[isleaiw1]

Interesting that every review of the new model (generally and not the M model) are saying how much better the new version is compared to the old one.

I suspect that, despite the looks, it will sell well. If the prices are right, I'd consider the M135i - great gearbox, the best infotainment interface as Audi move to touchscreens, good performance and AWD. It might not be 6 cylinders and rwd but for most people, most of the time, it will be a great option...

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Interesting that every review of the new model (generally and not the M model) are saying how much better the new version is compared to the old one.

I suspect that, despite the looks, it will sell well. If the prices are right, I'd consider the M135i - great gearbox, the best infotainment interface as Audi move to touchscreens, good performance and AWD. It might not be 6 cylinders and rwd but for most people, most of the time, it will be a great option...

I agree it might be ok as an all rounder, but how do you know the gearbox is great?!

[JD6]

I have always found the handling of the F20 M135i (not driven an M140i) to be its key downside. Perhaps it's not too surprising having a heavy 6 cylinder engine in such a small car. The old M135i reminds me to some extent of the Golf VR6 and Golf V6 4 Motion - the great engine being somewhat let down by lack of sharpness in handling.

So while I'm not keen on the looks of either the new or old 1 Series, perhaps the improved handling of the new M135i from its lighter engine might win me over, although giving up a 6 cylinder engine to get it is quite a price to pay. Not keen on the idea that they have gone for the Aisin box to replace the superb ZF.

I wonder if they will introduce a faster version at some point, a new M140i, still with 4 cylinders, but with perhaps 350bhp?

[TouringPleb]

I suspect there's a certain amount of rear wheel drive/6 cylinder snobbery going on here.

Overwhelming comment seems to be (and not just on here but on the Facebook pages of all the car magazines) is that it's not rear wheel drive or 6 cylinder anymore which must be a bad thing. I wonder how many people commenting actually have a 140i or have driven one? How many reviews have we read on here where people have said on a bumpy road or in the wet they just can't put all the power down? Why are people paying to have the suspension 'fixed' by Birds/AC Schnitzer etc if it's that wonderful?

Then there's the comments about how 140i owners won't want to trade up and that they are all enthusiasts. Believe me they aren't. There's plenty of people at work who have them. One woman I spoke to in the car park had no idea it was a 3 litre engine. She went into a dealership to get a 120i and walked out with a 140i because of the finance offer. Another just wanted the top of the range model regardless of what it was. A bloke who claimed he was a petrol head had no idea when he bought it that it was real wheel drive. I suspect this reflects the vast majority of owners.

For most people I think it comes down to tax if it's a company car (hence so many 116d and 118d on the roads), monthly payments on a PCP and whether they can get two suitcases in the boot, all the paraphernalia which goes with having kids in the boot and having the right badge on the bonnet/boot. How many cylinders or which wheels are driving is probably well down their list.

It seems to me every new model BMW bring out there's a massive outcry from 'enthusiasts' that it's not this anymore or not that. Times change, the market changes and legislation changes. Remember the outcry when the first Bangle models came out, when the 1 series came out people said they shouldn't be building anything lessthan a 3. And yet sales go up and up. We criticise Audi for being dull and boring, but when BMW do different we still criticise.

Personally I'm holding judgement until I can see the new 1 in the metal and can take it for a test drive.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

I suspect there's a certain amount of rear wheel drive/6 cylinder snobbery going on here.

Overwhelming comment seems to be (and not just on here but on the Facebook pages of all the car magazines) is that it's not rear wheel drive or 6 cylinder anymore which must be a bad thing. I wonder how many people commenting actually have a 140i or have driven one? How many reviews have we read on here where people have said on a bumpy road or in the wet they just can't put all the power down? Why are people paying to have the suspension 'fixed' by Birds/AC Schnitzer etc if it's that wonderful?

Then there's the comments about how 140i owners won't want to trade up and that they are all enthusiasts. Believe me they aren't. There's plenty of people at work who have them. One woman I spoke to in the car park had no idea it was a 3 litre engine. She went into a dealership to get a 120i and walked out with a 140i because of the finance offer. Another just wanted the top of the range model regardless of what it was. A bloke who claimed he was a petrol head had no idea when he bought it that it was real wheel drive. I suspect this reflects the vast majority of owners.

For most people I think it comes down to tax if it's a company car (hence so many 116d and 118d on the roads), monthly payments on a PCP and whether they can get two suitcases in the boot, all the paraphernalia which goes with having kids in the boot and having the right badge on the bonnet/boot. How many cylinders or which wheels are driving is probably well down their list.

It seems to me every new model BMW bring out there's a massive outcry from 'enthusiasts' that it's not this anymore or not that. Times change, the market changes and legislation changes. Remember the outcry when the first Bangle models came out, when the 1 series came out people said they shouldn't be building anything lessthan a 3. And yet sales go up and up. We criticise Audi for being dull and boring, but when BMW do different we still criticise.

Personally I'm holding judgement until I can see the new 1 in the metal and can it for a test drive.

True, we'll all have to accept downsizing soon, in fact all cars will have zero cylinders in the not too distant future!

The worst thing about the new 1 series for me is that butt ugly front end though. Although it looks like the easy solution to that will be to buy the 2 series GC instead, much nicer grilles and no silly smiling bumper:

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1425466

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

I suspect there's a certain amount of rear wheel drive/6 cylinder snobbery going on here.

Overwhelming comment seems to be (and not just on here but on the Facebook pages of all the car magazines) is that it's not rear wheel drive or 6 cylinder anymore which must be a bad thing. I wonder how many people commenting actually have a 140i or have driven one? How many reviews have we read on here where people have said on a bumpy road or in the wet they just can't put all the power down? Why are people paying to have the suspension 'fixed' by Birds/AC Schnitzer etc if it's that wonderful?

Then there's the comments about how 140i owners won't want to trade up and that they are all enthusiasts. Believe me they aren't. There's plenty of people at work who have them. One woman I spoke to in the car park had no idea it was a 3 litre engine. She went into a dealership to get a 120i and walked out with a 140i because of the finance offer. Another just wanted the top of the range model regardless of what it was. A bloke who claimed he was a petrol head had no idea when he bought it that it was real wheel drive. I suspect this reflects the vast majority of owners.

For most people I think it comes down to tax if it's a company car (hence so many 116d and 118d on the roads), monthly payments on a PCP and whether they can get two suitcases in the boot, all the paraphernalia which goes with having kids in the boot and having the right badge on the bonnet/boot. How many cylinders or which wheels are driving is probably well down their list.

It seems to me every new model BMW bring out there's a massive outcry from 'enthusiasts' that it's not this anymore or not that. Times change, the market changes and legislation changes. Remember the outcry when the first Bangle models came out, when the 1 series came out people said they shouldn't be building anything lessthan a 3. And yet sales go up and up. We criticise Audi for being dull and boring, but when BMW do different we still criticise.

Personally I'm holding judgement until I can see the new 1 in the metal and can take it for a test drive.

Rear wheel drive/6 cylinder snobbery going on here?? What a slur, sir!!?
You're right, of course
Autocar's summary takes a not dissimilar stance:

Should I buy one?
Now this is where it gets a bit tricky. Ignore the badge and the rear-wheel-drive heritage and the M135i makes a strong case for itself as a fast and engaging four-wheel-drive hot hatch that’s also refined, well finished, practical and only a few hundred quid more than a Volkswagen Golf R. We’re not entirely sold on the looks, but the better-packaged, roomier interior is arguably a price worth paying for the slightly ungainly styling.
As a driver’s car, it’s more playful and agile than a Mercedes-AMG and, for most of the time, than the old M140i. Yet good though it is, it doesn’t feel like we’ve come to expect fast BMWs should. The purity of the old car’s layout and its natural balance are replaced by a sense of artificially heightened agility that, you suspect, has been created to distract from the fundamental change in philosophy under the skin.
This isn’t really such an issue in the cooking versions, but as a car aimed at enthusiasts, it’s more of a challenge. And while you can understand the business case for what BMW has done, you can’t escape a certain sadness that without rear drive and, in the case of the M140i, a creamy six-cylinder motor, the 1 Series is no longer the unique offering it was. Overall, the M135i is a better car for most of the time than its predecessor, but it’s not a better fast BMW.

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by teaston

True, we'll all have to accept downsizing soon, in fact all cars will have zero cylinders in the not too distant future!

The worst thing about the new 1 series for me is that butt ugly front end though. Although it looks like the easy solution to that will be to buy the 2 series GC instead, much nicer grilles and no silly smiling bumper:

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1425466

Is there a 300+ bhp version of the 2GC on the cards?

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

Is there a 300+ bhp version of the 2GC on the cards?

Isn't it going to get the same engine and x drive package from the M135i?

[teaston]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

Is there a 300+ bhp version of the 2GC on the cards?

Yes, confirmed there will be an F44 2GC M235i Xdrive, exactly the same drivetrain and platform as the 1 series.

The G42 2 Coupe will be on the 3 series RWD platform and retain 6 pot petrol engine though, and no doubt be called the M240i.

[JustChris]

The car wow was interesting.

IMO only the interior and actually exhaust sound seen better in the new car.

The transverse mounting front of the axle and almost worse still the Asin gearbox is a terrible step backwards and cost cutting.

Sad times.

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by JustChris

The car wow was interesting.

IMO only the interior and actually exhaust sound seen better in the new car.

The transverse mounting front of the axle and almost worse still the Asin gearbox is a terrible step backwards and cost cutting.

Sad times.

Ref. your point about engine position, gearbox and cost saving, it's basically a Mini. Nothing wrong with Minis of course but they're a separate brand for a reason
If I was in the market for a 2L AWD hot hatch, I might be looking elsewhere

[rokut]

Having made the switch from S4 to A35 I feel the loss of the 2 cylinders BUT overall the A35 is the more engaging and fun proposition with a huge step in interior tech and system. I think the same is likely to be the general view of 140i to 135i once the pain of the engine switch has tailed off.

If you can live with the looks of the 135i I think it will no doubt fit many people's requirements of being enough of a drivers car when you want it to be, alongside a decent people mover/ place to be during the other 90% of the time.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I agree it might be ok as an all rounder, but how do you know the gearbox is great?!

Ah, stupidly assumed 8 speed = zf - but of course, it’s not. I have driven a Mini Cooper S auto so assume it’s the same as that... not ZF good but not Volvo bad either...

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

Ref. your point about engine position, gearbox and cost saving, it's basically a Mini. Nothing wrong with Minis of course but they're a separate brand for a reason
If I was in the market for a 2L AWD hot hatch, I might be looking elsewhere

Yes indeed, its the chassis our F39 is built on too. I have to say for D2D and 0-8/10 driving no bother at all. Also have I ever bothered with 10/10 driving on the 2.0D X2 either...no chance!

[ciscopete822]

Originally Posted by JustChris

The car wow was interesting.

IMO only the interior and actually exhaust sound seen better in the new car.

The transverse mounting front of the axle and almost worse still the Asin gearbox is a terrible step backwards and cost cutting.

Sad times.

New gearbox questionable , digital cockpit shit , looks ok-ish (IMO) , grille shit

what do you do in that case? You get the old one

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by ciscopete822

New gearbox questionable , digital cockpit shit , looks ok-ish (IMO) , grille shit

what do you do in that case? You get the old one

Attachment 2101744

so just which cars do you have now...?

[ciscopete822]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

so just which cars do you have now...?

in UK M140 , Golf R and some other toys. Nothing too special
Signature is out of date. Golf R still my fav

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by ciscopete822

in UK M140 , Golf R and some other toys. Nothing too special
Signature is out of date. Golf R still my fav

I'd get rid of a couple and buy a house with a better drive, and just park one or two cars less on it.

[TaranF32]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

I suspect there's a certain amount of rear wheel drive/6 cylinder snobbery going on here.

Personally I'm holding judgement until I can see the new 1 in the metal and can take it for a test drive.

I suppose that is fair, whenever BMW release a new model, us enthusiast always cause an uproar with how they've ruined the brands heritage, I mean there was uproar about the F30's grilles being part of the headlights, and the rebranding from 3 Series Coupe to 4 Series was a bit controversial to begin with but now nobody bats an eyelid.

I do think it's a real shame that they've got rid of the rwd though, agree that most people don't even know if their car is fwd/rwd/4wd but some will at least say that a BMW drives nicer than a Merc/Audi, even if they don't know the technical details.

Totally agree that the deciding test is going to be seeing the car in the flesh and driving it, but at the moment, on paper at least, I like the Mercedes A class more. That's coming from a BMW fanboy as well haha

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I'd get rid of a couple and buy a house with a better drive, and just park one or two cars less on it.

A driveway like that keeps you down at the gym

That's some hothatch collection CP, how so?

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Ah, stupidly assumed 8 speed = zf - but of course, it’s not. I have driven a Mini Cooper S auto so assume it’s the same as that... not ZF good but not Volvo bad either...

I thought the auto in the new M135i was the 8 speed ZF found in various other BMW models?!

Having said that Mrs JNW1 has recently taken delivery of a new Mini Cooper S with the 7-speed DCT and that also seems pretty good to me. What it will be like when it gets to the 70k miles my car's done remains to be seen but comparing the two at the moment I'd say the change quality in the Mini is at least a match for that in mine....

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by JNW1

I thought the auto in the new M135i was the 8 speed ZF found in various other BMW models?!

Having said that Mrs JNW1 has recently taken delivery of a new Mini Cooper S with the 7-speed DCT and that also seems pretty good to me. What it will be like when it gets to the 70k miles my car's done remains to be seen but comparing the two at the moment I'd say the change quality in the Mini is at least a match for that in mine....

Its neither the ZF 8 speed torque convertor, nor the 7 speed DCT, its an 8 seed Asin Torque convertor box I believe.