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      07-30-2020, 11:31 PM   #1
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N55 Pure Stage 1 PWG

Just wanted to create this thread to ask a few question see others responses. I have a 2013 335i xDrive (PWG) that has CP, and Dp. I have come across a deal with a pure stage 1 turbo being offered to me for cheap ($500). Are pure stage 1 turbos worth the money and installation price (Installation being near $1,000)? How much power have your builds gotten with the pure stage 1 turbo? I will be getting a fmic before putting the turbo on. I know pure stage 2 turbo kits are near $2k near the same installation price. Then you have to upgrade the high pressure fuel pump with that turbo. Will I need meth to push over 400-450whp with just stage 1 turbos and fbo? I know xDrive slacks on horsepower compared to Rwd. I really do not want to do meth since this is my daily driver or mess with e30 blends since there are no pumps near me (93 pump for me). Please leave your feedback with your pure stage 1 turbo and how you like it or dislike it?
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      07-30-2020, 11:47 PM   #2
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iirc when comparing the ps1 on a pwg f30 is about a 30-40 whp gain.. also, the install price on a ps1 should be a lot cheaper than ps2.. pure stage 2 you have to remove the ENTIRE turbo/turbofold, remove and engine mount/brace the engine on a jack or other method to secure it and maneuver the turbo out.. the pure stage 1 doesn't need any of that (it's not a whole turbo), I would estimate the install cost being around $800-$1000, ps2 is closer to $1,200-$1,500.. If I could get my hands on a ps1 for $500 I would do it, you might also want to consider getting the MST inlet while ur at it. you still won't see huge gains with ps1, but it will definitley wake up the PWG F30 as a daily driver..
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      07-31-2020, 12:42 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephensF30 View Post
Just wanted to create this thread to ask a few question see others responses. I have a 2013 335i xDrive (PWG) that has CP, and Dp. I have come across a deal with a pure stage 1 turbo being offered to me for cheap ($500). Are pure stage 1 turbos worth the money and installation price (Installation being near $1,000)? How much power have your builds gotten with the pure stage 1 turbo? I will be getting a fmic before putting the turbo on. I know pure stage 2 turbo kits are near $2k near the same installation price. Then you have to upgrade the high pressure fuel pump with that turbo. Will I need meth to push over 400-450whp with just stage 1 turbos and fbo? I know xDrive slacks on horsepower compared to Rwd. I really do not want to do meth since this is my daily driver or mess with e30 blends since there are no pumps near me (93 pump for me). Please leave your feedback with your pure stage 1 turbo and how you like it or dislike it?
You certainly will not make it to 450whp without a HPFP or meth. Turbo upgrade aside, its beyond stock fuel system limit.

IMO paying 1k for the install of a stage 1 is a waste. But thats my opinion. Yes, the turbo is a good deal at 500, but paying that much for labor with a marginal increase in power just doesn't seem cost effective. I think the post above is probably around the ballpark for gains. You will make around the same, maybe a little more, than a EWG with stock turbo. So you might be able to push 400whp, but you might even need a custom tune for that... If you were going to DIY the install, i would say 100% do it.
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      07-31-2020, 08:47 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
You certainly will not make it to 450whp without a HPFP or meth. Turbo upgrade aside, its beyond stock fuel system limit.

IMO paying 1k for the install of a stage 1 is a waste. But thats my opinion. Yes, the turbo is a good deal at 500, but paying that much for labor with a marginal increase in power just doesn't seem cost effective. I think the post above is probably around the ballpark for gains. You will make around the same, maybe a little more, than a EWG with stock turbo. So you might be able to push 400whp, but you might even need a custom tune for that... If you were going to DIY the install, i would say 100% do it.
What is a better option pure stage 1 or Dinan ?
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      07-31-2020, 09:45 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by nickf30n55 View Post
What is a better option pure stage 1 or Dinan ?
Better in terms of power?
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      07-31-2020, 09:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickf30n55 View Post
What is a better option pure stage 1 or Dinan ?
Which dinan? Oma had a thread not too long ago on Dinan stage 2 I believe, and even with HPFP and supporting mods, his gains were not that substantial over a EWG stock turbo, even with Emix and a custom tune. Yes, more power up top, but not worth the price of turbo + install IMO.

All the stage 1 upgrades that only replace half the turbo and not the manifold are just a lot of labor for not alot of gains IMO. Personally, i would save for a full turbo upgrade like PS2 or BB, etc, and 'do it all the way or not at all'.
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      07-31-2020, 10:13 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
You certainly will not make it to 450whp without a HPFP or meth. Turbo upgrade aside, its beyond stock fuel system limit.

IMO paying 1k for the install of a stage 1 is a waste. But thats my opinion. Yes, the turbo is a good deal at 500, but paying that much for labor with a marginal increase in power just doesn't seem cost effective. I think the post above is probably around the ballpark for gains. You will make around the same, maybe a little more, than a EWG with stock turbo. So you might be able to push 400whp, but you might even need a custom tune for that... If you were going to DIY the install, i would say 100% do it.
X2 on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by StephensF30 View Post
Just wanted to create this thread to ask a few question see others responses. I have a 2013 335i xDrive (PWG) that has CP, and Dp. I have come across a deal with a pure stage 1 turbo being offered to me for cheap ($500). Are pure stage 1 turbos worth the money and installation price (Installation being near $1,000)? How much power have your builds gotten with the pure stage 1 turbo? I will be getting a fmic before putting the turbo on. I know pure stage 2 turbo kits are near $2k near the same installation price. Then you have to upgrade the high pressure fuel pump with that turbo. Will I need meth to push over 400-450whp with just stage 1 turbos and fbo? I know xDrive slacks on horsepower compared to Rwd. I really do not want to do meth since this is my daily driver or mess with e30 blends since there are no pumps near me (93 pump for me). Please leave your feedback with your pure stage 1 turbo and how you like it or dislike it?
If you decide to pass up on the deal, let me know as I am interested in that deal!
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      07-31-2020, 11:45 AM   #8
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Unless your doing the install yourself its waste of money IMO. as others have stated you will most likely be around 400AWHP, which is still plenty of fun for daily driving but you'd be better off saving up for a true turbo upgrade.

Just my $.02
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      07-31-2020, 12:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephensF30 View Post
Just wanted to create this thread to ask a few question see others responses. I have a 2013 335i xDrive (PWG) that has CP, and Dp. I have come across a deal with a pure stage 1 turbo being offered to me for cheap ($500). Are pure stage 1 turbos worth the money and installation price (Installation being near $1,000)? How much power have your builds gotten with the pure stage 1 turbo? I will be getting a fmic before putting the turbo on. I know pure stage 2 turbo kits are near $2k near the same installation price. Then you have to upgrade the high pressure fuel pump with that turbo. Will I need meth to push over 400-450whp with just stage 1 turbos and fbo? I know xDrive slacks on horsepower compared to Rwd. I really do not want to do meth since this is my daily driver or mess with e30 blends since there are no pumps near me (93 pump for me). Please leave your feedback with your pure stage 1 turbo and how you like it or dislike it?
Please let me know if you pass on this deal for the turbo, I will take it.
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      07-31-2020, 01:51 PM   #10
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I ended up buying it this morning for $400. Turbo is basically brand new (1300 miles on it), from what I can tell some think its a waste some think its a good deal for the money. This is my daily driver and I still want it to be reliable and do not want to have to deal with finding e85 and buying meth. 400 whp is plenty since most can't even get near that with e30. I won't be installing it myself but I have a couple shops in mind who will give me a good deal ($700-800). I will definitely be getting the gfb diverter valve and upgraded inlet when I get the turbo installed. Custom tune will done as well. Do you think its more worth it to sell this turbo and buy a pure stage 2? and any one running similar setup, how much power are you making?

Last edited by StephensF30; 07-31-2020 at 02:06 PM..
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      07-31-2020, 01:53 PM   #11
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Don't know how to make this picture bigger.
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      07-31-2020, 01:57 PM   #12
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Nice, good find!
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      07-31-2020, 02:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephensF30 View Post
I ended up buying it this morning for $400. Turbo is basically brand new (1300 miles on it), from what I can tell some think its a waste some think its a good deal for the money. This is my daily driver and I still want it to be reliable and do not want to have to deal with finding e85 and buying meth. 400 whp is plenty since most can't even get near that with e30. I won't be installing it myself but I have a couple shops in mind who will give me a good deal ($700-800). I will definitely be getting the gfb diverter valve and upgraded inlet when I get the turbo installed. Custom tune will done as well. Do you think its more worth it to sell this turbo and buy a pure stage 2? and any one running similar setup, how much power are you making?
No doubt the price of the turbo itself is a good deal. If you are only going to run 93, you might just want to try the OTS hybrid turbo maps before you go custom tune to see if you want to do that additional expense as the gains may not be substantial with stock fuel system, etc, compared to OTS hybrid map.

For the DV, you should consider the turbosmart and not just the GFB. It may be isolated incidents, but there is some question/uncertainty about long term reliability of the GFB without servicing it.

For the inlet, i highly recommend MST v2. Just read the aftermarket inlet on stock turbo thread. At the same time, i would do the MPPK airbox mod and get a dry drop in filter if you have not already, but keep stock intake. Oh, and probably plan on replacing the CCV (aka PCV) hose at the same time.

Finally, if you can, it would be informative if you can capture a few (3) 'proper' logs (correct gear, smooth flat road, no bumps, etc) on a road that you can go back to and capture logs again under the same/similar conditions after you get the turbo install. Putting these in virtual dyno will give a nice perspective of the change in peak power and the overall shape of the curve, not to mention looking at the data in the logs themselves for comparison.
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      07-31-2020, 06:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickf30n55 View Post
What is a better option pure stage 1 or Dinan ?
Better in terms of power?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickf30n55 View Post
What is a better option pure stage 1 or Dinan ?
Better in terms of power?
Correct
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      08-01-2020, 04:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
No doubt the price of the turbo itself is a good deal. If you are only going to run 93, you might just want to try the OTS hybrid turbo maps before you go custom tune to see if you want to do that additional expense as the gains may not be substantial with stock fuel system, etc, compared to OTS hybrid map.

For the DV, you should consider the turbosmart and not just the GFB. It may be isolated incidents, but there is some question/uncertainty about long term reliability of the GFB without servicing it.

For the inlet, i highly recommend MST v2. Just read the aftermarket inlet on stock turbo thread. At the same time, i would do the MPPK airbox mod and get a dry drop in filter if you have not already, but keep stock intake. Oh, and probably plan on replacing the CCV (aka PCV) hose at the same time.

Finally, if you can, it would be informative if you can capture a few (3) 'proper' logs (correct gear, smooth flat road, no bumps, etc) on a road that you can go back to and capture logs again under the same/similar conditions after you get the turbo install. Putting these in virtual dyno will give a nice perspective of the change in peak power and the overall shape of the curve, not to mention looking at the data in the logs themselves for comparison.
Any suggestion for a low pressure fuel pump? I will be doing this as well, I will also giving the turbo smart diverter valve a try.
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      08-01-2020, 06:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephensF30 View Post
Any suggestion for a low pressure fuel pump? I will be doing this as well, I will also giving the turbo smart diverter valve a try.
Don't need to upgrade the LPFP unless you plan on running port injection. The bottleneck of our fuel system is the HPFP.
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      08-01-2020, 08:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchi435i View Post
Don't need to upgrade the LPFP unless you plan on running port injection. The bottleneck of our fuel system is the HPFP.
From what i've heard is the opposite. HPFP should be able to handle near 500whp versus the LPFP not being able to keep up.
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      08-01-2020, 10:00 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by StephensF30 View Post
From what i've heard is the opposite. HPFP should be able to handle near 500whp versus the LPFP not being able to keep up.
Not sure where you've read that information but its quite the opposite. But if you truly feel you need a LPFP then do so at your own risk. I say this based on the numerous post I've read with issues after upgrading LPFP, such as ekp over heating.

Stock fueling is good for about 400whp from my research on pump gas 93. But even then you are still maxing out the limitations of the HPFP only and not the LPFP.

I'm in the 500whp realm with PS2 and custom E30 tune. This was only possible with upgraded HPFP alone. With pump 93 im possibly around 430whp on stock fueling.

I'm arranging a dyno run later this month and will post logs and my numbers.
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      08-03-2020, 10:02 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephensF30 View Post
From what i've heard is the opposite. HPFP should be able to handle near 500whp versus the LPFP not being able to keep up.
I think you need to do more reading and research. HPFP is definitely the bottleneck.
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      08-03-2020, 10:15 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchi435i View Post
Not sure where you've read that information but its quite the opposite. But if you truly feel you need a LPFP then do so at your own risk. I say this based on the numerous post I've read with issues after upgrading LPFP, such as ekp over heating.

Stock fueling is good for about 400whp from my research on pump gas 93. But even then you are still maxing out the limitations of the HPFP only and not the LPFP.

I'm in the 500whp realm with PS2 and custom E30 tune. This was only possible with upgraded HPFP alone. With pump 93 im possibly around 430whp on stock fueling.

I'm arranging a dyno run later this month and will post logs and my numbers.
Munchi - Do you have any quarter mile numbers with your setup? I am FBO PS2, 2H e30 MAP, and am considering Dorch stage 2, and am curious what that will run in the 1/4.
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      08-03-2020, 11:32 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephensF30 View Post
From what i've heard is the opposite. HPFP should be able to handle near 500whp versus the LPFP not being able to keep up.
Everything above is correct; do not upgrade the LPFP unless you are planning to run PI. The LPFP can easily support 500whp, even with some ethanol mixed in. In the recent big turbo thread, someone mad ~650whp with E50 and stock LPFP. Also as mentioned, replacing the LPFP can lead to other issues like EKP overheating/frying. HPFP limit will be roughly 400whp on pump gas.

I doubt you will even need a HPFP unless you are planning to run ethanol. You can probably max or nearly max the stage 1 turbo with stock HPFP, and if you dont want to run ethanol in the first place, meth might be the better choice for octane and supplemental fueling if you wanted to push higher power with more timing on a custom tune.
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      08-03-2020, 11:33 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erices1 335i View Post
Munchi - Do you have any quarter mile numbers with your setup? I am FBO PS2, 2H e30 MAP, and am considering Dorch stage 2, and am curious what that will run in the 1/4.
You're leaving alot of power on the table with PS2 and stock HPFP + OTS tune. If you have access to ethanol, a HPFP, custom tune, and maybe a little higher E mix would net you alot of power.
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