F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N55 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > BM3 ACN Stage 2 91 Octane Boost Spike
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-23-2019, 02:11 PM   #23
thejeremyman9
Second Lieutenant
50
Rep
221
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trialmountain View Post
I agree, it never made sense to me either about the preventing boost lag. I did not do logs stock unfortunately so I cannot test it.

The standard tune feels a lot smoother and stronger than the ACN map. Which makes sense that it feels stronger due to the increased timing. I will be switching back to the ACN map they sent me after this tank is done and see if it feels better.

I do not have any major concerns, but did the 1-4 pull and had it pull some timing right after it shifted and started to ramp up. Timing always corrected back close to target though. See below, which makes me want to go back to the ACN and try again. The 92 gas in Seattle area really is bad. Third looks the worst, I'm not sure what it looks like when there is torque limits, but I do have the BM3 trans flash loaded. When it hit 4th it felt like it really opened up more.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5daf9d47ae729b17a37e0caa
Do you have a Costco Gas with just pump 91 that you can try? That's pretty much the only gas i ever get and i don't seem to have any timing issues with MHD stage 1.

Looking at the log, it looks like you are nowhere near boost targets in 1st and 2nd - same thing i experience. I haven't seen enough 1-2 logs from other people to see if they are experiencing the same. It could be the lack of time/load we mentioned previously, and that could be normal.

Interestingly in 3rd your boost quickly rises to target after the shift, even with the throttle 100% open and WGDC at ~75%, but then the boost falls off as RPM rises despite WGDC steadily climbing up to the low 90s by the top of 3rd... that seems really odd to me. It's like it is really trying to reach/maintain boost target but it simply cant. Similar behavior in 4th although the boost is more consistent across the gear, maintaining a little more than 1psi below target. I think that is considered about the normal deviation from what i have read, but on the other hand i see lots of people logs where boost is pretty much right on target (<0.3psi delta) across pulls, so it just makes me wonder why ours is not the same. WGDC also steadily rises throughout 4th despite no increase in boost. I dont recall seeing this behavior in other peoples logs where boost is right on target - the WGDC doesn't seem to rise throughout a gear like that.

For the brief time you are in 5th, boost is the closest to target yet WGDC is much lower in the 70s.

I see/feel the same thing about the car really feeling substantially faster than stock tune in the higher gears. 1-2 and part of 3 dont feel much different (probably because boost isnt much higher than stock because its not reaching target), but in 4th/5th you can really tell the difference.
Appreciate 0
      10-23-2019, 02:54 PM   #24
trialmountain
Private First Class
46
Rep
130
Posts

Drives: F10 N55 - EWG
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Woodinville, WA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Do you have a Costco Gas with just pump 91 that you can try? That's pretty much the only gas i ever get and i don't seem to have any timing issues with MHD stage 1.

Looking at the log, it looks like you are nowhere near boost targets in 1st and 2nd - same thing i experience. I haven't seen enough 1-2 logs from other people to see if they are experiencing the same. It could be the lack of time/load we mentioned previously, and that could be normal.

Interestingly in 3rd your boost quickly rises to target after the shift, even with the throttle 100% open and WGDC at ~75%, but then the boost falls off as RPM rises despite WGDC steadily climbing up to the low 90s by the top of 3rd... that seems really odd to me. It's like it is really trying to reach/maintain boost target but it simply cant. Similar behavior in 4th although the boost is more consistent across the gear, maintaining a little more than 1psi below target. I think that is considered about the normal deviation from what i have read, but on the other hand i see lots of people logs where boost is pretty much right on target (<0.3psi delta) across pulls, so it just makes me wonder why ours is not the same. WGDC also steadily rises throughout 4th despite no increase in boost. I dont recall seeing this behavior in other peoples logs where boost is right on target - the WGDC doesn't seem to rise throughout a gear like that.

For the brief time you are in 5th, boost is the closest to target yet WGDC is much lower in the 70s.

I see/feel the same thing about the car really feeling substantially faster than stock tune in the higher gears. 1-2 and part of 3 dont feel much different (probably because boost isnt much higher than stock because its not reaching target), but in 4th/5th you can really tell the difference.
This is with Costco 92 Octane and 4oz of boostane. I too have found Costco to be the best gas in our area. Other logs with Chevron or Shell had a lot of timing corrections.

I sent this to PTF to see what they say. I then start thinking about flow + PSI as WGDC may need to increase as more air flow is going through at the same pressure. Air in to the cylinder to air out of the cylinder increases as RPM increases you need more flow to maintain certain PSI. As you said though, I don't see this in others logs. Maybe I do have a boost leak? Only two likely locations would be at the hot and cold side of the intercooler. Will have to unfortunately pull it and double check everything just in case. F10 is a lot more difficult than the f30 to install the FMIC as it is in between the AC condenser and radiato

90%+ WGDC is not great and this is the issue N55 M2 guys are running into with E85 mixes and higher octanes. The turbo isn't as efficient. But on my N55 with EWG and lower octane I don't believe this should be an issue.

Went back and looked at one of the first logs I pulled: http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d34f37dae729b2135acc98a
Still showing high WGDC's. So it's not if something has changed since I originally tuned. I wish I had done stock logs before adding everything.
__________________
2015 F10 535i | BM3 STG 2 91 Octane | VRSF 4" DP | GPlus FMIC | Eibach SwayBars | H&R Springs | NGK 97506 .020"

Last edited by trialmountain; 10-23-2019 at 03:25 PM..
Appreciate 0
      10-23-2019, 05:05 PM   #25
thejeremyman9
Second Lieutenant
50
Rep
221
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trialmountain View Post
This is with Costco 92 Octane and 4oz of boostane. I too have found Costco to be the best gas in our area. Other logs with Chevron or Shell had a lot of timing corrections.

I sent this to PTF to see what they say. I then start thinking about flow + PSI as WGDC may need to increase as more air flow is going through at the same pressure. Air in to the cylinder to air out of the cylinder increases as RPM increases you need more flow to maintain certain PSI. As you said though, I don't see this in others logs. Maybe I do have a boost leak? Only two likely locations would be at the hot and cold side of the intercooler. Will have to unfortunately pull it and double check everything just in case. F10 is a lot more difficult than the f30 to install the FMIC as it is in between the AC condenser and radiato

90%+ WGDC is not great and this is the issue N55 M2 guys are running into with E85 mixes and higher octanes. The turbo isn't as efficient. But on my N55 with EWG and lower octane I don't believe this should be an issue.

Went back and looked at one of the first logs I pulled: http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d34f37dae729b2135acc98a
Still showing high WGDC's. So it's not if something has changed since I originally tuned. I wish I had done stock logs before adding everything.
Yeah, the main thing that has me concerned (to some extent) about my logs is that i see other people's logs that look much "better", mostly in terms of maintaining boost targets. With that, I can't help but think something is wrong that i need to fix; hence, the obsession with figuring that out lol.

Something that jumps out to me in that log is that boost target ramps in whereas i think all of your recent logs immediately jump to a 15 psi target that remains completely flat. I assume thats just because its an older version of the tune? It does have similar behavior to the more recent log though, where you start to drop below boost target after about 5000 rpm despite WGDC steadily climbing to 90+% near the end of the pull. Its possible you would have been below target earlier in the pull if the target just jumped up to 15psi immediately like it does in the more recent logs.

My logs are like the opposite - I only reach boost targets after 5000rpm in the higher gears.

Before you pull the IC and CP you might want to check these threads on Orings and boost leak testing. I plan to try and revise my boost leak tester this weekend since i ordered some more parts (first attempt was unsuccessful):

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...6#post25371966

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...8#post25343308

EDIT: If you are looking for 100% stock EWG logs, i have some here: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9
(Check the earliest pages, i have descriptions that should make it clear)
Appreciate 0
      10-24-2019, 11:16 AM   #26
trialmountain
Private First Class
46
Rep
130
Posts

Drives: F10 N55 - EWG
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Woodinville, WA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Yeah, the main thing that has me concerned (to some extent) about my logs is that i see other people's logs that look much "better", mostly in terms of maintaining boost targets. With that, I can't help but think something is wrong that i need to fix; hence, the obsession with figuring that out lol.

Something that jumps out to me in that log is that boost target ramps in whereas i think all of your recent logs immediately jump to a 15 psi target that remains completely flat. I assume thats just because its an older version of the tune? It does have similar behavior to the more recent log though, where you start to drop below boost target after about 5000 rpm despite WGDC steadily climbing to 90+% near the end of the pull. Its possible you would have been below target earlier in the pull if the target just jumped up to 15psi immediately like it does in the more recent logs.

My logs are like the opposite - I only reach boost targets after 5000rpm in the higher gears.

Before you pull the IC and CP you might want to check these threads on Orings and boost leak testing. I plan to try and revise my boost leak tester this weekend since i ordered some more parts (first attempt was unsuccessful):

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...6#post25371966

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...8#post25343308

EDIT: If you are looking for 100% stock EWG logs, i have some here: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9
(Check the earliest pages, i have descriptions that should make it clear)
Thank you for the tips, i'll keep you updated as things progress and PTF responds back to the support tickets.

I get your obsession, I am the same way and just want to feel that it's as good as it should be!

I see what you mean in that boost ramps up on the original log, it was within 20 mn, this is the exact same tune and version as the current one I'm running. Possibly adapting time?
__________________
2015 F10 535i | BM3 STG 2 91 Octane | VRSF 4" DP | GPlus FMIC | Eibach SwayBars | H&R Springs | NGK 97506 .020"
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2019, 03:27 PM   #27
trialmountain
Private First Class
46
Rep
130
Posts

Drives: F10 N55 - EWG
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Woodinville, WA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Yeah, the main thing that has me concerned (to some extent) about my logs is that i see other people's logs that look much "better", mostly in terms of maintaining boost targets. With that, I can't help but think something is wrong that i need to fix; hence, the obsession with figuring that out lol.

Something that jumps out to me in that log is that boost target ramps in whereas i think all of your recent logs immediately jump to a 15 psi target that remains completely flat. I assume thats just because its an older version of the tune? It does have similar behavior to the more recent log though, where you start to drop below boost target after about 5000 rpm despite WGDC steadily climbing to 90+% near the end of the pull. Its possible you would have been below target earlier in the pull if the target just jumped up to 15psi immediately like it does in the more recent logs.

My logs are like the opposite - I only reach boost targets after 5000rpm in the higher gears.

Before you pull the IC and CP you might want to check these threads on Orings and boost leak testing. I plan to try and revise my boost leak tester this weekend since i ordered some more parts (first attempt was unsuccessful):

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...6#post25371966

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...8#post25343308

EDIT: If you are looking for 100% stock EWG logs, i have some here: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9
(Check the earliest pages, i have descriptions that should make it clear)
Ran the new tune and got some additional logs on the V2 of my ACN map with just costco 92 octane. Had some weird inconsistencies in timing, but PTF said it was OK may still run boostane in here just as a safety net.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5db4a60eae729b6e85c58332 -

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5db4ce36ae729b6e85c58402 -

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5db4ceacae729b6e85c58407 -

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5db4cf06ae729b6e85c58409 -


PTF's review said that my Diverter Valve is likely on its way out and they've seen this before even with less than 50k miles. So i'll likely be getting the GFB DV+ to remedy this. I may suggest the same to you if you're confident in your CP and IC install sealed well. I looked at your logs again and you're only a few psi off so I wouldn't think there is a major leak in the intercooler flow track.
__________________
2015 F10 535i | BM3 STG 2 91 Octane | VRSF 4" DP | GPlus FMIC | Eibach SwayBars | H&R Springs | NGK 97506 .020"

Last edited by trialmountain; 10-28-2019 at 04:59 PM..
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2019, 03:45 PM   #28
thejeremyman9
Second Lieutenant
50
Rep
221
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trialmountain View Post
Ran the new tune and got some additional logs on the V2 of my ACN map with just costco 92 octane:

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5db4ceacae729b6e85c58407

PTF's review said that my Diverter Valve is likely on its way out and they've seen this before even with less than 50k miles. So i'll likely be getting the GFB DV+ to remedy this. I may suggest the same to you if you're confident in your CP and IC install sealed well. I looked at your logs again and you're only a few psi off so I wouldn't think there is a major leak in the intercooler flow track.
Did they give any indication why they think its the DV? Just because you can't maintain boost once the throttle opens 100%? I'm pretty sure that is a PITA to install unless you are swapping turbo or something at the same time. Looking at your log, it seems weird that the throttle opens all the way then closes abruptly after. Your turbo seems to spool really fast... and it looks like the throttle closure was because MAP was going to overshoot boost target (which it did). Once the throttle opens back up, you cant maintain target boost. I assume thats why they suspect DV?

I found and fixed a leak at my IC-CP connection and wrote about that and my boost leak tester on the Oring and boost leak tester threads. Direct link to the post about my leak and the solution with new logs is here (https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...5&postcount=23). I have better boost control and can reach target as early as 2nd gear now, but still not in 1st. I assume thats normal. 4th-5th gear pulls look on point, except i am still below target in the first part of 4th gear when i do a pull from low RPM. Since my boost leak tester works now, I am 100% sure i dont have leaks on any of the parts I installed.

I might suggest confirming no boost leaks before you go down the DV path.
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2019, 04:38 PM   #29
thejeremyman9
Second Lieutenant
50
Rep
221
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trialmountain View Post
Ran the new tune and got some additional logs on the V2 of my ACN map with just costco 92 octane. Had some weird inconsistencies in timing, but PTF said it was OK may still run boostane in here just as a safety net.
Oh and one more thing about running boostane - if you have local access to E85, you might just try mixing a few gallons in with pump gas, without switching to the E85 tune. I haven't tried it yet, but there is some discussion here:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...4#post25390694
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2019, 04:38 PM   #30
trialmountain
Private First Class
46
Rep
130
Posts

Drives: F10 N55 - EWG
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Woodinville, WA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Did they give any indication why they think its the DV? Just because you can't maintain boost once the throttle opens 100%? I'm pretty sure that is a PITA to install unless you are swapping turbo or something at the same time. Looking at your log, it seems weird that the throttle opens all the way then closes abruptly after. Your turbo seems to spool really fast... and it looks like the throttle closure was because MAP was going to overshoot boost target (which it did). Once the throttle opens back up, you cant maintain target boost. I assume thats why they suspect DV?

I found and fixed a leak at my IC-CP connection and wrote about that and my boost leak tester on the Oring and boost leak tester threads. Direct link to the post about my leak and the solution with new logs is here (https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...5&postcount=23). I have better boost control and can reach target as early as 2nd gear now, but still not in 1st. I assume thats normal. 4th-5th gear pulls look on point, except i am still below target in the first part of 4th gear when i do a pull from low RPM. Since my boost leak tester works now, I am 100% sure i dont have leaks on any of the parts I installed.

I might suggest confirming no boost leaks before you go down the DV path.

It is a pain to install from what I've read, but so is the intercooler on the F10. I have access to a lift which makes it easier.

They did not give much as to why they believe its the DV, other than they've seen it before and that is what it looks like. It also behaves differently in my 1-3 log (http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5db4a60eae729b6e85c58332) where it doesn't spike, but you're right it still spools up really fast and usually to target then tapers.

Glad you were able to find and fix your leak, I did not see the thread yet!
__________________
2015 F10 535i | BM3 STG 2 91 Octane | VRSF 4" DP | GPlus FMIC | Eibach SwayBars | H&R Springs | NGK 97506 .020"
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2019, 04:39 PM   #31
trialmountain
Private First Class
46
Rep
130
Posts

Drives: F10 N55 - EWG
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Woodinville, WA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Oh and one more thing about running boostane - if you have local access to E85, you might just try mixing a few gallons in with pump gas, without switching to the E85 tune. I haven't tried it yet, but there is some discussion here:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...4#post25390694
I wish I did have easy access to E85 rather than using an MMT based octane booster. Washington only has 2 E85 stations on this side of the mountain and one is on a military base and the other is 45 miles away.
__________________
2015 F10 535i | BM3 STG 2 91 Octane | VRSF 4" DP | GPlus FMIC | Eibach SwayBars | H&R Springs | NGK 97506 .020"
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:01 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST