagner unit for the 330d has 4 rows of bars and fins in the upper stepped IC core, whereas the CSG and ATM units both have 7. It could well be that the additional cooling rows are sufficient to offset the potential disadvantages of bar and plate and even to outperform the theoretical advantages of tube and fin i.e. faster heat dissipation and IAT recovery. I'd be interested in your thoughts, and others who may be able to add their informed views on this. I've asked CSF and ATM to verify the correct part number for the F3X 30D, just to make sure that they are both 100% compatible.
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04-09-2019, 12:17 AM | #32 | ||
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It's very clear to me that CSF copied ATM's form factor. The dimensions are within a 1mm of the ATM. The main difference between their and ATM's ICs are that CSF uses two separate cores (upper and lower) vs ATM's single piece core. CSF's lower core has a higher fin density than ATM, which is also seen in the weight (theirs is 1.5-2lbs heavier). This should translate into a bit more thermal mass/heatsink capability, but it's significance isn't likely to be very high. If you look inside the end tanks of both units you'll see that ATM has rounded header bars (just like on the front of both units) on the inside as well to smooth the flow going into the fin packs. That plus the less restrictive fin pack is what made the noticeable difference in lag to me with the N47, single-turbo setup. I was quite surprised at the ATM vs Wagner results when I reviewed the data. I realized after that, that the whole "tube & fin recovers significantly faster" was just marketing speak. It may be true for coolers of the exact same dimensions (haven't seen data on that), but like you mentioned, other bar and plate designs on the market may have features that negate that over the Evo 2 Comp. The ATM and CSF will fit your N57. Evolve tuning put a CSF in a 435d. I also saw on FB that ATM is having a "tax return sale" April 15-30th. 15% off with code "APRIL2019." |
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04-09-2019, 12:50 PM | #33 | |||
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I'd already watched the Evolve video of the 435d + CSF. It's a shame that they didn't run all the options, including remap + stock IC, as that would have completed the picture. What we can't see is how much of the result of the stage 1 map is purely down to the map and how much I due to the CSF IC's ability to support the full benefit of that remap. Interesting to see the different design and approach of the ER IC : 'monobloc' (no step) and mounted much further forwards than other units. Also, their IAT graph is impressive ! Quite expensive though, especially for the fill kit including hard pipes. If anyone here has direct experience of ER ICs I'd be interested to hear.
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07-21-2020, 12:23 PM | #34 |
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I'm getting ready to upgrade my 15 335xi to FBO and the MHD Stage 2+ tune, and doing the inevitable research into which FMIC to go with (for me). Like johnung's comment in this old thread, it's my daily driver and will never be tracked, so it will be starting from 0 most of its time (I"m at sea level in the Mid-Atlantic). I know with the tune the lag might not be that noticeable unless I'm looking for it, but filtering my selection on the side of minimizing turbo lag as much as possible for my kind of driving seems like a winner. I'd been zeroing in on the Wagner Competition Evo 2 (and Mike suggested it to me, too), but I wonder (as Johnung mentions above) if I'd be better off with the EVO 1 if it's never going to see a track?
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07-21-2020, 04:35 PM | #35 | |
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I have not noticed any heat soak. I know what to look for. Before I installed the Wagner Competition EVO1, I could definitely induce heat soak. I would do successive standing start wide open throttle runs until I noticed the engine get sluggish. On a cold day it might take 5-6 runs. On a hot day maybe 3-4 runs. Obviously, it requires logs to tell for sure. Heat soak should show up as ignition timing corrections and throttle cuts. On the other end of things, turbo lag would show up as intake pressure drops. Pressure drop causes a delay (turbo lag) until turbo boost builds back up. My car is due for maintenance items over the next couple of weeks. After that, I intend to take a bunch of logs and possibly some dyno runs. Then I may have a better answer for you along with actual data concerning the Wagner Competition EVO1. If the temperatures remain this hot it would definitely be a strenuous test to attempt to induce heat soak. Modding the N55 EWG without changing the turbo is supposed to max out at roughly 400hp-425hp. So it's a matter of choosing a larger FMIC that can effectively cool and flow that new larger amount of air. An advantage of the Wagner Competition series is that they share the same quick flow, tube & fin technology as used by BMW in the F3x stock intercooler. Quicker flow across the intercooler helps to prevent intake pressure drop which causes turbo lag. With the smaller Wagner Competition EVO1, turbo lag should not be an issue. The question is whether a heavily modded N55 EWG with stock turbo can induce heat soak? With the larger Wagner Competition EVO2, heat soak should not be an issue. The question is whether that larger size causes slower flow and does it cause more turbo lag? Remember that there is considerable overlap between the EVO1 and EVO2. Who knows? Maybe it could also be that they both handle this horsepower level without heat soak or turbo lag. If that turned out to be the case, then the current $210 price differential would be more of an insurance policy to have excess capacity in case of an exotic fueling upgrade or a turbo upgrade. |
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07-21-2020, 04:45 PM | #36 | |
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07-21-2020, 05:03 PM | #37 | ||
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If I suddenly decided to upgrade my stock turbo I would also buy a Wagner Competition EVO2, and then sell my Wagner Competition EVO1. Good luck! |
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07-24-2020, 09:20 AM | #38 | ||
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These results are as black and white as they get, don't give Wagner extra $$$ because of marketing. There are more than enough reviews on this forum (including in this thread) that detail 90% of people don't experience any type of turbo lag regardless of what IC they get. The Evo 1 can't even make a multi gear pull before maxing out its thermal capacity, and is less suited for track duty than the already poor performing Evo 2. Quote:
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Last edited by AmuroRay; 07-24-2020 at 09:34 AM.. |
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