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      03-20-2019, 04:35 AM   #23
pmgreenwood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroFx View Post
If people want ride quality get a 5 series or maybe an Audi.

Dynamic driving comes at a cost.

If you ever get in to an M3/4 you will find out what harsh feels like
My favourite car to date was an E39 528i 5 series I kept 11 years and 100k miles. That 5 series was narrower than an F30 never mind a G20 or G30, The latter is just too big for my garage and most UK parking places. The E39 5 series had both a good ride and great handling. There is a point where a suspension can be made so hard that although it handles brilliantly at speed on smooth tarmac, in practice on UK roads the car loses more grip through skipping on bumps etc that it is a backwards step.

The point I am making about ride is that by going down one route and not giving full optionality of suspension and wheel size, BMW is restricting their sales and could make themselves ultimately less viable because of that.

In practice, I decided that because I regularly have to drive on flooded country roads, I need a car with a better wading depth than a 3 series. Do not like x1 x2 blown up minis. X3 just now become too big. So I have a Macan S with air suspension currently built and en route to the dealer. Good ride and best handling Midsize SUV.

Last edited by pmgreenwood; 03-20-2019 at 05:37 AM..
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      03-20-2019, 05:27 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by pmgreenwood View Post
My favourite car to date was an E39 528i 5 series I kept 11 years and 100k miles. That 5 series was narrower than an F30 never mind a G20 or G30, The latter is just too big for my garage and most UK parking places.

The point I am making about ride is that by going down one route and not giving full optionality of suspension and wheel size, BMW is restricting their sales and could make themselves ultimately less viable because of that.

In practice, I decided that because I regularly have to drive on flooded country roads, I need a car with a better wading depth than a 3 series. Do not like x1 x2 blown up minis. X3 just now become too big. So I have a Macan S with air suspension currently built and en route to the dealer. Good ride and best handling Midsize SUV.
Ive not seen how BMW are handling the options on the 3 as i only ever buy the coupe variants.

Adaptive imo should be standard as its much better than stock.

I dont know what ill get next. Mine has 62k on it now and i could run it maybe another year or so.

Cars are getting more expensive to buy and run than ever and car allowances are worse than i have ever known. Makes choosing what to buy more difficult than ever.
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      03-20-2019, 05:40 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroFx View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmgreenwood View Post
My favourite car to date was an E39 528i 5 series I kept 11 years and 100k miles. That 5 series was narrower than an F30 never mind a G20 or G30, The latter is just too big for my garage and most UK parking places.

The point I am making about ride is that by going down one route and not giving full optionality of suspension and wheel size, BMW is restricting their sales and could make themselves ultimately less viable because of that.

In practice, I decided that because I regularly have to drive on flooded country roads, I need a car with a better wading depth than a 3 series. Do not like x1 x2 blown up minis. X3 just now become too big. So I have a Macan S with air suspension currently built and en route to the dealer. Good ride and best handling Midsize SUV.
Ive not seen how BMW are handling the options on the 3 as i only ever buy the coupe variants.

Adaptive imo should be standard as its much better than stock.

I dont know what ill get next. Mine has 62k on it now and i could run it maybe another year or so.

Cars are getting more expensive to buy and run than ever and car allowances are worse than i have ever known. Makes choosing what to buy more difficult than ever.
My 440i GC was over £51k list price. Next time around I may not get a premium car, having had 5 BMWs in a row. I'm retired now and do less than 10k miles pa., half what I used to do, and having a decent car is less important, which is not how I was expecting to feel
I test drove a new petrol Focus a few months back whilst our Fiesta was in for a service and thought it was brilliant to drive, particularly for the money. When I told my wife, she suggested I take a trip to the GP
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Owned: 440i GC LCI with MPPSK, F31 330D M Sport with MPPK, F11 530D SE, F11 520D SE, E61 530D M Sport, E36 325i plus many MB's, Audi's & Volvo's
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      03-20-2019, 06:05 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TodmordenLad View Post
My 440i GC was over £51k list price. Next time around I may not get a premium car, having had 5 BMWs in a row. I'm retired now and do less than 10k miles pa., half what I used to do, and having a decent car is less important, which is not how I was expecting to feel
I test drove a new petrol Focus a few months back whilst our Fiesta was in for a service and thought it was brilliant to drive, particularly for the money. When I told my wife, she suggested I take a trip to the GP
Similar dilemma for me, looks like replacing the 535i is going to cost an arm and a leg. I'm now at less than 8k miles a year in the 535i.

I've thought Ford (Focus), as we had a Ford dealer locally. That has changed, no longer a Ford dealer, so every marque and dealer is now at least 60 miles away.

My grandsons reckon I should get the new Fiesta ST. Need to check out the suspension options, seems there is something a bit different in the design to help ride quality and give a bit more compliance.
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      03-20-2019, 06:12 AM   #27
pmgreenwood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TodmordenLad View Post
My 440i GC was over £51k list price. Next time around I may not get a premium car, having had 5 BMWs in a row. I'm retired now and do less than 10k miles pa., half what I used to do, and having a decent car is less important, which is not how I was expecting to feel
I test drove a new petrol Focus a few months back whilst our Fiesta was in for a service and thought it was brilliant to drive, particularly for the money. When I told my wife, she suggested I take a trip to the GP
I am also retired. Alot depends on what you use a car for. I probably take about 6 or 7 week long UK holidays throughout the UK each summer. In winter once a fortnight I travel between Sussex and Dorset. The rest is local trips i.e. supermarket. With my 320D which suited the prior trips, I tried to plan short trips so they were combined and the car at least doing 15 miles half of which warm.

I am the only driver at home. Despite that I am considering buying a small EV like a Renault Zoe (i3 a bit too wide) for the short trips and when I need to get to Brighton and Portsmouth on days Southern rail on strike and when high CO2 ICE cars likely to be banned from the centre of cities. as the Macan will do about 20 mpg when cold not suited to such trips.
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      03-20-2019, 06:16 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by pmgreenwood View Post
And undoubtedly, the best ride of all would be with adaptive plus 17" never mind 18" wheels, both available on F30 but not G20
Ah, 17" wheels. That's what I'm running as winter wheels on my 5-series. Definitely add to the ride quality over poor road surfaces, even on run-flats.

We live in an age where unless you run 20" wheels on a 5-series, "doesn't look right". Now it looks like the 3-series is going the same way. Crazy, many are willing to give up the best ride/handling balance for looks.

How did we mange on 13" & 14" wheels years ago? Then I suppose we had cars like the Peugeot 405 MI16 which had a ride and handling balance which was praised, and it worked on UK roads.
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      03-20-2019, 07:48 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroFx View Post
Dynamic driving comes at a cost.

If you ever get in to an M3/4 you will find out what harsh feels like
This where I just don't agree!

I know you don't like my Lotus example and to be fair their cars are at the more extreme end of the spectrum; however, they demonstrate that good handling and a good ride with passive suspension are not mutually exclusive.

However, if you want an example of more of a daily driver that had acceptable ride quality allied to good handling I'd venture to offer my old E46 M3 CS. Now ok, the ride wasn't as soft as my current F31 around town but it was certainly less harsh and crashy than the E92 335i which followed it (for reference both were fitted with 19" wheels and conventional tyres). I covered well over 60k miles in the four and a bit years I had the M3 and, while the ride was firm, I never once considered it a problem; in actual fact, I remember bringing my 70 year-old mother-in-law and her cousin back from the Lake District and the two of them commenting on what a comfortable ride the car had! I suspect what they were appreciating was that the car had good body control - and didn't throw passengers around over dips and crests - but equally it didn't crash in and out of potholes and the like either. I do of course accept that to some degree what constitutes a comfortable ride is a matter of taste and personal preference but for me the set-up of the CS was absolutely fine for road use without any need for adaptive suspension.

I'd also add that I can't see how the relatively cheap adaptive system fitted to F3x's is likely to be a game changer for those cars; it certainly isn't on my F31 and to get a truly decent adaptive system I suspect you need to go for something more akin to the adaptive drive on the 5-series (which is a different kettle of fish altogether). Given a choice between the £500 adaptive option fitted to otherwise standard F3x suspension and a good passive system (ACS/Birds or similar) I'd take the latter every time.

ETA: And actually, don't the later (apparently harsh) M3's and M4's have adaptive as standard?!
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      03-20-2019, 01:18 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by JNW1 View Post
This where I just don't agree!

I know you don't like my Lotus example and to be fair their cars are at the more extreme end of the spectrum; however, they demonstrate that good handling and a good ride with passive suspension are not mutually exclusive.

However, if you want an example of more of a daily driver that had acceptable ride quality allied to good handling I'd venture to offer my old E46 M3 CS. Now ok, the ride wasn't as soft as my current F31 around town but it was certainly less harsh and crashy than the E92 335i which followed it (for reference both were fitted with 19" wheels and conventional tyres). I covered well over 60k miles in the four and a bit years I had the M3 and, while the ride was firm, I never once considered it a problem; in actual fact, I remember bringing my 70 year-old mother-in-law and her cousin back from the Lake District and the two of them commenting on what a comfortable ride the car had! I suspect what they were appreciating was that the car had good body control - and didn't throw passengers around over dips and crests - but equally it didn't crash in and out of potholes and the like either. I do of course accept that to some degree what constitutes a comfortable ride is a matter of taste and personal preference but for me the set-up of the CS was absolutely fine for road use without any need for adaptive suspension.

I'd also add that I can't see how the relatively cheap adaptive system fitted to F3x's is likely to be a game changer for those cars; it certainly isn't on my F31 and to get a truly decent adaptive system I suspect you need to go for something more akin to the adaptive drive on the 5-series (which is a different kettle of fish altogether). Given a choice between the £500 adaptive option fitted to otherwise standard F3x suspension and a good passive system (ACS/Birds or similar) I'd take the latter every time.

ETA: And actually, don't the later (apparently harsh) M3's and M4's have adaptive as standard?!
Yes but the M3 has Harsh, Harsher & Back Pain setting it felt like when i last went in one. Its not crashy but its very firm
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      03-20-2019, 02:04 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroFx View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNW1 View Post
ETA: And actually, don't the later (apparently harsh) M3's and M4's have adaptive as standard?!
Yes but the M3 has Harsh, Harsher & Back Pain setting it felt like when i last went in one. Its not crashy but its very firm
Only driven an M4 on a track which clearly isn't representative of road use; however, my cousin has an M4 CP as a weekend/fun car and he's never complained about a harsh, over-firm, ride (his reference point as a daily driver is an Octavia VRs).

In any event, if the F8x M3/M4 is indeed as bad as you say it represents a step backwards from my (passive!) E46; that wasn't harsh and, while the ride was firm, it wasn't what I'd describe as very firm - as a for instance, it rode way better than my other half's current car (an A1 Black Edition).
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      03-20-2019, 02:28 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TodmordenLad View Post
My 440i GC was over £51k list price. Next time around I may not get a premium car, having had 5 BMWs in a row. I'm retired now and do less than 10k miles pa., half what I used to do, and having a decent car is less important, which is not how I was expecting to feel
I test drove a new petrol Focus a few months back whilst our Fiesta was in for a service and thought it was brilliant to drive, particularly for the money. When I told my wife, she suggested I take a trip to the GP
A car isn’t just about the ride and handling it’s also about the seats.
I’ve been retired for over 8 years and was looking to change my 328i for well
over a year.
The number of cars I’ve driven that were let down by the quality of their seats
is a real eye opener. For example, an ex demo Kia Stinger was a fabulous buy but the comfort of the seats was not a patch on BMW’s sport seats.
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      03-20-2019, 03:44 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Isow View Post
A car isn’t just about the ride and handling it’s also about the seats.
I’ve been retired for over 8 years and was looking to change my 328i for well
over a year.
The number of cars I’ve driven that were let down by the quality of their seats
is a real eye opener. For example, an ex demo Kia Stinger was a fabulous buy but the comfort of the seats was not a patch on BMW’s sport seats.
That's very true, it doesn't matter how good a car's chassis is, if you find the seats uncomfortable you won't be comfortable, end of story!

Have to say one of the best seats I've sat in recently was in the Volvo V90 R-Design I had as a courtesy car while mine was in for the dreaded EGR recall. When I got back in mine the sports seats in my F31 actually felt almost SE like such was the comparative lack of lateral support; however, the downside was you almost had to climb around the bolsters in the Volvo to get in and out which probably won't suit everyone!
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