[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by Musashi

Yes, X5 in Texas would not make sense on an SUV. You are welcome. If you read this forum learning that- A- there are two types of CCBs (resin vs 3d preform matrix) B- Resin now actually costs 400$ per rotor with profit for the maker and C- Resin CCBs oxidize internally whereas 3D matrix wears by friction- this is more knowledge than I knew three years ago.

of course it doesn't make sense here, even so having better brakes isn't something I would say no to.

Do they make rotors for larger vehicles such as mine? I would absolutely pay that per rotor

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

of course it doesn't make sense here, even so having better brakes isn't something I would say no to.

Do they make rotors for larger vehicles such as mine? I would absolutely pay that per rotor

Any car, any plane, any size. Fancy tungsten carbide, diamond grinders or laser tools can take a 410x34mm and deliver a 380x30. The only metric that matters is the hat dimension. Unsure if any maker will accept a resin CCBs order for 1500$ but I'd pay to see the faces of your local BMW shop drop when told you never paid 20k. 3D CCBs are easy to order, but months to 'sew' and bake.

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by Musashi

Any car, any plane, any size. Fancy tungsten carbide, diamond grinders or laser tools can take a 410x34mm and deliver a 380x30. The only metric that matters is the hat dimension. Unsure if any maker will accept a resin CCBs order for 1500$ but I'd pay to see the faces of your local BMW shop drop when told you never paid 20k. 3D CCBs are easy to order, but months to 'sew' and bake.

Thank you, so did you order just one set for your car (front + back) or are you still testing the fronts only? I was curious to see if they'd do low volume orders or perhaps already make a set that I could use. my current rotors are quite large (biggest they offered for the current gen X5). I know they don't need to be as big but the size fills out larger wheels better.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

Thank you, so did you order just one set for your car (front + back) or are you still testing the fronts only? I was curious to see if they'd do low volume orders or perhaps already make a set that I could use. my current rotors are quite large (biggest they offered for the current gen X5). I know they don't need to be as big but the size fills out larger wheels better.

This is distracting me form grad studies! This and the 15 months old baby.. lol but true... Ordered fronts only, and in Aug 2018 after reading technical articles said or watching them slow down commercial and combat aircraft. What if the CCBs turned out too small? what if they cracked? What if they squealed? What if they were bad in the cold like any other CCB I tried? Will I be like those M owners disappointed by their 20K BMW CCBs? But theirs are resin... Kept my steels just in case...All that turned out nonsense. 'Testing' only meant to ensure that 370x30mmx3700lbs works as fine or better than on a lighter Ferrari, Koenigsegg, AM, Lambo, typical 3D customers... Since I am keeping the car several more years, will also do the rears. Either this or some engine mod of which I am way more insecure..

Everything size wise is customizable. Are yours 365mm or 400mm? Past hr read a bit on the X5 while crunching numbers and an expert's comparison. Your X5 is 4900-5300lbs, nearly 2000 lbs more than a 911, 1200-1500lbs heavier than mine so min 45-50% more energy at equal speed; but 365mm is smaller than my Brembo set. On a smaller car you would feel the mass change; unsure about 5000lbs... Resin CCBs do exist, size irrelevant, about same cost as steels but a longevity question: 5000lbs + mass. 100k or 200k miles longevity? 3D CCBs are the most compatible and only recommendable CCB; pricier even if above and beyond in positives. The hotter they get, the better they perform. However, having driven the X5 M50i V8, a terrific poised and powerful feel no matter the drive mode, Comfort to Sports+ Steels are .. adequate; Any particular reason for desiring change?

Cost unsure what to say. Have been consulted on X5 customization, I point out that the 22" specific sizes are vvvvv expensive. 21" staggered edges the set below 3700$ CAD. Even a 4k$ brake set outlasting the car sounds like peanuts if comparing them to tire cost - be it in the US your tires are 30% cheaper than here...

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by Musashi

This is distracting me form grad studies! This and the 15 months old baby.. lol but true... Ordered fronts only, and in Aug 2018 after reading technical articles said or watching them slow down commercial and combat aircraft. What if the CCBs turned out too small? what if they cracked? What if they squealed? What if they were bad in the cold like any other CCB I tried? Will I be like those M owners disappointed by their 20K BMW CCBs? But theirs are resin... Kept my steels just in case...All that turned out nonsense. 'Testing' only meant to ensure that 370x30mmx3700lbs works as fine or better than on a lighter Ferrari, Koenigsegg, AM, Lambo, typical 3D customers... Since I am keeping the car several more years, will also do the rears. Either this or some engine mod of which I am way more insecure..

Everything size wise is customizable. Are yours 365mm or 400mm? Past hr read a bit on the X5 while crunching numbers and an expert's comparison. Your X5 is 4900-5300lbs, nearly 2000 lbs more than a 911, 1200-1500lbs heavier than mine so min 45-50% more energy at equal speed; but 365mm is smaller than my Brembo set. On a smaller car you would feel the mass change; unsure about 5000lbs... Resin CCBs do exist, size irrelevant, about same cost as steels but a longevity question: 5000lbs + mass. 100k or 200k miles longevity? 3D CCBs are the most compatible and only recommendable CCB; pricier even if above and beyond in positives. The hotter they get, the better they perform. However, having driven the X5 M50i V8, a terrific poised and powerful feel no matter the drive mode, Comfort to Sports+ Steels are .. adequate; Any particular reason for desiring change?

Cost unsure what to say. Have been consulted on X5 customization, I point out that the 22" specific sizes are vvvvv expensive. 21" staggered edges the set below 3700$ CAD. Even a 4k$ brake set outlasting the car sounds like peanuts if comparing them to tire cost - be it in the US your tires are 30% cheaper than here...

I have 21" wheels on mine with staggered 275/40R21 107Y and 315/35/R21 111Y read tires. The brakes are M Sport fixed 4 piston 395x36 + 370x24 rears.

What subject do you teach? I'm an engineer so I find your in-depth explanations quite pleasing.

I'd ideally like longevity and reduced brake dust through better components while also reducing unsprung weight in this SUV. I believe it will make a noticable difference (I could also swap to lighter wheels), plus I like the idea of CCB's

I paid $1600 for tires after losing one to a price of rebar. I'm usually factory P Zero (PZ4 technically) runflats. they're not great but Michelin doesn't make any for the X5 sadly in 21"

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

I have 21" wheels on mine with staggered 275/40R21 107Y and 315/35/R21 111Y read tires. The brakes are M Sport fixed 4 piston 395x36 + 370x24 rears.

What subject do you teach? I'm an engineer so I find your in-depth explanations quite pleasing.

I'd ideally like longevity and reduced brake dust through better components while also reducing unsprung weight in this SUV. I believe it will make a noticable difference (I could also swap to lighter wheels), plus I like the idea of CCB's I paid $1600 for tires after losing one to a price of rebar. I'm usually factory P Zero (PZ4 technically) runflats. they're not great but Michelin doesn't make any for the X5 sadly in 21"

Thank you for the feedback. I had more indepth explanations- being suckered into strawmans answering challenges that CCBs make no difference. There is a separate thread about resin CCBs costing 350-500$ per rotor and marked up 1000%. Have you seen it? Presently studies are a grad degree in national and intl security, and extension of the prev BA. College degree was math and physics; took a wavelength spec of light and its period around a star and could figure out mass of the star, of the planet, orbit period and atmospheric composition.Therefore technical articles are easy to follow even though the math is now almost forgotten. But school enables me to access any peer to peer engineering articles on CCB R&D, where they were and where they are at now. Pure coincidence, but for 15 yrs the small garage shop I used to take my former cars was run by a Transport Canada brake consultant and Indy brake system and car developer. He could look at a rotor and forecast when and how they would fail. Once brought him an EBC set to install; he glanced and said "Garbage! Just because EBC does motorcycles does not mean they will last you here." They failed me a winter later during an emergency braking; the friction surface disintegrated and peeled off; the 'steel' corroded sagittally; I could not tell. Luckily, no impact. Still got them as weights and a reminder what garbage does. Therefore I picked up a few things from him.

X5- am sure you read this X3 article at https://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/...date-6-review/ "it shed 34 pounds total, 8.5 pounds per corner. That doesn't sound like much, but when paired with the sticky Michelins, the X3 put down some much-improved numbers. 0-60 mph was cut down to 4.4 seconds, 0.4 quicker than stock; and the quarter mile time was improved by a similar 0.3 seconds, down to 13.1 at 105 mph. Braking was significantly improved, reducing the 60-0 distance by 9 feet to 103 feet, which all combines to a 0.9-second improvement to the figure-eight time of 25 seconds flat. To put that figure-eight time into perspective, 25.0 is 0.1 second quicker than a 2018 WRX STI, 2011 X6M, and 2008 Mitsubishi Evo X and as quick as a 2007 Ferrari 599 GTB, 2009 911 Carrera S, and 2018 Kia Stinger. Not bad for an SUV."

Unless having to change brake set now, I would do wheels first. Get a feel for that. If happy, and still wanting more then let's talk rotors. These? https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...e-rotors-pair/ and
https://www.bremboparts.com/europe/e...eter=395&th=36

3D CCB would be approx 7.2-7.5Kg vs OEM 17.5 kg let's estimate 10kg less reduction or 22lbs per front rotor, 44lbs total. Add 8 lbs lighter wheels, so 44+(8x2)= 60lbs less unsprung mass front wheels alone.. You will feel it. Brembo also introduced a lightweight steel for Daimler: 15% lighter, but still 15 kg each https://www.brembo.com/en/company/ne...mbo-brake-disc. I think these are only for Daimler not BMW, but you would have to look further to see if the specs match. They really look nice, but how will a 2.5mm steel jacket handle the elements, unsure. Brembo claims 20 year corrosion resistance and could be a response to Bosch's patent for tungsten coating for future Porsche steel systems.

would I do it? Unsure for Texas... I would do CCBs for fun, cool factor, looks and to be a jerk with the performance/weight loss in such a big car. But if driving family and kids, really unsure if I wanted that faster acceleration and decel on this 4.4.l monster.

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by Musashi

Thank you for the feedback. I had more indepth explanations- being suckered into strawmans answering challenges that CCBs make no difference. There is a separate thread about resin CCBs costing 350-500$ per rotor and marked up 1000%. Have you seen it? Presently studies are a grad degree in national and intl security, and extension of the prev BA. College degree was math and physics; took a wavelength spec of light and its period around a star and could figure out mass of the star, of the planet, orbit period and atmospheric composition.Therefore technical articles are easy to follow even though the math is now almost forgotten. But school enables me to access any peer to peer engineering articles on CCB R&D, where they were and where they are at now. Pure coincidence, but for 15 yrs the small garage shop I used to take my former cars was run by a Transport Canada brake consultant and Indy brake system and car developer. He could look at a rotor and forecast when and how they would fail. Once brought him an EBC set to install; he glanced and said "Garbage! Just because EBC does motorcycles does not mean they will last you here." They failed me a winter later during an emergency braking; the friction surface disintegrated and peeled off; the 'steel' corroded sagittally; I could not tell. Luckily, no impact. Still got them as weights and a reminder what garbage does. Therefore I picked up a few things from him.

X5- am sure you read this X3 article at https://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/...date-6-review/ "it shed 34 pounds total, 8.5 pounds per corner. That doesn't sound like much, but when paired with the sticky Michelins, the X3 put down some much-improved numbers. 0-60 mph was cut down to 4.4 seconds, 0.4 quicker than stock; and the quarter mile time was improved by a similar 0.3 seconds, down to 13.1 at 105 mph. Braking was significantly improved, reducing the 60-0 distance by 9 feet to 103 feet, which all combines to a 0.9-second improvement to the figure-eight time of 25 seconds flat. To put that figure-eight time into perspective, 25.0 is 0.1 second quicker than a 2018 WRX STI, 2011 X6M, and 2008 Mitsubishi Evo X and as quick as a 2007 Ferrari 599 GTB, 2009 911 Carrera S, and 2018 Kia Stinger. Not bad for an SUV."

Unless having to change brake set now, I would do wheels first. Get a feel for that. If happy, and still wanting more then let's talk rotors. These? https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...e-rotors-pair/ and
https://www.bremboparts.com/europe/e...eter=395&th=36

3D CCB would be approx 7.2-7.5Kg vs OEM 17.5 kg let's estimate 10kg less reduction or 22lbs per front rotor, 44lbs total. Add 8 lbs lighter wheels, so 44+(8x2)= 60lbs less unsprung mass front wheels alone.. You will feel it. Brembo also introduced a lightweight steel for Daimler: 15% lighter, but still 15 kg each https://www.brembo.com/en/company/ne...mbo-brake-disc. I think these are only for Daimler not BMW, but you would have to look further to see if the specs match. They really look nice, but how will a 2.5mm steel jacket handle the elements, unsure. Brembo claims 20 year corrosion resistance and could be a response to Bosch's patent for tungsten coating for future Porsche steel systems.

would I do it? Unsure for Texas... I would do CCBs for fun, cool factor, looks and to be a jerk with the performance/weight loss in such a big car. But if driving family and kids, really unsure if I wanted that faster acceleration and decel on this 4.4.l monster.

like you, I always try to be upfront and provide technical data myself when appropriate. When I see someone go to much further lengths like yourself it establishes a basis for everyone for years to come.

I've owned an X3 M40i and will say that SUV handled like a champ. I could put down 4.4s 0-60mph stock so I think their times are a bit off. Mine initially came with 21" wheels which I swapped for factory 20"s on better tires. This helped the feel a huge amount without being a big weight savings like proper forged wheels would be. The X3 M40i has a perfect 50/50 weight distribution so the changes will be felt a lot more than in my massive X5 50i. I believe the X5 has a 51.5/48.5 weight distribution due to the heavier V8, while the I6 40i is basically 50/50.

I don't need brakes yet, but I will soon. my pads are at 6.5 up front and 7.5-8 in the rear I'd like to do something different, at least try a ceramic based pad for reduced dust + better stopping power (whether the stopping part is accurate remains to be seen). As for rotors, I think it would mainly be for the cool factor alongside the better performance you'd be getting. I'd like to keep my factory calipers because this isn't a full M car so no need to drop excessive amounts (more than I already have) on what is basically a fun project.

I was initially going to get a set of aftermarket 20" wheels but opted against it due to the lack of options when I purchased mine. There's a new bolt pattern so many companies didn't have things ready for a while. Since I've had my X5 for a year now, it's not worth my money to get another set of wheels since I'll only be keeping it another 1.5-2 years max. I always buy things up front to get the longest life out of them. I could get another set now but it would be rather wasteful and I have other projects I'd rather throw money at currently since wheels would cost at least $3k + tires (~$1200).

I wouldn't mind new brake pads and rotors since I'll need the pads anyways and $2k would be well spent. I'm sure you're thinking that might seem contradictory but this is how I view things.

stock performance of my 50i is quite impressive. I've put down a 4.05s 0-60mph run recorded via Draggy (GPS type VBOX if you're not familiar) and I can routinely do SUV 4.3s runs without a problem. This is all done at a DA of ~3500-4000ft. For a non-M 5300lb SUV that's not too shabby! I have no children and only drive an SUV out of necessity here. Everyone drives a truck, whether a 1/2 ton to 1ton and or SUV being in a sedan/coupe is a guaranteed way to die in an accident (I've seen far too many fatalities this year alone). Even so, I love my X5 and find its handling to be laughably good to the point where I can easily scare any passenger throwing it through corners (yes I'm serious) because with the DHP it handles extremely well, not just for its size!

We face more issues with dust/dirt where I live than anything else. Rotor wear isn't an issue at all only shoddy roads and debris causing me to lose 1 tire so far this year and another on my previous BMW.


Those all sound like very interesting subjects to teach! is it normal to cover such a wide spectrum ? I assume you have a mathamatics background in some sort of STEM field. I was pursuing my MS in ChemE but stopped to accept a position where I am now years ago. I don't regret doing so because I've moved up a lot in a short period of time through hard work and expertise. I plan to eventually finish an MS, although it won't be ChemE anymore. I'd like to diversity potentially into data science of a related field.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

like you, I always try to be upfront and provide technical data myself when appropriate. When I see someone go to much further lengths like yourself it establishes a basis for everyone for years to come.

I wouldn't mind new brake pads and rotors since I'll need the pads anyways and $2k would be well spent. I'm sure you're thinking that might seem contradictory but this is how I view things.

stock performance of my 50i is quite impressive. I've put down a 4.05s 0-60mph run recorded via Draggy (GPS type VBOX if you're not familiar) and I can routinely do SUV 4.3s runs without a problem. This is all done at a DA of ~3500-4000ft.

We face more issues with dust/dirt where I live than anything else. Rotor wear isn't an issue at all only shoddy roads and debris causing me to lose 1 tire so far this year and another on my previous BMW.

Those all sound like very interesting subjects to teach! is it normal to cover such a wide spectrum ? I assume you have a mathamatics background in some sort of STEM field. I was pursuing my MS in ChemE but stopped to accept a position where I am now years ago. I don't regret doing so because I've moved up a lot in a short period of time through hard work and expertise. I plan to eventually finish an MS, although it won't be ChemE anymore. I'd like to diversity potentially into data science of a related field.

It is indeed fun knowing that you treat your X5 as a sports car, i I get you on the wheels. besides, before you even consider any swap, you should always weigh your wheels before deciding to go for another brand. I recall the 405M wheelset, 20" was forged and maybe 5 lbs heavier than Ray's but so prone to bending. from that set to a 361 I gained weight before learning my lesson. If you want to stay put with your current wheel-set, you can rest assured it is a solid set. Some people pull flow formed lightweight wheels, much lighter but super soft or prone to cracking! esp ona 5000 lbs car.

math- it was just school, I never used it professionally, just something I liked learning about. Once out of college I focused on Arts and Science, history, IR, etc. In university, McGill, found math and physics suddenly boring. Out of nowhere. But that foundation always helped later.

Now rotors and pads. There are some things that you must never do, such as mixing pads and rotors not designed for each other. I tried ceramic pads, most are garbage. they work well on cheap cast iron rotors - hard pad with soft "steel." You never get the right crystalline film, proper friction and pad material, just very abrasive. There are stories of CCB owners pairing whatever pad with their CCB and wrecking it in a day, as they failed to understand that resin CCB works by using the smooth ceramic coating as a heat transfer layer , the pads serving only as a conductor. Similarly on Brembo steel, a very HIGH quality steel, very few pad combinations work well- Pagid and a few semi-metallic compounds work best. Brembo has also several variations- a regular less dusty pad, with less bite, and a "Euro Sport" version, dustier, but more bite. It is all application relative and, of course size availability.

https://www.bridgestonetire.com/trea...lic-brake-pads

But say mixing ceramic pad with Brembo GT steel? I would never try. Ceramic pad with high grade steel will resonate too much, maybe less dust but definitely poor braking. Especially wet or cold, mamma mia. You will hate them and wreck the rotors. There is quite a bit of R&D to determine which compound and what proportions works best with a specific steel. ECS tuning and Turner are good bets to choose a spare set. And I always recommend having a spare front pad set, they are a consumable and an important safety component.

Similar with 3D CCBs- we are talking high tensile strength materials, and you want the pads to wear and rotors last forever while retaining braking in -40 to +700C temperature range. whatever you do, never experiment on an expensive brake system, even your OEM is quite pricey.

Dust-- well i dislike it, but if running steels braking power trumps all.

Will PM you three manufacturer POCs for CCBs. Again, i do not recommend them for your car due to its class of vehicle and as an overkill. But if you keep using it like a sports car that is up for you to decide.

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by Musashi

It is indeed fun knowing that you treat your X5 as a sports car, I get you on the wheels. besides, before you even consider any swap, you should always weigh your wheels before deciding to go for another brand. I recall the 405M wheelset, 20" was forged and maybe 5 lbs heavier than Ray's but so prone to bending. from that set to a 361 I gained weight before learning my lesson. If you want to stay put with your current wheel-set, you can rest assured it is a solid set. Some people pull flow formed lightweight wheels, much lighter but super soft or prone to cracking! esp on a 5000 lbs car.

math- it was just school, I never used it professionally, just something I liked learning about. Once out of college I focused on Arts and Science, history, IR, etc. In university, McGill found math and physics suddenly boring. Out of nowhere. But that foundation always helped later.

Now rotors and pads. There are some things that you must never do, such as mixing pads and rotors not designed for each other. I tried ceramic pads, most are garbage. they work well on cheap cast iron rotors - hard pad with soft "steel." You never get the right crystalline film, proper friction, and pad material, just very abrasive. There are stories of CCB owners pairing whatever pad with their CCB and wrecking it in a day, as they failed to understand that resin CCB works by using the smooth ceramic coating as a heat transfer layer, the pads serving only as a conductor. Similarly, on Brembo steel, very HIGH-quality steel, very few pad combinations work well- Pagid and a few semi-metallic compounds work best. Brembo has also several variations- a regular less dusty pad, with less bite, and a "Euro Sport" version, dustier, but more bite. It is all application relative and, of course, size availability.

https://www.bridgestonetire.com/trea...lic-brake-pads

But say mixing ceramic pad with Brembo GT steel? I would never try. Ceramic pad with high-grade steel will resonate too much, maybe less dust but definitely poor braking. Especially wet or cold, mamma mia. You will hate them and wreck the rotors. There is quite a bit of R&D to determine which compound and what proportions work best with specific steel. ECS tuning and Turner are good bets to choose a spare set. And I always recommend having a spare front pad set, they are a consumable and an important safety component.

Similar to 3D CCBs- we are talking high tensile strength materials, and you want the pads to wear and rotors last forever while retaining braking in -40 to +700C temperature range. whatever you do, never experiment on an expensive brake system, even your OEM is quite pricey.

Dust-- well I dislike it, but if running steels braking power trumps all.

I will PM you three manufacturer POCs for CCBs. Again, i do not recommend them for your car due to its class of a vehicle and as an overkill. But if you keep using it like a sports car that is up for you to decide.

If it drives like one (or as close as it can even with such a high weight) I will use it as such. You'd be surprised how well BMW has tuned their suspension with the DHP on the G05. It handles well enough to easily scare your passengers in the corners but of course, it's not a sedan or coupe.

I'll have to look up the specs on my 21" set alongside the tire weights, if I went non-RFT (assuming they make a decent set) that will also save a bit of weight.

I've never used it professionally either outside some spreadsheets and other small projects, nothing like what you learn.

There are some people here who use a 'cermaic blend' pad which seems to produce good results. Whether or not they're good long term is anyone's guess, but I'm willing to give them a shot. Powerstop is one such company I see mentioned a lot alongside Carbotech. I'm willing to try either unless there's evidence to show they harm your rotors or cause a safety concern.

Have you heard or either company? I'll link them below for you.

https://ctbrakes.com/

https://www.powerstop.com/

[Musashi]

20 Jan 2020. Cold. -28C. Short drive to the local gym. 31C. Good feel, they warm up fast, way above OEM Brembos. Cannot wait for summer when the hotter they get the more they byte, the less they wear. Blue stuff= salt.

CCBs taking off. https://www.racingbrake.com/CarbonCe...com-s/7196.htm I still do not understand Brembo pricing its resis at 20,000$ per set it costing 1500$ for it, when 3D continuous are superior and a fraction of the cost..

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

There are some people here who use a 'cermaic blend' pad which seems to produce good results. Whether or not they're good long term is anyone's guess, but I'm willing to give them a shot. Powerstop is one such company I see mentioned a lot alongside Carbotech. I'm willing to try either unless there's evidence to show they harm your rotors or cause a safety concern.

Have you heard or either company? I'll link them below for you.

https://ctbrakes.com/

https://www.powerstop.com/

I definitely heard of them. Carbotech, was researching it until forums documented catastrophic fails on track. Poor heat tolerance, their 'ceramics' overheated. Problem is people use "ceramic" for a wide range of materials, when the whole assembled lot matters. Too much ceramic= poor heat dissipation. and so on. PAGID RSC uses ceramics and semi-metallics.

Performancebrakes is making some crazy sintered pads, they heal ceramic rotors on track. But quite pricey... And racing version they are 0.6 to 0.7. I will ask them for their CCB street pad...

A great youtube for you, after NRS convinced me yesterday to try their pads on my ceramics. NRS recently got fed up selling plated or pad materials to other companies, and them wanting to cut costs. The Engineering Explained video, whom you surely know of, produced this:

https://nrsbrakes.com/ee/
https://www.racingbrake.com/category-s/7637.htm
https://www.racingbrake.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=7416

Remarkably, in our sizes, NRS approximate RSC1-RSC2 specs at 1/3 of the price!

[Flying Ace]

Hey, been tracking your posts for a while now. What brand CCBs are you using? Is it RB?

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

Hey, been tracking your posts for a while now. What brand CCBs are you using? Is it RB?

Apology, COVID-19 has made me almost forgotten this topic. I still get no notifications... Eye of the eagle- indeed- no- because I went straight to their factory supplier! When I installed them in August 2018, RB had no such offering nor details on their website. The expansion of their offerings occurred mainly last year. RB has expanded its offerings and options but as a distributor. Their explanation pages are unintuitive, and are burred in their website at:

http://forums.racingbrake.com/forum/...carbon+ceramic

"Continuous fibre material is made from layers of Poly-Acrylic Nitrile (PAN) cloth, a carbon-fibre pre-cursor, that are laid over each other (typically in a 0°/90° layup) and needled together to produce a matrix structure. The final product generated by each process are similar, however the Continuous Fibre material benefits from higher strength and significantly higher thermal conductivity." (RB 2019).

RB thus gets its discs from Surface Transforms, which owns the same 3D Continuous Fibre Intellectual Property as LeMyth and CMCMAT. The same material scientists that started the preforms factory worked with all three. Preforms are likely made in the same locations on the planet, hence the 3000-5000$ average cost per two rotor set.

In the past two months, I have been shown a new CMCMAT 3D type. Basically, for 200$ more, they fuse two high purity silicon carbide layers to the 3D CCB- surface. From grey shiny (my pics) it then becomes mirror shiny. That pure silica carbide Transfer Film enhances heat transfer during red hot track events, and also reduced the wear on the matrix. COF remains 0.45 - 0.48 Presently, they have been unable to determine a dyno wear, as they simply do not wear out. Inside is a 3D matrix that outperforms multifold the 30,000$ BMW or PCCB 4 rotor set. There is no resin to boil, no weight to check obsessively, no delamination between the Transfer Film and the inner resin as you saw on Corvette, Porsche of BMW forums.

reference look, BMW or Porsche, see their shiny CCBs, they look identical. https://thebrakereport.com/brembo-un...-ceramic-disc/

Manufacture time:

3D CCB: 30-35 days
3D CCB+ CSiC TF: 37-42 days
Brembo resin: 3-4 days, automated, 300$ per rotor, 30,000$ installed...

I just cannot believe that Brembo still dares charge x3 to x5 for vastly inferior overpriced technology that does not even work well in the cold. Brembo is feeling the heat, with its DYATOM (for Ford), which is 5 layers of resin. There is an IP/patent reason they still are unable to use 3D preform. They also claim a better lower operating temperature:

https://www.brembo.com/en/company/ne...n-ceramic-disc
https://www.aftermarketnews.com/brem...-ford-mark-ii/

Well, i abused 3D CCB all the way to -40C and they are flawless, beyond any steel equivalent. I cannot speak for how DYATOM performs, normally resin CCBs are noisy and slippery, unresponsive if cold.

[Musashi]

graduate research limiting the amount of time driving,a s was COVID-19 slow-down. I did found some time to open up and check the set, cleanup etc. The results are as following:

- CCBs, 0.03 to 0.05mm wear, the most that i can measure. Taking the higher wear rate, 0.05mm, for 2-3 mm wear that is anywhere between 720,000 and 800,000 kms remaining.

- Pads- 15% wear, but since I intend to replace at 1/2 life, that is 30% or some 50,000 kms remaining. I have a spare, stand-by set with improved plates and compounds and anti-vibration shims and lugs.

- Hotter they get, the better they stick, the emptier the car must be or stuff flies. At all temperatures, from -40C to+50 asphalt, they exceed the Brembo OEM performance and behave more like a 6 piston.

[harkes]

So still only positive to say about these?

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by harkes

So still only positive to say about these?

Yes!!! COVID changed everything. I was thinking this winter, we had weeks non stop of -30 C, and the CCBs never failed to deliver in all conditions. And never squealed. I think I have maybe 800,000 kms left. Last winter saved me once from being Tboned when I saw the incoming car with my peripheral vision and the car stopped in 2 m.

I did try to get the rears CCB, but in my case the F30 rears have a very big HAND cable brake and it overlapped by 5 mm the center lug ring so cannot do rear CCBs. on most cars, esp Ms, this is not an issue as the rear rotors and the rotor hubs are big enough. A few months ago the closest BMW offered me 27,000$ CAD for the car at 110,000 kms. yes, 65,000 miles. Brakes plaid a role. Evidently I refused, had I done it I would have migrated the discs. They are utterly phenomenal. I am still on the original pads I got with them years ago, am swapping them soon at half life.

Since they are available with a variety of US performance brake distributors, I assume this as a non issue and that folks that needed them ordered and installed them.

[I.T. Guy]

I'm In!
How do I find out more info?

[MD-11DRIVER]

It looks like they are out of business, or at least shut their website down.

[Oizon]

Wow that was a long read indeed. I love how detailed the description of these breaks are. It's all well documented. Learned a lot of new things. BTW never knew that CCB is basically a 40 year old technology and that actual cost of making these is so low. Thanks a ton for this post, author.
I can see a lot of benefits of this new tech. I only wish it was cheaper. May be one day 😉