[Blue55]

I know a lot of you will disagree with me. I don't think the F3x are nearly as good as the old E9x series. Honestly I would never buy one. I had my 1M in for service and i got a 430i loaner car. I thought it was underwheling in so many ways. For a $50K car, I really expected more. I'm a long time BMW owner BTW.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by Blue55

I know a lot of you will disagree with me. I don't think the F3x are nearly as good as the old E9x series. Honestly I would never buy one. I had my 1M in for service and i got a 430i loaner car. I thought it was mediocre in so many ways. For a $50K car, I really expected so much more. I'm a long time BMW owner BTW.

I made a video on my thoughts. I know y'all gonna roast me, but that's fine. I really think BMW has lot their way lately and that's a huge part of the declining sales.

Video below:

Old News. Many believe E Series including M3 was much better.

As for loss of sales, everyone knows it’s because consumers have shifted back towards SUVs with cheap gas and BMWs offerings are challenged.

And you don’t own a F3x....but posting in F3x forum for......page views for your video?

Got it.

It appears most of your posts are to hype or promote your YouTube channel.

Best response for others is to ignore and not click on video.

[donkey]

They've lost some magic. The trick is to option it right.

IMO that means -

- F30 variant (lightest)
- RWD
- M Sport suspension
- 6 cylinder (comes with upgraded brakes and you can upgrade them further from there)
- 6MT

Steering is the one thing that can't really be corrected. Other brands are doing electric steering much better.

That said, if I could do it all again, I probably wouldn't go BMW or would at least go with an older BMW (from a bang for the buck perspective).

[bimmer456]

Sport+ mode and the above.

[Blue55]

Originally Posted by donkey

They've lost some magic. The trick is to option it right.

IMO that means -

- F30 variant (lightest)
- RWD
- M Sport suspension
- 6 cylinder (comes with upgraded brakes and you can upgrade them further from there)
- 6MT

Steering is the one thing that can't really be corrected. Other brands are doing electric steering much better.

That said, if I could do it all again, I probably wouldn't go BMW or would at least go with an older BMW (from a bang for the buck perspective).

I've driven the M Sport suspension and while it's better, shouldn't it be standard on a $50K car? I strongly considered a F3x for my daily, but I ended up with Audi instead. Better suspension, interior, tech, ride etc. I still prefer the inline 6 engine to the Audi 4 banger, but overall Audi is more of a win for me.

[donkey]

Originally Posted by Blue55

I've driven the M Sport suspension and while it's better, shouldn't it be standard on a $50K car? I strongly considered a F3x for my daily, but I ended up with Audi instead. Better suspension, interior, tech, ride etc. I still prefer the inline 6 engine to the Audi 4 banger, but overall Audi is more of a win for me.

By that logic the GTI is the ultimate win for the money (it is, I have one).

[Blue55]

Originally Posted by donkey

By that logic the GTI is the ultimate win for the money (it is, I have one).

I can't disagree at all.

[7iM3less]

Originally Posted by donkey

By that logic the GTI is the ultimate win for the money (it is, I have one).

Yeah but isn't the GTI in a different class altogether? I don't think you can compare it and the F30. Honestly I'm the owner of both too.

Performance wise it's one thing but aesthetically the F30 M line knocks any E series out of the park....

[donkey]

Originally Posted by KC328_F30

Yeah but isn't the GTI in a different class altogether? I don't think you can compare it and the F30. Honestly I'm the owner of both too..

You're right, you shouldn't compare them, but I do. And I've seen several others do the same (didn't someone on these forums go from a F80 M3 to a MK7 GTI?).

I think the GTI is closer to what old BMW was than new BMW is now. And it's half the price.

[bimmer456]

Isn't the GTI front wheel drive hatchback? It compares more to a civic type r or the focus ST

[tuco44]

The old BMWs were better, yadda, yadda, yadda. We have heard this a million times now, and it gets tiresome. My old 2002's were better than a lot of cars today, but the world has moved on. BMW is selling more cars than ever, just not to enthusiasts which comprise about 2% or so of the driving public.

Move on, get over it, get an older car if you will and STFU. It's boring.

[XutvJet]

I disagree with much of what you said and it's clear your goal with making a video titled "Why new BMWs suck" is clearly designed as click-bait and to get views. We know the game.

I'm far from a BMW nutswinger but let's put some things into perspective shall we? You own a 1M and a track focused E9X. You clearly like a more raw and less refined BMW. News flash, your 1M sold for mid $50Ks back when new and that generation 1 series has a pretty "cheap" interior, even by the standards back then. Your 1M is barely quicker, faster, and better performing than a M235/240 (BMW's own tests had the M235 outrunning the 1M on the Ring) and the 1M gets it's clocked cleaned by the M2. All of these cars are cheaper to buy new now that what your 1M cost back in the day. They've also got way more features, comfort, safety, and quality. That's an apples to apples comparison.

While I agree BMWs today generally have a lack of steering feel, you really should drive a M235/240 or M2. It's far from bad and not light years behind the old hydraulic racks. I don't find it a problem at all with my M235. My issue with my car is the lack of tire width in the front. I've got all the feel I need to know what the tires are doing.

Your video uses an expensive convertible 4 series to form your opinion which seems largely focused on the price of the car. If you're going to constantly compare against a car like a Camry then at least use a 3 series for which a well optioned 330 can be obtained for mid-40s or about $6-8K more than a loaded Camry V6. FYI, a convertible 4 series starts out nearly $10K more than a 3 series.

With respect to interior quality, remember, the SAME interior is found on MUCH cheaper 3 and 4 series cars. It's also found in the FAR MORE EXPENSIVE M3 and M4.

I'm not sure what other cars you're driving, but I rent a ton of cars for work and can say without a doubt, the overall interior quality of my M235 is much better than the domestic, Japanese, and Korean makes I rent. The same can be said for the 3 and 4 series as since the 2 through 4 series share many interior parts. When I think quality, I'm talking about the overall design and presentation, soft touch materials, plastic durability and construction, tactile feel, general feel of being substantial, and fitment/gaps.

Put a current gen 3 series on a lift and pop the hood and do the same with a current gen Camry. Take note of the overall robustness of the steering system, suspension pieces, engine block reinforcements, door hinges, etc. on the 3 series compared to the Camry. This is where a lot of your money is going.

Lastly, regarding performance. A BMW 330i ($46K MSRP) does 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, a 14.2@99mph, 60-0 in 123 feet (on all season runflats), and a figure 8 in 26.1 sec @ 0.71 g.

A current gen Camry V6 ($39K MSRP) in 5.8 seconds, a 14.3@99mph, 60-0 in 123 feet (on summer tires), and a figure 8 in 26.7 sec @ 0.66 g.

Put an M Performance equipped 340 into the mix and it's not even the same ball game.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I disagree with much of what you said and it's clear your goal with making a video titled "Why new BMWs suck" is clearly designed as click-bait and to get views. We know the game.

I'm far from a BMW nutswinger but let's put some things into perspective shall we? You own a 1M and a track focused E9X. You clearly like a more raw and less refined BMW. News flash, your 1M sold for mid $50Ks back when new and that generation 1 series has a pretty "cheap" interior, even by the standards back then. Your 1M is barely quicker, faster, and better performing than a M235/240 (BMW's own tests had the M235 outrunning the 1M on the Ring) and the 1M gets it's clocked cleaned by the M2. All of these cars are cheaper to buy new now that what your 1M cost back in the day. They've also got way more features, comfort, safety, and quality. That's an apples to apples comparison.

While I agree BMWs today generally have a lack of steering feel, you really should drive a M235/240 or M2. It's far from bad and not light years behind the old hydraulic racks. I don't find it a problem at all with my M235. My issue with my car is the lack of tire width in the front. I've got all the feel I need to know what the tires are doing.

Your video uses an expensive convertible 4 series to form your opinion which seems largely focused on the price of the car. If you're going to constantly compare against a car like a Camry then at least use a 3 series for which a well optioned 330 can be obtained for mid-40s or about $6-8K more than a loaded Camry V6. FYI, a convertible 4 series starts out nearly $10K more than a 3 series.

With respect to interior quality, remember, the SAME interior is found on MUCH cheaper 3 and 4 series cars. It's also found in the FAR MORE EXPENSIVE M3 and M4.

I'm not sure what other cars you're driving, but I rent a ton of cars for work and can say without a doubt, the overall interior quality of my M235 is much better than the domestic, Japanese, and Korean makes I rent. The same can be said for the 3 and 4 series as since the 2 through 4 series share many interior parts. When I think quality, I'm talking about the overall design and presentation, soft touch materials, plastic durability and construction, tactile feel, general feel of being substantial, and fitment/gaps.

Put a current gen 3 series on a lift and pop the hood and do the same with a current gen Camry. Take note of the overall robustness of the steering system, suspension pieces, engine block reinforcements, door hinges, etc. on the 3 series compared to the Camry. This is where a lot of your money is going.

Lastly, regarding performance. A BMW 330i ($46K MSRP) does 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, a 14.2@99mph, 60-0 in 123 feet (on all season runflats), and a figure 8 in 26.1 sec @ 0.71 g.

A current gen Camry V6 ($39K MSRP) in 5.8 seconds, a 14.3@99mph, 60-0 in 123 feet (on summer tires), and a figure 8 in 26.7 sec @ 0.66 g.

Put an M Performance equipped 340 into the mix and it's not even the same ball game.

The camry and bimmer are very close in price and so the difference in performance though small is justifiable. Personally would prefer the bimmer because it's cooler and still faster. The camry is more comparable to a 5 series size wise and is less of a driver's car, though the new SE trim with the quad exhaust and the interior aren't bad for what it is. Still, it's front wheel drive and nose heavy.

[anotheran]

Only well known car reviewer that likes the F3x based F80 M3 steering more than the E92 M3 that i know is Chris Harris:

not sure if that translates to the F3x vs E9x so take that as you want.

The F3x competes well at the $40K range but over that, it starts to get hard to justify. Basically explains why so many ppl have been leasing or buying used.

[CalCarNut]

He lost me when he says it's powered by an N20. Never seen a convertible Camry...why the comparo? smh.

I agree with another poster...all to get hits on his channel. I'd like to take my viewing back now. Waste of time. If I wanted an uninteresting/uniformed opinion on BMW Fxx, I would have asked my 2yr old pit bull for his...

[Blue55]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

While I agree BMWs today generally have a lack of steering feel, you really should drive a M235/240 or M2. It's far from bad and not light years behind the old hydraulic racks. I don't find it a problem at all with my M235. My issue with my car is the lack of tire width in the front. I've got all the feel I need to know what the tires are doing.

Your video uses an expensive convertible 4 series to form your opinion which seems largely focused on the price of the car. If you're going to constantly compare against a car like a Camry then at least use a 3 series for which a well optioned 330 can be obtained for mid-40s or about $6-8K more than a loaded Camry V6. FYI, a convertible 4 series starts out nearly $10K more than a 3 series.

With respect to interior quality, remember, the SAME interior is found on MUCH cheaper 3 and 4 series cars. It's also found in the FAR MORE EXPENSIVE M3 and M4.

I'm not sure what other cars you're driving, but I rent a ton of cars for work and can say without a doubt, the overall interior quality of my M235 is much better than the domestic, Japanese, and Korean makes I rent. The same can be said for the 3 and 4 series as since the 2 through 4 series share many interior parts. When I think quality, I'm talking about the overall design and presentation, soft touch materials, plastic durability and construction, tactile feel, general feel of being substantial, and fitment/gaps.

Put a current gen 3 series on a lift and pop the hood and do the same with a current gen Camry. Take note of the overall robustness of the steering system, suspension pieces, engine block reinforcements, door hinges, etc. on the 3 series compared to the Camry. This is where a lot of your money is going.

Lastly, regarding performance. A BMW 330i ($46K MSRP) does 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, a 14.2@99mph, 60-0 in 123 feet (on all season runflats), and a figure 8 in 26.1 sec @ 0.71 g.

A current gen Camry V6 ($39K MSRP) in 5.8 seconds, a 14.3@99mph, 60-0 in 123 feet (on summer tires), and a figure 8 in 26.7 sec @ 0.66 g.

Put an M Performance equipped 340 into the mix and it's not even the same ball game.

Anything to defend BMW, right? Exactly where did I compare the car to any other car? I'm certainly not comparing it to my 1M or the Camry you mentioned.

I'd compare it to the A4 and the C Class. It's not nearly as cohesive or enjoyable to drive as those cars. And yes - price is incredibly relevant. The A4 and lower end C class are squarely in the same price bracket. Far better ride, handling and interior in those cars.

[Kingpin4]

AUDI

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

The camry and bimmer are very close in price and so the difference in performance though small is justifiable. Personally would prefer the bimmer because it's cooler and still faster. The camry is more comparable to a 5 series size wise and is less of a driver's car, though the new SE trim with the quad exhaust and the interior aren't bad for what it is. Still, it's front wheel drive and nose heavy.

Look at the tires in the test. That's his point. The Bmw is riding crappy all seasons.

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by donkey

They've lost some magic. The trick is to option it right.

IMO that means -

- F30 variant (lightest)
- RWD
- M Sport suspension
- 6 cylinder (comes with upgraded brakes and you can upgrade them further from there)
- 6MT

Steering is the one thing that can't really be corrected. Other brands are doing electric steering much better.

That said, if I could do it all again, I probably wouldn't go BMW or would at least go with an older BMW (from a bang for the buck perspective).

This!!

I had a F32. I now own a F30. My 335 handles better than my 435 probably because of weight. Also the option thing is the big deal. BMW went wrong on making you pay for the M Performance stuff that used to be baked into the cars like my old 335 E92. You get the track pack with the M brakes, and better tires... You get a car that feels like a BMW.

[Kafkaesque328]

yawn

OP is about 6 years late to the party with his opinions. Good thing there are like thousands of used E90's on Craigslist that can be bought for pennies on the dollar at this point. You can have the punishing ride of the sport package, the slew of reliability issues, the brick-like 'communicative steering' and the 1980's cold war infotainment and 'tech' but I'd take the F30 as a daily driver any day of the week.

You and like 10 dudes in the Car and Driver editorial department totally agree with you and you can all hang out around the water cooler and talk about how great the Cadillac ATS was too. You know, the '3 series killer' that basically no one bought.

[Calvin36]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I disagree with much of what you said and it's clear your goal with making a video titled "Why new BMWs suck" is clearly designed as click-bait and to get views. We know the game.

I'm far from a BMW nutswinger but let's put some things into perspective shall we? You own a 1M and a track focused E9X. You clearly like a more raw and less refined BMW. News flash, your 1M sold for mid $50Ks back when new and that generation 1 series has a pretty "cheap" interior, even by the standards back then. Your 1M is barely quicker, faster, and better performing than a M235/240 (BMW's own tests had the M235 outrunning the 1M on the Ring) and the 1M gets it's clocked cleaned by the M2. All of these cars are cheaper to buy new now that what your 1M cost back in the day. They've also got way more features, comfort, safety, and quality. That's an apples to apples comparison.

While I agree BMWs today generally have a lack of steering feel, you really should drive a M235/240 or M2. It's far from bad and not light years behind the old hydraulic racks. I don't find it a problem at all with my M235. My issue with my car is the lack of tire width in the front. I've got all the feel I need to know what the tires are doing.

Your video uses an expensive convertible 4 series to form your opinion which seems largely focused on the price of the car. If you're going to constantly compare against a car like a Camry then at least use a 3 series for which a well optioned 330 can be obtained for mid-40s or about $6-8K more than a loaded Camry V6. FYI, a convertible 4 series starts out nearly $10K more than a 3 series.

With respect to interior quality, remember, the SAME interior is found on MUCH cheaper 3 and 4 series cars. It's also found in the FAR MORE EXPENSIVE M3 and M4.

I'm not sure what other cars you're driving, but I rent a ton of cars for work and can say without a doubt, the overall interior quality of my M235 is much better than the domestic, Japanese, and Korean makes I rent. The same can be said for the 3 and 4 series as since the 2 through 4 series share many interior parts. When I think quality, I'm talking about the overall design and presentation, soft touch materials, plastic durability and construction, tactile feel, general feel of being substantial, and fitment/gaps.

Put a current gen 3 series on a lift and pop the hood and do the same with a current gen Camry. Take note of the overall robustness of the steering system, suspension pieces, engine block reinforcements, door hinges, etc. on the 3 series compared to the Camry. This is where a lot of your money is going.

Lastly, regarding performance. A BMW 330i ($46K MSRP) does 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, a 14.2@99mph, 60-0 in 123 feet (on all season runflats), and a figure 8 in 26.1 sec @ 0.71 g.

A current gen Camry V6 ($39K MSRP) in 5.8 seconds, a 14.3@99mph, 60-0 in 123 feet (on summer tires), and a figure 8 in 26.7 sec @ 0.66 g.

Put an M Performance equipped 340 into the mix and it's not even the same ball game.

Spot on.

Tough to make an opinion on a rental when you've only had it for a short time.

[jmg]

First of all, wrong engine. Second of all, how can you complain about the interior when BMW interiors almost always were sub-par. I remember my '79 320i. It wasn't good then and it isn't good now. From an aesthetic and design perspective, the F30 is an improvement over the E9X. And no, your loaner isn't going to have all the bells and whistles and I've been disappointed with almost all my loaners interiors as well because it isn't MINE. Yes, cognitive bias is real. Is this the same car as the E90 and E30? Of course not. Those were smaller and in most cases slower. $50k doesn't get you what it did in the 90's and 00's and let's not forget that the OP was driving the vert. That extra $ is going towards the drop top, not interior trim. A 430i non-vert isn't going to cost $50k.

Let's fist admit that the purpose of the 3 series wasn't what it was 10 years ago. Without the upgraded M Performance components that the OP says came with every E90, the goal isn't a "sporty" sedan anymore. It's an entry level luxury sedan. Think of it as a way to sell the same car with downgraded components to hit a certain price point for the masses. M Sport and M Performance parts are now add-ons that most people don't care about. One could argue that this waters down the brand, but that's another discussion. Bottom line is that you can't compare a base 430i to a base E90 because they aren't equipped to fill the same role.