[mcsweeto]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

ARM's customer support is top-notch. Any time we reach out for help, they take care of it asap! No excuses, no BS

Again, never a doubt. That's a good partnership you've got and I appreciate the top-notch service.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by mcsweeto

No, I should be fine mating my existing BMS charge pipe and the stock TIC. I'm an xdrive and I'm not volunteering to do too much work close to the turbo. I'll see how things go and maybe have a shop do the BOV and TIC, unless one of you fine sirs wants to come to NC to help out with those.

Tomorrow the FMIC goes in as does a VRSF catted in place of an existing VRSF catless. I logged 4 successive 3rd gear pulls this morning and will do a before an after when things are settled, although it was a cool morning and I don't think I got IATs above 100.

Installed an inlet if you are going to do DV/TIC

[mcsweeto]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Installed an inlet if you are going to do DV/TIC

Intake inlet, TIC, BOV... all 3 turbo touch points?

[mcsweeto]

Would someone mind looking at this log to see if anything stands out? Although it seems kind of obvious, what's the relationship with boost target to boost? Why is there a gap in the two when I punch it, is that turbo lag demonstrated with data?

https://datazap.me/u/mcsweeto/pre-fm...og=0&data=3-16

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by mcsweeto

Would someone mind looking at this log to see if anything stands out? Although it seems kind of obvious, what's the relationship with boost target to boost? Why is there a gap in the two when I punch it, is that turbo lag demonstrated with data?

https://datazap.me/u/mcsweeto/pre-fm...og=0&data=3-16

Target boost is what the ECU is trying to achieve, boost is your actual boost.

it takes 500 RPM (2000 - 2500 RPM) for your boost to reach the target, that's normal since your turbo needs time to spool.

[AmuroRay]

Mike is correct, that's normal. How does the car feel?

[mcsweeto]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Mike is correct, that's normal. How does the car feel?

Feels good, pulls strong. I had posted in another thread a few months back I felt like timing was being pulled in 5th while stepping on it to pass. That was during the heat of summer and I didn't have a chance to log then. I haven't noticed it since so maybe it was just IATs.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by mcsweeto

Intake inlet, TIC, BOV... all 3 turbo touch points?

Correct, all on the front of the turbo.

Originally Posted by mcsweeto

Would someone mind looking at this log to see if anything stands out? Although it seems kind of obvious, what's the relationship with boost target to boost? Why is there a gap in the two when I punch it, is that turbo lag demonstrated with data?

https://datazap.me/u/mcsweeto/pre-fm...og=0&data=3-16

Your link didnt take me to a specific log, but i recommend you read my thread on datalogging. Looks like you also need to go into the logging parameters and enable manifold boost (and anything else that's missing).

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1732327

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Correct, all on the front of the turbo.



Your link didnt take me to a specific log, but i recommend you read my thread on datalogging. Looks like you also need to go into the logging parameters and enable manifold boost (and anything else that's missing).

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1732327

This - I reviewed the logs, but on the first few, you let off the throttle at about 4000RPM and it steadily decreased as you revved it out more.

[AmuroRay]

OP, did you Intercooler have a way to mount the fan shroud?

grocerylist has been having issues with his installation:

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...1850989&page=3

[mcsweeto]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

OP, did you Intercooler have a way to mount the fan shroud?

grocerylist has been having issues with his installation:

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...1850989&page=3

No, the IC mounted a few inches ahead of the shroud so there was no issue of reattaching.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by mcsweeto

No, the IC mounted a few inches ahead of the shroud so there was no issue of reattaching.

Wait what the heck - this isnt right. The fan is supposed to be attached to the IC. The fan is going to be significantly less effective when there's a huge air gap between the fan and IC not to mention it going to put a lot of stress on the other mounting points

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

OP, did you Intercooler have a way to mount the fan shroud?

grocerylist has been having issues with his installation:

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...1850989&page=3

I just read through that thread... the ARM isnt bigger than the VRSF race, right? I was able to retain all factory ducting and shrouds. It certainly wasnt easy, but its doable.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I just read through that thread... the ARM isnt bigger than the VRSF race, right? I was able to retain all factory ducting and shrouds. It certainly wasnt easy, but its doable.

The ARM is as tall as the Race, but it doesn't have the depth. It's basically just the step portion forward.

Is it less effective because the bottom portion isn't hook up? I don't think so - the stock IC is 5" high and only connects to the bottom portion of the radiator. So the even if it were stepped, there would still be distance between the two on the top half of the fan.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

The ARM is as tall as the Race, but it doesn't have the depth. It's basically just the step portion forward.

Is it less effective because the bottom portion isn't hook up? I don't think so - the stock IC is 5" high and only connects to the bottom portion of the radiator. So the even if it were stepped, there would still be distance between the two on the top half of the fan.

Well then you can absolutely keep all of the factory shrouds/ducting with the ARM... I know from installing the race which was likely significantly harder due to the depth that its not easy, but its certainly doable. I could have easily removed pieces to make the install easier but i would have not been able to sleep at night knowing i made one thing worse to upgrade another.

The fan is absolutely less effective when there is a huge air gap infront of it. It's not only about it being closer to the IC, the IC tabs are important to hold the fan up against the other cooling system components (toward the front of the car) that are higher up... The air is going to take the path of least resistance which means not going through the heat exchangers if it can draw air around

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Well then you can absolutely keep all of the factory shrouds/ducting with the ARM... I know from installing the race which was likely significantly harder due to the depth that its not easy, but its certainly doable. I could have easily removed pieces to make the install easier but i would have not been able to sleep at night knowing i made one thing worse to upgrade another.

The fan is absolutely less effective when there is a huge air gap infront of it. It's not only about it being closer to the IC, the IC tabs are important to hold the fan up against the other cooling system components (toward the front of the car) that are higher up... The air is going to take the path of least resistance which means not going through the heat exchangers if it can draw air around

That's why the shrouding is important in general. But I haven't been under the car yet, so I can't say how much space there is between the two, especially on the sides. The idea is to force enough air forward through the IC, the fan would only even be operational in low/slow speed operation.

[mcsweeto]

Install vid:

Not my channel, but please subscribe to it- it belongs my friend Aaron who's an awesome host and fellow German enthusiast. Please go easy on me.

[AmuroRay]

Good video

[XutvJet]

Hear exchanger fans are designed to fit within about 1 inch of exchanger and the fans need shrouding around the fan and heat exchanger to create a pressure differential to work. By having the fan sitting inches away from the radiator and IC makes it basically worthless.

BMW went to great lengths to have duct work forward of the IC and radiator create a pressure effect at speed and have the fan and shrouding tight against the back of the IC and radiator to maximize cooling. This ARM design negates all of that effort.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Hear exchanger fans are designed to fit within about 1 inch of exchanger and the fans need shrouding around the fan and heat exchanger to create a pressure differential to work. By having the fan sitting inches away from the radiator and IC makes it basically worthless.

Yup.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Hear exchanger fans are designed to fit within about 1 inch of exchanger and the fans need shrouding around the fan and heat exchanger to create a pressure differential to work. By having the fan sitting inches away from the radiator and IC makes it basically worthless.

The fan is STILL connected to the radiator. The fan does NOT need to be connected to the intercooler core, because the intercooler DOESN’T NEED the fan for cooling.
1. The intercooler has more thermal capacity than stock
2. As I mentioned before, the thicker (more depth) a core has, the less effective that cooling is. The fan is there is help makers the core doesn’t heat soak. The ARM and ER cores don’t utilize this, and typically won’t suffer from this issue.
3. The fan is literally still mounted to the radiator
4. The fan is only running at a standstill or low speeds

Look at these pictures and you can see the fan is still mounted on the back of the radiator with its shroud - oil/coolant temperatures should not be impacted.
The intercooler is larger than stock, it will not see large increases in IAT like the stock intercooler would.

Originally Posted by XutvJet

BMW went to great lengths to have duct work forward of the IC and radiator create a pressure effect at speed and have the fan and shrouding tight against the back of the IC and radiator to maximize cooling. This ARM design negates all of that effort.

BMW also put a crappy small IC on the car. They didn’t design the perfect vehicle or cooling system.

The easier way to tell how much of an impact this has is simply by logging it.
Can anyone show their coolant logs before and after their IC install?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

The fan is STILL connected to the radiator. The fan does NOT need to be connected to the intercooler core, because the intercooler DOESN’T NEED the fan for cooling.
1. The intercooler has more thermal capacity than stock
2. As I mentioned before, the thicker (more depth) a core has, the less effective that cooling is. The fan is there is help makers the core doesn’t heat soak. The ARM and ER cores don’t utilize this, and typically won’t suffer from this issue.
3. The fan is literally still mounted to the radiator
4. The fan is only running at a standstill or low speeds

Look at these pictures and you can see the fan is still mounted on the back of the radiator with its shroud - oil/coolant temperatures should not be impacted.
The intercooler is larger than stock, it will not see large increases in IAT like the stock intercooler would.


BMW also put a crappy small IC on the car. They didn’t design the perfect vehicle or cooling system.

The easier way to tell how much of an impact this has is simply by logging it.
Can anyone show their coolant logs before and after their IC install?

Yeah it is still connected to the radiator up top and not really affecting that but, but i disagree that it doesnt need to be connected to the IC. I mean it defends how you defined "need"... I dont want that gap; i want my IC cooled whenever my fan is running to as close to ambient as possible. Otherwise its just getting heat from behind... Im not saying the ARM with fan gap is worse than stock with fan connected, but the fact that its not optimized because of that space is in itself enough for me to never consider that type of setup. It's just so inefficient. I also wonder how much that fan is flexing and wobbling around without the bottom mounts. It is very easy to move when its not connected to the IC on the bottom, so its not doubt bouncing around constantly while driving and flexing from the fan running/airflow from the front. It's just all around "wong" IMO, quantitative effects on IATs aside.