[bandook]

So currently I'm Jb4 + bef on stock turbo. 2013 pwg 335i. I can't really run over e25 on map 5 without hpfp crashing. I have walbro 450 lpfp too. I plan on getting ps2 in the spring. I was thinking of buying a burger wmi kit to allow me to still run E30-40 now. But will this also work well with the ps2 to hit my goal of 500+whp? Or do I need more/better fueling?

So basically will I be throwing away money by getting the wmi kit now because the ps2 requires PI or something like upgraded hpfp to hit 500+? I'm just still confused about the fueling side of things because there are so many ways people seem to go. Anyone running full e85 on ps2?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by bandook

So currently I'm Jb4 + bef on stock turbo. 2013 pwg 335i. I can't really run over e25 on map 5 without hpfp crashing. I have walbro 450 lpfp too. I plan on getting ps2 in the spring. I was thinking of buying a burger wmi kit to allow me to still run E30-40 now. But will this also work well with the ps2 to hit my goal of 500+whp? Or do I need more/better fueling?

So basically will I be throwing away money by getting the wmi kit now because the ps2 requires PI or something like upgraded hpfp to hit 500+? I'm just still confused about the fueling side of things because there are so many ways people seem to go. Anyone running full e85 on ps2?

I basically just answered this question in another thread:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...98&postcount=4

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

The "go to" fueling setup is upgraded HPFP. It's the simplest in that it does not require additional systems/controllers to be added as in the case with WMI or PI. The key question upfront is how good your pump gas fuel quality is and if you are willing to mix ethanol all the time. If your pump gas isn't great and you dont want to deal with mixing ethanol, WMI might be the way to go with stock HPFP and stock LPFP. If you want to mix some ethanol all the time (E30-E50), get a upgraded HPFP and keep stock LPFP. If you want to try and go full E85 with PS2 (uncommon and probably not my recommendation), you will need stage 2 HPFP, likely a LPFP and EKP. Alternatively for full E85 you could go PI and in that case you 100% need LPFP and EKP.

Let's break it down by component:

LPFP - You basically don't need this unless you are running PI, especially for your power level. The small asterisk would be if you wanted to try and push full E85 out of a stage 2 HPFP at 500+whp, but its uncommon to go full E85 as you get the majority of the benefits of ethanol without some drawbacks by going to E30-E50. You certainly dont need it with stock HPFP, so I don't know why you think you would need a LPFP with a meth kit, especially if you are using the meth for supplemental fueling. Also note if you do go upgraded LPFP and are demanding a lot of fuel from it, you will likely need to upgrade your EKP or you will probably fry the stock one.

HPFP - Most popular and simplest option since you just install the pump and the DME retains control of everything. You really only need this if you are going to get a ethanol mix tune with the PS2. If you are going to stick to pump gas + WMI with the PS2, there really isnt a need to get a HPFP with your target power level. If you are going to get HPFP and go ethanol mix tune, you probably want to install an ethanol sensor while you are in there. Yes, there are numerous options now. XDI was the monopoly for a while, now there is spool, dorch, etc.

PI - essentially the most complex in terms of both the install/supporting parts required and the control. You will need the LPFP (and EKP generally), the PI hardware (injectors, fuel rail, lines, etc), and the PI controller, and then a custom tune. Doable, but not he easiest nor the most popular.

WMI - somewhat popular, requires of course the full meth kit (tank, lines, nozzle, controller, etc) and generally speaking a custom tune to fully take advantage of it, although you can always spray meth on a OTS map and just take all the negative fuel corrections. You will need a custom tune to get to your power level though, unless BM3 comes out with a stage 2+ OTS race gas map for PWG or something. This is probably the route to go if you dont want to deal with mixing ethanol, then you can get the WMI kit and retain stock LPFP and HPFP. The HPFP should do OK even with PS2 on pump gas, although you might be near its fueling limit and relying on the WMI to some extent for fueling.

So basically, decide what fuel you want to run and go from there.

[Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by bandook

So currently I'm Jb4 + bef on stock turbo. 2013 pwg 335i. I can't really run over e25 on map 5 without hpfp crashing. I have walbro 450 lpfp too. I plan on getting ps2 in the spring. I was thinking of buying a burger wmi kit to allow me to still run E30-40 now. But will this also work well with the ps2 to hit my goal of 500+whp? Or do I need more/better fueling?

So basically will I be throwing away money by getting the wmi kit now because the ps2 requires PI or something like upgraded hpfp to hit 500+? I'm just still confused about the fueling side of things because there are so many ways people seem to go. Anyone running full e85 on ps2?

You have basically 3 options to get around the high pressure pump limit. Replace the high pressure pump (there are a couple options but they are expensive), add a WMI kit, or add a port injection kit. If the goal is 500whp then WMI is the most popular and least expensive option.

[harkes]

PWG PS2 here. WMI kit has been treating me very well the last 4 years. Only WMI related hiccups has been from running JB4 and a failed WMI solenoid. Both has now been replaced and the car is driving flawlessly.

Running 20psi to redline with 11 degree timing on 100% meth and 93

[Pussiwillow]

Originally Posted by harkes

PWG PS2 here. WMI kit has been treating me very well the last 4 years. Only WMI related hiccups has been from running JB4 and a failed WMI solenoid. Both has now been replaced and the car is driving flawlessly.

Running 20psi to redline with 11 degree timing on 100% meth and 93

That's good to hear may I ask what kit you went with

[bandook]

Originally Posted by harkes

PWG PS2 here. WMI kit has been treating me very well the last 4 years. Only WMI related hiccups has been from running JB4 and a failed WMI solenoid. Both has now been replaced and the car is driving flawlessly.

Running 20psi to redline with 11 degree timing on 100% meth and 93

That should put you close to 500whp huh? I like what wmi can do. I have a car with wmi now, but like you I've also had issues. Had a leaky check valve that caused problems. And I have failsafe but still always a little nervous of leaning out if there is a fault. Are you port injecting? I'm also not crazy about injecting into the charge pipe and potentially leaning out cylinders 1&6. I guess I'm talking myself out of meth but the price is appealing. It's also kind of cool. But I think I'd want to port inject so that would push the price up a lot I think.

So I'm leaning towards hpfp. I'm real close to just ordering Dorch stage 2 and calling it a day so I can run all the E85 I need. Just looking for more info to see if the stage 1 would be good enough to get 500whp with 93 or a small E mix. I don't want to get stage 1 and then find out I still need PI or meth to hit my target. Seriously appreciate the response though

[bandook]

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

You have basically 3 options to get around the high pressure pump limit. Replace the high pressure pump (there are a couple options but they are expensive), add a WMI kit, or add a port injection kit. If the goal is 500whp then WMI is the most popular and least expensive option.

Thanks. Do u know what it takes for wmi to hit 500? Like dual nozzle in charge pipe? Or port injection? 50/50 or full meth? I'm basically at sea level.

[harkes]

Originally Posted by bandook

That should put you close to 500whp huh? I like what wmi can do. I have a car with wmi now, but like you I've also had issues. Had a leaky check valve that caused problems. And I have failsafe but still always a little nervous of leaning out if there is a fault. Are you port injecting? I'm also not crazy about injecting into the charge pipe and potentially leaning out cylinders 1&6. I guess I'm talking myself out of meth but the price is appealing. It's also kind of cool. But I think I'd want to port inject so that would push the price up a lot I think.

So I'm leaning towards hpfp. I'm real close to just ordering Dorch stage 2 and calling it a day so I can run all the E85 I need. Just looking for more info to see if the stage 1 would be good enough to get 500whp with 93 or a small E mix. I don't want to get stage 1 and then find out I still need PI or meth to hit my target. Seriously appreciate the response though

I run dual nozzle in CP. Never found any evidence online that would suggest cyl 1 and 6 lean out this way. With CP meth I dont worry about running lean. DME will correct that and when HPFP pressure drop enough it will shut down cylinders to regain pressure. Really impressive DME and safety features. I have run out of meth a few times on purpose to test the system.

VirtualDyno says ~440whp which is good for 100-200kmh in 7.3sec (BMW M135i).

See this video:

And here explaining my setup:

[yoandry]

I have my setup ps2+jb4+mhd bef+wmi for 2+ years I think now without issues. Even that I have the xdi phfp for 8 month now and I haven't install it. Not even sure if I will, so if you want it I may put it up for sale.

[bandook]

Originally Posted by yoandry

I have my setup ps2+jb4+mhd bef+wmi for 2+ years I think now without issues. Even that I have the xdi phfp for 8 month now and I haven't install it. Not even sure if I will, so if you want it I may put it up for sale.

Thanks for the offer! I ended up ordering the bms wmi kit with 3 gallon stealth tank today. I needed to hear some positive talk about the wmi on these through the charge pipe and u guys definitely helped. Figured it's always nice to have the option of spraying meth even if I get a hpfp for more E85 in the future. Perhaps I find the meth to be enough.

Last question for now, you guys running a mix or full meth? I need to find a local source for meth by the gallon but for now I ordered a few cases of boost juice. I never ran more than 50% on my other car because I heard the AEM pumps can't handle it. Is the BMS pump designed to handle 100% or something because I've seen quite a few people say they were doing it?

[harkes]

My BMS pump has held up to 100% meth the last 4 years so you should be good

[yoandry]

Originally Posted by bandook

Thanks for the offer! I ended up ordering the bms wmi kit with 3 gallon stealth tank today. I needed to hear some positive talk about the wmi on these through the charge pipe and u guys definitely helped. Figured it's always nice to have the option of spraying meth even if I get a hpfp for more E85 in the future. Perhaps I find the meth to be enough.

Last question for now, you guys running a mix or full meth? I need to find a local source for meth by the gallon but for now I ordered a few cases of boost juice. I never ran more than 50% on my other car because I heard the AEM pumps can't handle it. Is the BMS pump designed to handle 100% or something because I've seen quite a few people say they were doing it?

I haven't try 100% meth, I have been doing only boost juice 50%. The only issue I see are the nylon lines that comes with the kit it may not hold much time with 100%.

[Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by bandook

Thanks for the offer! I ended up ordering the bms wmi kit with 3 gallon stealth tank today. I needed to hear some positive talk about the wmi on these through the charge pipe and u guys definitely helped. Figured it's always nice to have the option of spraying meth even if I get a hpfp for more E85 in the future. Perhaps I find the meth to be enough.

Last question for now, you guys running a mix or full meth? I need to find a local source for meth by the gallon but for now I ordered a few cases of boost juice. I never ran more than 50% on my other car because I heard the AEM pumps can't handle it. Is the BMS pump designed to handle 100% or something because I've seen quite a few people say they were doing it?

Good choice! Usually customers start with 50/50 mix and then if needed you can move up in the mix. Having some water in the mix is good for keeping EGT down.

[harkes]

Originally Posted by yoandry

I haven't try 100% meth, I have been doing only boost juice 50%. The only issue I see are the nylon lines that comes with the kit it may not hold much time with 100%.

Nylon lines get harder over time but has no problems with 100% meth. I use them from the BMS kit.

[FalcoFury]

Crazy question here. Might be stupid, might be genius. Won't know until I ask.

What if I installed a good HPFP, LPFP, EKG, , a PI, and a WMI, full kits, then ran e85 on a custom tune? Would my N55 morph into an S55 or better?

Anything to avoid upgrading the turbo.

[harkes]

Originally Posted by FalcoFury

Crazy question here. Might be stupid, might be genius. Won't know until I ask.

What if I installed a good HPFP, LPFP, EKG, , a PI, and a WMI, full kits, then ran e85 on a custom tune? Would my N55 morph into an S55 or better?

Anything to avoid upgrading the turbo.

Sorry. You obviously don't know much about mechanics.
Almost don't know where to start but an engine is an air pump with mechanical limitations with the turbo being the first limiting component when it comes to power

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by FalcoFury

Crazy question here. Might be stupid, might be genius. Won't know until I ask.

What if I installed a good HPFP, LPFP, EKG, , a PI, and a WMI, full kits, then ran e85 on a custom tune? Would my N55 morph into an S55 or better?

Anything to avoid upgrading the turbo.

From my understanding... WMI and running E85 is basically the same thing... turbo is the limiting factor... If you run WMI on top of E85 expect a 5.5% (20hp+/-) increase...

problem with E85 is it is not consistent and adding WMI will be more of a better controlled fuel delivery to max your tune...

another benefit of WMI is it will clean up your intake valves...

Corrosion is the only issue but someone else can chime in on that...

I've been contemplating a port injection set-up... but adds significant cost.. $460 vs $1215 port... I'm just starting to get into this and not sure of additional cost yet...

Another thing is I can get pre-mixed 50/50 meth 4 gallons on Amazon Prime

[quick_335i]

What would the power increase be running WMI on stock pwg turbo? Hate this tiny turbo, trying to figure out if its worth to bother with WMI or fuel upgrades before a turbo upgrade.

[FalcoFury]

Originally Posted by harkes

Sorry. You obviously don't know much about mechanics.
Almost don't know where to start but an engine is an air pump with mechanical limitations with the turbo being the first limiting component when it comes to power

Maybe something got lost in translation... I was being sarcastic lol


FastF30 Yeah I was just messing around but WMI is going to be my next upgrade, if not HPFP with the new bootmod3 e30 tune. I have tons of maintenance to do before any of that though, like a good walnut blast.

What are the pros and cons of PI vs WMI?

Can you link that Amazon 4 gallons of 50/50 meth, please?

quick_335i Look up the kits and they'll usually give you a ballpark for PWG. In my opinion, upgrading the turbos to anything crazy big is a huge waste of money. You have to really love the car and engine. You can make 800+whp easily with stuff bought online but it's going to cost you more than a new car. WMI is a great option and it's gonna feel like a rocket.

[435gc]

I found the best deal for the 50 50 boost juice including shipping was from Summit racing. Its a few dollars less than amazon. But if your looking for the best price to run meth you should buy a can of M1 and mix yourself with distilled water. You can send an email to VP racing and they will send you locations of local dealers.

WMI is a great option. I run 70% and can run 21 psi with clean timing and wgdc below 90 on my stock ewg turbo. IATs typically drop at least 20 degrees. If you already have a jb4 its a no brainer.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sno-40008

https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Performa...ost+jui&sr=8-4

https://vpracingfuels.com/find-vp-dealer/

[TSA8151]

Originally Posted by quick_335i

What would the power increase be running WMI on stock pwg turbo? Hate this tiny turbo, trying to figure out if its worth to bother with WMI or fuel upgrades before a turbo upgrade.

Minimal, and any power increase will be in the low rpms. Get a new turbo first.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by TSA8151

Minimal, and any power increase will be in the low rpms. Get a new turbo first.

This is correct for PWG. Your gains with HPFP or meth will be minimal on a stock PWG turbo. You can get close to maxing it with completely stock fuel system. A bit more is left on the table with EWG, hence the new BM3 stage 2+ map and all the people going custom tunes before that, once they upgraded fueling in some fashion.