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      01-04-2019, 03:16 PM   #1
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Autowatch Ghost - Bad news/Good news.

There's been plenty of discussion regarding the pros & cons of this device, but the main issue that people seemed to have, was how it could potentially cause warranty issues if BMW knew it was fitted.

As has been discussed previously, there's a service/valet mode for when it goes into the dealer. It has generally been understood that service mode will automatically exit when the car is driven above 30mph for a continuous period of either 3 or 15 mins (firmware dependent). If this happens, the Ghost will exit service mode, and require the PIN entry at next start.

I don't personally think 3 mins is really long enough, but I think 15 mins is actually reasonable. It's unlikely a dealer test drive is going to exceed 30mph for a continuous period of 15 mins. You would need a decent stretch of road with no junctions, traffic lights or roundabouts to achieve this.

Bad news time. I decided to actually test service mode before a dealer visit, and it doesn't function as described.

I noted the time when I hit 30mph, and did a bit of mixed driving, and regularly dropped below 30 (in theory resetting the timer). 15 mins after initially exceeding 30, I got all sorts of warnings going off. My iDrive screen flashed up with something about the protection system being disabled. I had a similar message in the dash, and the internal gong was banging away. It certainly made its presence known. I had to press the iDrive controller to acknowledge the warning, but the gong was still going off. Pressing the traction control button shut the gong down, but it may stop itself after a timeout period. I can imagine the dealer being thoroughly impressed with this.

I've done some more research, and also discussed with Autowatch, and it turns out the 'continuous period of 3 or 15 mins' is actually incorrect. The timer starts at 50 kph (31mph), and will only reset if the car is completely stationary for over 3 mins. They seemed to think this was fine, and hadn't heard of any issues.

Now for the good news. I've found a way to completely disable the Ghost, which IMHO is what service mode should do. It's actually described as 'Transport Mode', and you'll need to enter the emergency code from the plastic security card that came with your Ghost to enable it, so it's still very secure.

Transport mode:

The transport mode is used to temporarily switch off the Ghost, and in comparison to the Service mode it can only be deactivated by entering the PIN code.

This mode should be used when you do not want the security functions of the Ghost system to start automatically. This mode will not be deactivated automatically when the speed reaches 31 mph for 3 or 15 mins.

In order to activate the transport mode you need the plastic security card with an emergency code, hidden under a protective layer.

1. Switch on the ignition without starting the engine.

2. Press the brake pedal and while keeping it pressed press the accelerator pedal a certain number of times as far as it can go where the number is equal to the first digit of the emergency code. Release the brake pedal. The first digit of the code will be entered.

3. Input the remaining digits of the emergency code in the same way (see item 2).

If the emergency code is correct, the device will pass into the PIN code change mode and will give out indication signal every 3 seconds. Press the service button 5 times. The interval shall not be more than 2 seconds. The activation of the Transport mode will be confirmed by 5 indication signals.

To exit Transport mode, enter the PIN code, and the indication signal will flash twice to confirm.

I've tested this, and it works as described, so should be perfect for dealer visits. You obviously have zero protection from the Ghost while in Transport mode. It's a bit more of a faff to use than service mode, but for the odd occasion you need to visit the dealer, it's not such an issue.

Hopefully this will help some folks
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      01-04-2019, 03:23 PM   #2
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Thanks for the comprehensive overview. It was one of the things in the back of my mind that I thought may be a issue, so good to see there is a solution.

I suppose I had actually better get around to actually getting it fitted!
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      01-04-2019, 03:39 PM   #3
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No way I'm completely disabling the Ghost when leaving my car at the dealer's.

I make them well aware of the Ghost, the limitations in Valet mode (and the consequences if they get it wrong, i.e. having to low loader recover it if it immobilises), and it's never been a problem in terms of warranty implications. I make it very clear : "if the car exceeds 31mph the game mobilised will arm". A white lie, but it serves a purpose.

As someone with a heavily performance modified car I'm very happy to know that any road tests that the dealer does are likely limited to 31mph.
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      01-04-2019, 03:55 PM   #4
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I suppose it depends on what it's in for. If it's for straight forward service then service mode will be sufficient, but if it's an issue requiring a proper road test then transport mode would make sense.
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      01-04-2019, 04:31 PM   #5
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I was thinking of getting the Ampire Wfs400, similar to the Ghost but a lot cheaper. That appears to have a service mode which lets you deactivate it before going to the dealer and then stays deactivated until you re-enable it upon collecting the car.
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      01-04-2019, 09:56 PM   #6
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Bad: cut any wire on the Ghost and it won't work. Consider it a safety feature if a wire was ever frayed with or without intent. They should set this to 'lock down' and enter PIN but it's hard to implement due to the installation. It's still not a bad product for the price bracket. As they say if someone wants the car that bad they will find a way of taking it.
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      01-05-2019, 02:36 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsey View Post
No way I'm completely disabling the Ghost when leaving my car at the dealer's.

I make them well aware of the Ghost, the limitations in Valet mode (and the consequences if they get it wrong, i.e. having to low loader recover it if it immobilises), and it's never been a problem in terms of warranty implications. I make it very clear : "if the car exceeds 31mph the game mobilised will arm". A white lie, but it serves a purpose.

As someone with a heavily performance modified car I'm very happy to know that any road tests that the dealer does are likely limited to 31mph.
I'm with you on this one. Car has gone into BMW a number of times with the Ghost, when I had the MPPSk fitted I said "if you go over 31 mph" the car won't start again once you stop.
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      01-05-2019, 03:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelsea_Tractor View Post
Bad: cut any wire on the Ghost and it won't work. Consider it a safety feature if a wire was ever frayed with or without intent. They should set this to 'lock down' and enter PIN but it's hard to implement due to the installation. It's still not a bad product for the price bracket. As they say if someone wants the car that bad they will find a way of taking it.
You have to accept that this sort of device can be disabled very easily once found, so a stealth install is necessary. Most security devices can be disabled once found.
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      01-05-2019, 05:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bishbosh View Post
I was thinking of getting the Ampire Wfs400, similar to the Ghost but a lot cheaper. That appears to have a service mode which lets you deactivate it before going to the dealer and then stays deactivated until you re-enable it upon collecting the car.
Anyone else fitted one of these? Quite cheap compared to a Ghost.
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      01-05-2019, 06:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian332isport View Post
You have to accept that this sort of device can be disabled very easily once found, so a stealth install is necessary. Most security devices can be disabled once found.
The important bit is making it an invisible installation. The Ghost is very small, can easily be hidden using cloth automotive wring loom tape, and can be placed anywhere in the CANBbus network in the car.
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      01-05-2019, 07:01 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian332isport View Post
You have to accept that this sort of device can be disabled very easily once found, so a stealth install is necessary. Most security devices can be disabled once found.
Disabled easily once found, but not found easily if installed well.
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      01-07-2019, 12:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian332isport View Post
I've done some more research, and also discussed with Autowatch, and it turns out the 'continuous period of 3 or 15 mins' is actually incorrect. The timer starts at 50 kph (31mph), and will only reset if the car is completely stationary for over 3 mins. They seemed to think this was fine, and hadn't heard of any issues.
To me that makes sense. If a thief stole your car then, especially in a city, they'd be many, many miles away before they triggered the system. Everytime they came to a set of traffic lights or a bit of traffic, the counter would reset using your expected method, only triggering when they finally got onto a motorway and 60mph+ for 15 minutes is quite the distance! Then you're relying on them stopping at some point, at which the car is long gone.
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      01-07-2019, 12:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidfox View Post
To me that makes sense. If a thief stole your car then, especially in a city, they'd be many, many miles away before they triggered the system. Everytime they came to a set of traffic lights or a bit of traffic, the counter would reset using your expected method, only triggering when they finally got onto a motorway and 60mph+ for 15 minutes is quite the distance! Then you're relying on them stopping at some point, at which the car is long gone.
That only applies if the car is stolen while already in service mode though. I don't know the stats for cars being stolen from the dealer workshop, but suspect it's quite low
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      01-07-2019, 01:52 PM   #14
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Thanks for the info. I haven't got it on my BM but have it on my Focus RS and always wondered how to disable it for service time.
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      01-08-2019, 04:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveChester View Post
Anyone else fitted one of these? Quite cheap compared to a Ghost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bishbosh View Post
I was thinking of getting the Ampire Wfs400, similar to the Ghost but a lot cheaper. That appears to have a service mode which lets you deactivate it before going to the dealer and then stays deactivated until you re-enable it upon collecting the car.
Anyone found out anymore about these, or found out anyone who fits them? 150 Euros is a very amenable price!
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      01-08-2019, 04:32 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengocity View Post
Anyone found out anymore about these, or found out anyone who fits them? 150 Euros is a very amenable price!
Looking at the site, they recommend professional installation, but provide installation plans, so guess you can do it yourself.
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      01-08-2019, 05:54 AM   #17
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Good review, but as with many, if I have Ghost, I would make the dealer aware of it just put it in service mode. Hope to get it installed later this year.

As for the cheaper alternative, I guess there are many arguments.
To me personally, Autowatch is a big company with a good reputation. Ghost has good reviews. I would hope if something went wrong, you will get good customer service from Autowatch.
I would also hope they have done extensive testing to prove out components. (Vibration, ageing, heat etc...) With good electrical components used.

Not saying the other company does not offer the same. But its always a risk.

I dont think the £400 is bad for an install, and would rather pay that for piece of mind than spend £150 on a much lesser known piece of kit and have to either install self (Not everyone would feel comfortable with this), or pay someone ££ to install by which point it may no longer be that much cheaper.
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      01-09-2019, 07:17 AM   #18
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When I went in to get the MPPSK fitted, I gave them a copy of the service mode page from the booklet.

They only drove it from the parking space to the bay and then back again as they were scared it would conk out on the test drive.
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      01-09-2019, 08:28 AM   #19
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Why not change the code to something really simple in the car park before you hand over the keys and then tell them 'it has an immobiliser on it, use this code to disarm it'.

That way they don't know your code and won't get into trouble with it arming itself.
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      01-09-2019, 08:38 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daftasabrush View Post
Why not change the code to something really simple in the car park before you hand over the keys and then tell them 'it has an immobiliser on it, use this code to disarm it'.

That way they don't know your code and won't get into trouble with it arming itself.
Its a pain to change, and I'm sure its the same process as a gearbox reset so you may not want it to do that.
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      01-09-2019, 08:56 AM   #21
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Its a pain to change, and I'm sure its the same process as a gearbox reset so you may not want it to do that.
Really? Takes less than a minute on the wife's car.

What's the gearbox reset you speak of?
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      01-09-2019, 09:55 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daftasabrush View Post
Why not change the code to something really simple in the car park before you hand over the keys and then tell them 'it has an immobiliser on it, use this code to disarm it'.

That way they don't know your code and won't get into trouble with it arming itself.
If you read the first paragraph of the OP, you will see that the point being made was that people are trying to avoid the dealer knowing the device is fitted in case it impacts a warranty claim.
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