[Wills2]

The assumptions we have made around autonomous driving does speak to the disregard we hold ourselves in, our central nervous system is an incredible piece of kit (no matter how dumb the user interface ) what we do on a daily basis is amazing when you compare it to the best efforts to replicate it artificially.

We do it all in real time in an instant we can process vast amounts of data and instinctively rely on our experience to react in a way a computer cannot, I'll guess the PHDs working on these autonomous projects have a new found respect for the human central nervous system.

[Kal101]

Could this be why there were actually more accidents in new 20 mph zones if I recall right

Are we dumbing driving too much?

Do we need all this tech to keep us safe or is it merely lulling us into a false sense of security , classical example was that guy a while ago caught in the passenger seat of his Tesla on the motorway.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Kal101

Could this be why there were actually more accidents in new 20 mph zones if I recall right

Are we dumbing driving too much?

Do we need all this tech to keep us safe or is it merely lulling us into a false sense of security , classical example was that guy a while ago caught in the passenger seat of his Tesla on the motorway.

Loads of dumb driving, as we know, evidenced today by drivers who were stuck behind stationary cars on the M5 at Avonmouth (the motorway has been closed) turning their cars around and driving against the flow to get back to the previous junction.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-50445590

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Wills2

The assumptions we have made around autonomous driving does speak to the disregard we hold ourselves in, our central nervous system is an incredible piece of kit (no matter how dumb the user interface ) what we do on a daily basis is amazing when you compare it to the best efforts to replicate it artificially.

We do it all in real time in an instant we can process vast amounts of data and instinctively rely on our experience to react in a way a computer cannot, I'll guess the PHDs working on these autonomous projects have a new found respect for the human central nervous system.

I agree with what you are saying, the more we try and out perform the human brain and senses, the more we realize that it is an even bigger challenge.

I suppose the problem is, many car 'users' just don't concentrate enough on driving for machines to out perform them. I'm all for robots doing some mundane jobs which humans find tedious or monotonous, even carrying out safety functions, but decision making is at a completely different level.

Perhaps the money being put into autonomous driving would be better invested in driver training and refresher courses.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Kal101

Could this be why there were actually more accidents in new 20 mph zones if I recall right

Are we dumbing driving too much?

Do we need all this tech to keep us safe or is it merely lulling us into a false sense of security , classical example was that guy a while ago caught in the passenger seat of his Tesla on the motorway.

I believe it is a two edged sword. Good intentions don't always work to advantage. If folks feel they don't need to concentrate as much, due to the machine taking over the safety functions, whether that is true or not, drivers will be ever more distracted. It is human nature.

[Broncho]

Good ebening everybody

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by Kal101

Could this be why there were actually more accidents in new 20 mph zones if I recall right

Are we dumbing driving too much?

Do we need all this tech to keep us safe or is it merely lulling us into a false sense of security , classical example was that guy a while ago caught in the passenger seat of his Tesla on the motorway.

Yes people are zoning out thinking the computer will do it for them, and I guess people also zone out at low speeds like 20 regardless (but I've yet to witness many people doing 20 in a 20), then there are the drivers that choose to drive below the posted limit so they can zone out and use the defence they weren't speeding when an incident happens, because the continued war against edging over the speed limit has given many the impression that if they are slightly below it then they are fine and not to blame.

I think the current driver aids are just that, they can help IF you continue to be alert and drive the car, but as the OP shows people aren't and then blame the signs for their bad driving....people love being able to blame someone or something else, responsibility is readily passed on. (I do plenty of bad driving BTW ) but I do blame myself when it happens.

The Tesla incident is madness and hopefully he doesn't have a licence anymore but shows how dumb the user interface can be.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I agree with what you are saying, the more we try and out perform the human brain and senses, the more we realize that it is an even bigger challenge.

I suppose the problem is, many car 'users' just don't concentrate enough on driving for machines to out perform them. I'm all for robots doing some mundane jobs which humans find tedious or monotonous, even carrying out safety functions, but decision making is at a completely different level.

Perhaps the money being put into autonomous driving would be better invested in driver training and refresher courses.

Autonomous driving is the 21st century equivalent of those flying cars they promised us in the 60's....

[mcoops]

I don't know why everyone is worrying. Look how well VAR is working in football. Autonomous driving can't be that much harder right?

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by mcoops

I don't know why everyone is worrying. Look how well VAR is working in football. Autonomous driving can't be that much harder right?

The trouble is there isn't an algorithm that makes something sentient, then again VAR is controlled by a human.

[1 AKY]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Perhaps the money being put into autonomous driving would be better invested in driver training and refresher courses.

I think the most effective use of the money would be bringing back the basics by formally and practically teaching our kids (as well as a lot of ignorant parents) the Green Cross Code. The number of times I have to either use my horn or slam my brakes on because pedestrians (especially Mums with pushchairs/prams!!) don't bother to stop and check before they cross, especially at T-junctions.

[mcoops]

Originally Posted by Wills2

The trouble is there isn't an algorithm that makes something sentient, then again VAR is controlled by a human.

I think the other interesting question is, even if you could get to the point where AI assistance or autonomy is safer overall across the driving population, how do you code for individual ethical decision making? Do you account for who is in your vehicle or one you might hit, or the number or age of pedestrians you are trying to avoid. Minefield.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by mcoops

I think the other interesting question is, even if you could get to the point where AI assistance or autonomy is safer overall across the driving population, how do you code for individual ethical decision making? Do you account for who is in your vehicle or one you might hit, or the number or age of pedestrians you are trying to avoid. Minefield.

Driving is one of the safest things we do I've always been curious as to the safety angle and why it's the main push point and explanation for the need to have autonomous cars, so many other things are more dangerous to our health yet get scant attention.

You're far more likely to die at your own hands if you're man than in a RTC yet they are pouring billions into autonomy to make us safer on the road and fine us millions to teach us a lesson so we know what is good for us... (when we all know that profit (corp) and control (gov) is the main driver understandably)

The corps would be perfectly happy to release car that wasn't that safe if they could afford to pay the litigation costs and still turn a profit (see the Ford pinto let them burn memo for details)

To the moral question, I'd be interested to know how many times that situation has occurred where some sort of aggravating factors haven't come into play (dangerous driving/speeding in bad weather/drunk/drug driving etc...) and I'd wager the odds of it happening is a billion to one whilst driving at the speed limit and to the conditions which of course an autonomous car would be, should it ever exist.

But given that my car can't even sense rain consistently, I very much doubt it would be able to pick up on the subtle behavioural traits we as humans pick up on instantly to avoid issues on the road, like that cyclist that keeps veering to the right to avoid drains etc...meaning we move out further and look for the next drain that they will swerve out for...so many little things we do without probably remembering after the event.

In short it wouldn't be able to decide and would probably hand control back the driver.

[Kal101]

Originally Posted by Wills2

Driving is one of the safest things we do I've always been curious as to the safety angle and why it's the main push point and explanation for the need to have autonomous cars, so many other things are more dangerous to our health yet get scant attention.

You're far more likely to die at your own hands if you're man than in a RTC yet they are pouring billions into autonomy to make us safer on the road and fine us millions to teach us a lesson so we know what is good for us... (when we all know that profit (corp) and control (gov) is the main driver understandably)

The corps would be perfectly happy to release car that wasn't that safe if they could afford to pay the litigation costs and still turn a profit (see the Ford pinto let them burn memo for details)

To the moral question, I'd be interested to know how many times that situation has occurred where some sort of aggravating factors haven't come into play (dangerous driving/speeding in bad weather/drunk/drug driving etc...) and I'd wager the odds of it happening is a billion to one whilst driving at the speed limit and to the conditions which of course an autonomous car would be, should it ever exist.

But given that my car can't even sense rain consistently, I very much doubt it would be able to pick up on the subtle behavioural traits we as humans pick up on instantly to avoid issues on the road, like that cyclist that keeps veering to the right to avoid drains etc...meaning we move out further and look for the next drain that they will swerve out for...so many little things we do without probably remembering after the event.

In short it wouldn't be able to decide and would probably hand control back the driver.

Some good points made here and above. Speed is easy to regulate and target. Personally I believe a lot of accidents are caused by the pillock factor and distraction- you can’t target them as easily ,unfortunately.