[JR5674]

Ghost... I appreciate what you did, providing knowledge to the community on your own dime. I was unsure which direction I was going to head w my ride, but numbers don’t lie. Your dynos show smoother power/torque and more of it. I’m gonna spend $200 for the jb+ Thank you for providing clear facts.

[N26Ghost]

That is an interesting topic. Can anyone provide proof of those claims? Naturally, manufacturer dynos are going to be a bit biased. Does anyone have any credible before/after dyno data to share for the bootmod3 flash? For me, bootmod3 is not an option as I can take no risks while my car is within the warranty period. The JB+ leaves no trace within the DME or anywhere else that it has been connected to the car, so is truly one of the only tuners you can quickly attach/detach for service.

[N26Ghost]

Originally Posted by IssaF32

Hmmmm best for dollar? I disagree. You gained about 20whp. When bootmod3 is 595$ and you will gain almost tripple and it's safer and it is more high tech

I mean...if it is 3x the cost, then it should produce at least 3x the horsepower to be considered a better deal.

[JR5674]

Remember, This wasn’t about jb4 or bootmod. This was strictly a reasearch endeavor conducted by an independent third party to show gains of the JB+ on a stock 2.0. This wasn’t about which is better, which is cheaper, etc... just facts about JB+ gains over stock. Everybody wins when someone invests time and money to provide the community with facts, not opinions. This isn’t any sort of comparison to JB4 or bootmod.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by JR5674

Remember, This wasn’t about jb4 or bootmod. This was strictly a reasearch endeavor conducted by an independent third party to show gains of the JB+ on a stock 2.0. This wasn’t about which is better, which is cheaper, etc... just facts about JB+ gains over stock. Everybody wins when someone invests time and money to provide the community with facts, not opinions. This isn’t any sort of comparison to JB4 or bootmod.

+1. Well said, totally agree. I'd love to go over this topic in another thread though, it's a good one for sure.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by N26Ghost

That is an interesting topic. Can anyone provide proof of those claims? Naturally, manufacturer dynos are going to be a bit biased. Does anyone have any credible before/after dyno data to share for the bootmod3 flash? For me, bootmod3 is not an option as I can take no risks while my car is within the warranty period. The JB+ leaves no trace within the DME or anywhere else that it has been connected to the car, so is truly one of the only tuners you can quickly attach/detach for service.

I don't have any hard facts, but I went from dinantroincs sport, which is essentially the same as JB+, to BM3 stage one and felt a very small difference in outright power. The real difference was in power delivery. Depends on whether that's something you are willing to pay for.

Regarding your warranty, a field service engineer will still be able to tell the car is tuned, by essentially pulling up datalogs and seeing that the car was running higher boost. Every tune is detectable by the dealer, by the right people with the right tools.

Either way, N26Ghost this is an awesome thread, thanks for taking the time to provide some really relevant info that was previously lacking.

[Steakpizza]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

I don't have any hard facts, but I went from dinantroincs sport, which is essentially the same as JB+, to BM3 stage one and felt a very small difference in outright power. The real difference was in power delivery. Depends on whether that's something you are willing to pay for.

Regarding your warranty, a field service engineer will still be able to tell the car is tuned, by essentially pulling up datalogs and seeing that the car was running higher boost. Every tune is detectable by the dealer, by the right people with the right tools.

Either way, N26Ghost this is an awesome thread, thanks for taking the time to provide some really relevant info that was previously lacking.

What's your general opinion of Dinaan and BM3?
I currently have a 320i (I know), and I have a JB4 on it. I hear BM3 is the way to go but I'm waiting for my warranty to be up. Anyway, how was Dinaan? Also, how is the power delivery compared to BM3?

[JR5674]

In conclusion, Based on facts provided by Ghost:

JB+ ($200, based on retail price) On a stock BMW 2.0L :

Fact: Adds approximately 25 horsepower and 25 ft/lbs of torque.

*The only comments added to this thread should be praise for Ghost. Nothing about JB4, bootmod, power delivery, colors of the rainbow, favorite toothpaste, lawn furniture, because they are all opinions until testing in a similar fashion to Ghosts’ method is conducted by an independent third party. Further comments with an agenda or buttdyno results, will differentiate the children from the adults, pay attention folks.

- “New Member” (been here since 2007)

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by JR5674

In conclusion, Based on facts provided by Ghost:

JB+ ($200, based on retail price) On a stock BMW 2.0L :

Fact: Adds approximately 25 horsepower and 25 ft/lbs of torque.

*The only comments added to this thread should be praise for Ghost. Nothing about JB4, bootmod, power delivery, colors of the rainbow, favorite toothpaste, lawn furniture, because they are all opinions until testing in a similar fashion to Ghosts’ method is conducted by an independent third party. Further comments with an agenda or buttdyno results, will differentiate the children from the adults, pay attention folks.

- “New Member” (been here since 2007)

I agree that N26Ghost deserves nothing but thanks for the data he provided and the time he spent to get it for us, which I said before. But there is nothing wrong with discussing butt dynos, power delivery etc. It's kinda thread jacking, but that's why I said it should be spoken about in a different thread. Also, not everything can be objective. Power delivery for example, cannot be measured on a dyno. You can see it on a graph, but it's best judged by feel. Try and tell me how you like a certain exhaust or tire setup objectively... you see my point. Opinions make the world go 'round my friend, and should be accounted for accordingly. That said, I agree that this thread specifically is talking about a dyno, which is objective, and we should stay on topic.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by Steakpizza

What's your general opinion of Dinaan and BM3?
I currently have a 320i (I know), and I have a JB4 on it. I hear BM3 is the way to go but I'm waiting for my warranty to be up. Anyway, how was Dinaan? Also, how is the power delivery compared to BM3?

I did a full write up on my experience with both as well as a comparison. That should answer all your questions .

Here's the thread: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1495692

Don't want to thread jack, so let's keep talking about N26Ghost and the work he did and the great thread he put together. IssaF32 if you want to talk about the advantages of different tunes over the other etc. start a new thread about it, don't take over this one.

[JR5674]

+1

[mrphotoman]

Originally Posted by IssaF32

Hmmmm best for dollar? I disagree. You gained about 20whp. When bootmod3 is 595$ and you will gain almost tripple and it's safer and it is more high tech

almost triple the price

how is it safer? data to back it up?

what is "high tech?"

[M2_MEDUSA]

Originally Posted by mrphotoman

almost triple the price

how is it safer? data to back it up?

what is "high tech?"

Do your own research. Also Jb isn't a flash it fights the signal isn't linear and your DME is constantly battling your piggyback. Go look how many engines JB4 and jb+ have bricked and look at bm3. Bootmod3 is a true flash not your DME constantly fighting it. Also I'm 305-310whp going for the world record tomorrow. And all this for 595$

[JR5674]

IssaF32= foot in mouth

Fighting/arguing with your own mind. You win! World Record! Yay! Best ever! Super Duper! You’ve earned 10 Schrute bucks!

How about take a breathe before you type. Think about everyone learning from each other, to gain knowledge as a whole community. This is better than that or mine is faster than yours is foolishness. The moral of this thread was a charitable deed Ghost provided for us to gain information. We all won because of him. Let’s work with each other, not against.

[Gen13 F36]

+1 N26Ghost. Well done.

As for other show us your dyno. (BM3, JB4, dinan etc).

Thanks for you for your time😁

[M2_MEDUSA]

Originally Posted by JR5674

IssaF32= foot in mouth

Fighting/arguing with your own mind. You win! World Record! Yay! Best ever! Super Duper! You've earned 10 Schrute bucks!

How about take a breathe before you type. Think about everyone learning from each other, to gain knowledge as a whole community. This is better than that or mine is faster than yours is foolishness. The moral of this thread was a charitable deed Ghost provided for us to gain information. We all won because of him. Let's work with each other, not against.

Don't care bout the record just highlighting the potential of bootmod3 I'm just not a fan of plugging a signal tripping piece of equipment in my car that my cars DME is gonna be fighting the entire time lol if that's you then sure spend 200$ all I'm saying is I had dinantronics sport+ before and it was a nice little mod but as soon as I realized what it really did I was on the hunt for a different product and sold it immediately.

[Fronttwelv]

Originally Posted by IssaF32

Do your own research. Also Jb isn't a flash it fights the signal isn't linear and your DME is constantly battling your piggyback. Go look how many engines JB4 and jb+ have bricked and look at bm3. Bootmod3 is a true flash not your DME constantly fighting it. Also I'm 305-310whp going for the world record tomorrow. And all this for 595$

You do realize 300whp is still low right?

Kudos to Ghost. He had me checking out this thread daily hoping there was an early trip to the dyno! FWIW I have a JB4 on map 1 and am thrilled with it. I've had 3 GTi's with flash tunes and they aren't that much different. Not sure what you mean by "more tech" either Issa. Sounds like you don't know either?

[JR5674]

Gosh... IssaF32, you don’t seem to understand this thread. What you are a “fan” is completely irrelevant. That fact that you like “high tech” products more than those without “high tech” tells everybody in this forum your ability to contribute to this knowledge base. Ghost provided impartial undisputed facts about the JB+. If you strongly believe in JB4 or bootmod, I would plead with you to dyno your vehicle without a piggyback, flash, tune, etc. Then install the piggyback, flash, tune, etc and dyno again. Post the dynos. That would help not only you, but everybody. Ghost motivated me to try the JB+ because the of facts he provided. However, it doesn’t matter what I do to my 428, my wife will smoke me in her M5. I don’t even have fastest car in my own garage, much less this forum. I’ve been here for 11 years to learn from people, I would encourage you to do the same. Don’t criticize products you don’t like because others may feel differently. Again, this community wins together by gaining knowledge (hard indisputable facts) from its members.

[rjd_F30]

Well since it doesn't look like we'll be starting another thread I'll chime in. Objectively, flash tunes have the ability to manipulate more variables than a piggyback, thus having a more complete sense of control over the DME. This allows them to adjust timing, fueling and boost, rather than just boost. In other words, the added boost is compensated for by putting in timing and fuel, something a piggyback can't do. This does make flash tunes a bit safer for the car as opposed to piggybacks, only because they have more control over all engine parameters. JB+ is still an awesome product for the price and what it is in general. For $200 and 5 minutes of install time, you immediately gain 30 whp/wtq with very few to no compromises. What IssaF32 means by high tech is that bootmod3 not only gives you a tune, but it allows you to datalog, scan for codes, customize cold start rpm, get rid of catless CELs and other things. A clear advantage to the flash tunes, but, you pay an extra $400 dollars. Now, although there are few if any dynos to back this up, the power level difference between the boost controllers (JB+, Dinan sport) and BM3 stage one is minimal if even existent at all. You're paying for the more advanced tune and other features that I listed above.

I absolutely agree with JR5674, that we're all here to learn from each other. For that reason, opinionated conversations like these are really excellent, but we have to remember to present our opinions in an educational tone, rather than an argumentative one.

[JR5674]

“although there are few if any dynos to back this up”

So all of the different ‘elements’ of the engine controlled by a ‘tune’ might just be that. The ability to control those elements. Keep in mind, user ability to control those ‘elements’ does not mean the performance is significantly increased. One way to prove the advantages of controlling all elements of the engine would be a third party dyno, before tune and after tune installed. Right now we know through facts, “tricking the sensors” adds 25-30 hp & 25-30 ft/lbs torque. Right we know “tunes” allow the user to “control more elements of the engine”, but have no clue as to added hp & torque in tunes.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by JR5674

“although there are few if any dynos to back this up”

So all of the different ‘elements’ of the engine controlled by a ‘tune’ might just be that. The ability to control those elements. Keep in mind, user ability to control those ‘elements’ does not mean the performance is significantly increased. One way to prove the advantages of controlling all elements of the engine would be a third party dyno, before tune and after tune installed. Right now we know through facts, “tricking the sensors” adds 25-30 hp & 25-30 ft/lbs torque. Right we know “tunes” allow the user to “control more elements of the engine”, but have no clue as to added hp & torque in tunes.

You must've missed my point. I said that the flash tune provide little to no increase in power over the piggyback in stage one applications. The benefit of the ability to manipulate more variables is reliability not power.

[JR5674]

Rjdnyy224,

You cannot have a point without facts, nor can I.

You, yourself said it.... “although there are few if any dynos to back this up”

There is no independent dyno, without an agenda to show a “complete level 1,2,3,4 flash tune” makes similar power to a piggyback. It could make LESS, MORE, OR THE SAME. Nobody has reasonable independent before and after facts. In regards to “non-power” elements, there is no proof working your cooling system and fans harder that it’s ‘more reliable’ for the vehicle. Whenever you work any element more intensely than its intended to be used, bad things ‘can’ happen. Literally any modification from stock ‘can’ cause bad things to happen. Spreads facts, not opinions.

“although there are few if any dynos to back this up”