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      09-18-2018, 06:13 PM   #23
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Well I have M adaptive suspension and was trolling this thread because I need to lower my car more now that I put the 437 wheels on. Looks like I'll just be dealing with the height for now until I can afford the KW's. I'd rather spend a little more and be able to turn a profit off of my undamaged M adaptive suspension then have to spend money twice and have a set of junk m adaptive shocks.
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      09-24-2018, 08:35 PM   #24
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I would love to hear more results on paring a mild spring with the factory electronic dampers. I have a 2015 M-Sport with EDC and am seriously considering H&R sports. I feel like they're mild enough to not be harmful. I also have not seen enough negative results from a setup such as this. Has anyone actually experienced failed electronic dampers paired with a mild spring? Trying to compile results.
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      09-24-2018, 10:32 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastActionJax View Post
Well I have M adaptive suspension and was trolling this thread because I need to lower my car more now that I put the 437 wheels on. Looks like I'll just be dealing with the height for now until I can afford the KW's. I'd rather spend a little more and be able to turn a profit off of my undamaged M adaptive suspension then have to spend money twice and have a set of junk m adaptive shocks.
I知 on the same boat as you bud. 437m wheels on my f36 with EDC. I ended pulling the trigger on KW V2. Put nice dent in my wallet, $1900. None of the shops in Cali had them in stock, so I gotta wait 3+ weeks for it to arrive from Germany.... I値l post back when it gets done.
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      09-24-2018, 10:46 PM   #26
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I have the Dinan springs + bump stops combo on adaptive suspension and I'm pretty happy with it. With the front lip, it is a bit low so you have to be careful but it's nothing crazy low. Without the front lip there is not problem at all.

I like the overall look and feeling. Personally, I wouldn't pay more to get rid of the adaptive suspension... I really like how the car handle the curve and the look it perfect for me
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      09-25-2018, 08:14 AM   #27
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I have ACS springs + Dinan Shockware on my F34 (xDrive). Very pleased with the combination.
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      09-25-2018, 11:46 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpascua View Post
I知 on the same boat as you bud. 437m wheels on my f36 with EDC. I ended pulling the trigger on KW V2. Put nice dent in my wallet, $1900. None of the shops in Cali had them in stock, so I gotta wait 3+ weeks for it to arrive from Germany.... I値l post back when it gets done.
Thanks man I appreciate that and look forward to seeing them installed. The thing I think sucks the most about M adaptive is the fact we have to spend the 400 extra bucks on the EDC delete with suspension kits.
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      09-27-2018, 08:25 PM   #29
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I chose to go with ACS springs on my adaptive dampers (335i xDrive). I'm also about to install 437M replica wheels (tires are getting mounted in a few days). I was against the adaptive dampers when I was car hunting, but got such a good deal on a CPO that had it, so I went with it. Turns out, it rides pretty good and I liked it more than I thought it would. Sure it is a bit float in comfort, but very controlled/firm if not downright harsh in sport sometimes. I figure the ACS would be a mild enough spring rate increase and drop that it won't blow out the dampers super fast. Once they get too loose say around 80k+ miles (at 40k currently) I might pick up KW Street Comfort. I had KW V1's on an E92 335i xDrive for 3 years and liked them. Just wasn't willing to plunk down the money currently.

After putting on the ACS springs I noticed basically no change in ride comfort, I honestly can't tell. I mean it still floats on the big bumps on the highway and still very firm in sport. It just isn't a big enough difference to jump out and say, "hey I changed my suspension". However, it's very noticeable visually. Granted I didn't get the sweet look of the aggressively lowered H&R springs or coils, but it looks more like a factory RWD car. If you want to ballpark the gap difference, before I could stick 5 fingers (fist) between my tire and front fender. Now I can only fit about 3 fingers in the gap.

This was as close of a photo angle as I could find/match with a few month prior photo I had on my phone. The actual drop was about 5/8" front and 3/8" rear or 16mm and 10mm respectively. ACS advertises 20-25mm F/R for their 335i xDrive SKU and reduced lowering 5-15mm for "M-Technik" cars. Not sure if they mean M-Adaptive or M-Sport RWD suspension cars. Would be odd for them to list that on an xDrive spring SKU though It's still eons better than before.



And below is a couple other after photos after a nice coat of wax.



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      12-12-2018, 06:47 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strobe89 View Post
The actual drop was about 5/8" front and 3/8" rear or 16mm and 10mm respectively. ACS advertises 20-25mm F/R for their 335i xDrive SKU
Strobe, did your suspension ever settle after this install? Prior to the installation, your OEM suspension seemed oddly high (certainly higher than my F30 335i xDrive with adaptive suspension which definitely does NOT have a fist worth of gap) and the drop from the ACS springs seemed milder than most.

So now I'm curious if it ever settled down any lower, and what your currents thoughts are regarding the aesthetics, performance, stiffness vs comfort, etc.
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      12-12-2018, 04:36 PM   #31
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I have H&R sport springs on my 2018 340i with adaptive suspension and it's been great so far. I want to say i have about 2,000 miles on it.... rides smooth and helped the car in every way as far as speed/stability and cornering. It's still comfortable in comfort mode almost like the oem.
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      12-30-2018, 02:12 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LYTSOUT View Post
Strobe, did your suspension ever settle after this install? Prior to the installation, your OEM suspension seemed oddly high (certainly higher than my F30 335i xDrive with adaptive suspension which definitely does NOT have a fist worth of gap) and the drop from the ACS springs seemed milder than most.

So now I'm curious if it ever settled down any lower, and what your currents thoughts are regarding the aesthetics, performance, stiffness vs comfort, etc.
Sorry I didn't notice your post until now. I am guessing my drop was less due to the adaptive. There was a note about expecting "less" lowering with M-Adaptive suspensions.

Anyway, I got about 5k miles on it now since the install. Last re-measure I did was about 2k miles later and post alignment that I got about 500 miles after install. It was nearly identical, within margin of error. It doesn't look like a "lowered" car, but it looks like a normal stock sports car in my mind. Similar to a RWD factory car. I now have 437M reps on it as well that bring the tire sidewall closer to the fender which lessens the visible look of wheel gap. If you want the ballpark measurement it was about 4-5 fingers (fist) front originally, now it's about 2-3. Rear is about 1-2 fingers gap. I find the wheel gap to be less in person than in photos.

Most of my initial thoughts still hold true after 5k miles. I'm content with the amount of drop, it rides decent as well. Similar to how it was OEM in my opinion. Still has that stock comfort float with a bit of bounce on big bumps at highway speed. Sport mode still feels a bit too sharp over imperfections, but much more controlled that comfort when hitting highway speed big bumps. It's just not perfect, but I didn't 'spring' for coils so it's considered acceptable to me. My Miata rides MUCH harder, it's like Sport++++ when going over bumps, so take my feelings on sport mode with a grain of salt. I do feel the car seems more responsive with the springs though as if it doesn't flop over as quick side to side and also doesn't squat as hard on launch. So it's definitely a bit firmer, but barely noticeable. The wheel and tire upgrade was the biggest game changer though. Non-runflats and a more performance oriented all season (Michelin AS3+) added 2x the grip around corners I swear.

I have a coworker with a 328xi clone car same color and options almost and his looks noticeably higher than mine now so it made a difference. Just not as dramatic as I expected. I would love the look of H&R springs or coils, but was being cheap about it, lol. Didn't want to fork over $1500+ for KW Streets. I did my own labor so $300 springs + $100 for alignment made it a cheap upgrade.

I have encountered 1 issue with the springs so far. The steering wheel sticks when making fairly tight right turns (just about of 150 degree of steering input) around 20mph+. Most noticeable when slowing down from a higher speed to make a right into a cross street. If you turn quickly it binds at 150 degrees and won't let you turn further until you let up and go at it again as if it contacts something during compression not allowing further steering angle. No tire rub sounds and happens with factory wheels and tires even. I can really exaggerate the issue going to a parking lot and whipping the car back and forth. Left turns have no issue, it will keep turning until the tires screech. No issues turning lock to lock at parking lot speeds and/or going over big driveway humps at tight turning angles.Anyone got an idea what I should check?

I attached a photo similar to the previous ones, but with the new wheels that are wider and a bit more aggressive. Did my best to get a similar angle and crop on the photo for comparison sake, although the un-cropped photo makes the wheel gap look less pronounced. For those curious, 225/40, 255/35, 19" 8.5/9.5 wheels. ET40 rear, ET38 front. Rear is on point, front could use a few mm more poke, but had to settle on ET38 in the package deal. ET32 or 35 would be nice. Was the only reps I could find that weren't black. Really wanted a lighter silver than the gunmetal too. Didn't want the OEM price tag and feared too much poke on them. I'm not a fan of hella flush or any poke at all. I'd even be ok with ET42-43 rears probably, they are borderline for me at ET40.



Without zoom/crop the gap is less noticeable.

Last edited by strobe89; 12-30-2018 at 02:24 AM. Reason: Added a non-cropped pic.
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      12-30-2018, 08:07 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by strobe89 View Post
I have encountered 1 issue with the springs so far. The steering wheel sticks when making fairly tight right turns (just about of 150 degree of steering input) around 20mph+. Most noticeable when slowing down from a higher speed to make a right into a cross street. If you turn quickly it binds at 150 degrees and won't let you turn further until you let up and go at it again as if it contacts something during compression not allowing further steering angle. No tire rub sounds and happens with factory wheels and tires even. I can really exaggerate the issue going to a parking lot and whipping the car back and forth. Left turns have no issue, it will keep turning until the tires screech. No issues turning lock to lock at parking lot speeds and/or going over big driveway humps at tight turning angles.Anyone got an idea what I should check?
Do you have VSS?
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      12-30-2018, 12:05 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweeney921 View Post
Do you have VSS?
I'm not sure M adaptive was available independent of the Dynamic Handling Package (which is a combination of VSS and M adaptive) so I'm guessing he does have VSS as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strobe89 View Post
If you want the ballpark measurement it was about 4-5 fingers (fist) front originally, now it's about 2-3. Rear is about 1-2 fingers gap. I find the wheel gap to be less in person than in photos.
Thanks for the very complete review. The 437M reps look great. Would you mind sharing a link to where you found them? The car def looks better (esp with the new tires/wheels) even if the drop doesn't seem very dramatic.

For frame of reference, I'd added a couple shots of my bone-stock F30 N55 xDrive with M adaptive. These measurements were taken with 1/2 tank of gas on OEM 19s with Conti DWS 06 tires in OEM sizes. Gap was measured from top of rim to bottom of fender: 4 5/8 in front and 4 1/2 in rear (so only 1/8 difference but it actually appears more significant that that to the naked eye...funny how your brain can detect such a mild difference).

Anyway, even if I had tiny Donald Trump hands , there's no way I have anywhere near a fist worth of gap (I'd say 2-3 fingers both front and rear depending on how I angle my hands) so I'm not sure why our OEM ride heights are so different on otherwise very similar cars.
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      12-30-2018, 01:51 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweeney921 View Post
Do you have VSS?
I do. According to my window sticker it was part of the Dynamic handling package for $1,000. Included Adaptive M suspension and Variable sport steering. So, LYTSOUT is correct. So many options on this car that the previous owner managed to break 60k on the sticker price . 3 year off lease price was 30k, that depreciation though!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LYTSOUT View Post
I'm not sure M adaptive was available independent of the Dynamic Handling Package (which is a combination of VSS and M adaptive) so I'm guessing he does have VSS as well.

Thanks for the very complete review. The 437M reps look great. Would you mind sharing a link to where you found them? The car def looks better (esp with the new tires/wheels) even if the drop doesn't seem very dramatic.

For frame of reference, I'd added a couple shots of my bone-stock F30 N55 xDrive with M adaptive. These measurements were taken with 1/2 tank of gas on OEM 19s with Conti DWS 06 tires in OEM sizes. Gap was measured from top of rim to bottom of fender: 4 5/8 in front and 4 1/2 in rear (so only 1/8 difference but it actually appears more significant that that to the naked eye...funny how your brain can detect such a mild difference).

Anyway, even if I had tiny Donald Trump hands , there's no way I have anywhere near a fist worth of gap (I'd say 2-3 fingers both front and rear depending on how I angle my hands) so I'm not sure why our OEM ride heights are so different on otherwise very similar cars.
I have pretty skinny fingers so that's why it's such a ballpark measurement that isn't very accurate. As you say, it depends how you angle your hands too. I just checked and got about 2-2.5 front and 1.5-2 rear of 'skinny' fingers. .5 is a bit of wiggle, but not enough for an extra finger . If you are worried about reverse rake like I was, I'd say the ACS springs are not too bad. Some of the Dinan pics look like they have a ton on xDrive cars. The reverse rake I ended up with is roughly equivalent to the OEM reverse rake most of the RWD cars, which is very slight. Just eye balling the difference in the springs when they were off the car, the front ACS springs were much shorter than OEM than the rear ACS vs OEM.

I tried to mirror your images for reference. Don't mind the dimly lit garage lighting and poor focusing aged iPhone. The flash just blinded the camera and couldn't read the ruler so no flash it was. I had just a bit over 1/2 tank in these pictures. The driver side seems to sit a bit higher and the RR sags a bit more than the rest it seems (gas tank?). Never noticed that in person though and could be my floor, I know it's not perfectly level and has some dips. Also could be the slight error in holding the ruler. Hard to get it perfect.




Also, here is a link to the eBay posting where I got my wheels. I caution the purchase even though I was content after some work. I received one wheel with a slight defect in the clear coat. Vendor only wanted to give a small credit towards a repair saying it wouldn't fail, but I didn't trust it. My father runs a wheel refinishing shop and said it will fail eventually since the clear was cracked (looked like shipping damage). Eventually after some pressure the vendor did send a replacement. Then once I got it and took them to get mount and balanced with new tires a different wheel was bent on the back lip and wouldn't balance. My father was able to repair it after the vendor seemed less than thrilled about sending another replacement or any additional credits. Obviously he was losing profit at this point. They needed better padding for international shipping. Bought them with an eBay coupon and paid about $800 for the set with shipping. The gun metal also appears darker in person than his photos which was unfortunate in my case as the OEM is a bit lighter. Moot point currently as the seller only has the 19" black version, or 20" gun metal currently. I linked my original item (19" gun metal) I purchased for reference.
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Last edited by strobe89; 12-30-2018 at 02:04 PM.
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      12-30-2018, 04:48 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strobe89 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweeney921 View Post
Do you have VSS?
I do. According to my window sticker it was part of the Dynamic handling package for $1,000. Included Adaptive M suspension and Variable sport steering. So, LYTSOUT is correct. So many options on this car that the previous owner managed to break 60k on the sticker price . 3 year off lease price was 30k, that depreciation though!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LYTSOUT View Post
I'm not sure M adaptive was available independent of the Dynamic Handling Package (which is a combination of VSS and M adaptive) so I'm guessing he does have VSS as well.

Thanks for the very complete review. The 437M reps look great. Would you mind sharing a link to where you found them? The car def looks better (esp with the new tires/wheels) even if the drop doesn't seem very dramatic.

For frame of reference, I'd added a couple shots of my bone-stock F30 N55 xDrive with M adaptive. These measurements were taken with 1/2 tank of gas on OEM 19s with Conti DWS 06 tires in OEM sizes. Gap was measured from top of rim to bottom of fender: 4 5/8 in front and 4 1/2 in rear (so only 1/8 difference but it actually appears more significant that that to the naked eye...funny how your brain can detect such a mild difference).

Anyway, even if I had tiny Donald Trump hands , there's no way I have anywhere near a fist worth of gap (I'd say 2-3 fingers both front and rear depending on how I angle my hands) so I'm not sure why our OEM ride heights are so different on otherwise very similar cars.
I have pretty skinny fingers so that's why it's such a ballpark measurement that isn't very accurate. As you say, it depends how you angle your hands too. I just checked and got about 2-2.5 front and 1.5-2 rear of 'skinny' fingers. .5 is a bit of wiggle, but not enough for an extra finger . If you are worried about reverse rake like I was, I'd say the ACS springs are not too bad. Some of the Dinan pics look like they have a ton on xDrive cars. The reverse rake I ended up with is roughly equivalent to the OEM reverse rake most of the RWD cars, which is very slight. Just eye balling the difference in the springs when they were off the car, the front ACS springs were much shorter than OEM than the rear ACS vs OEM.

I tried to mirror your images for reference. Don't mind the dimly lit garage lighting and poor focusing aged iPhone. The flash just blinded the camera and couldn't read the ruler so no flash it was. I had just a bit over 1/2 tank in these pictures. The driver side seems to sit a bit higher and the RR sags a bit more than the rest it seems (gas tank?). Never noticed that in person though and could be my floor, I know it's not perfectly level and has some dips. Also could be the slight error in holding the ruler. Hard to get it perfect.




Also, here is a link to the eBay posting where I got my wheels. I caution the purchase even though I was content after some work. I received one wheel with a slight defect in the clear coat. Vendor only wanted to give a small credit towards a repair saying it wouldn't fail, but I didn't trust it. My father runs a wheel refinishing shop and said it will fail eventually since the clear was cracked (looked like shipping damage). Eventually after some pressure the vendor did send a replacement. Then once I got it and took them to get mount and balanced with new tires a different wheel was bent on the back lip and wouldn't balance. My father was able to repair it after the vendor seemed less than thrilled about sending another replacement or any additional credits. Obviously he was losing profit at this point. They needed better padding for international shipping. Bought them with an eBay coupon and paid about $800 for the set with shipping. The gun metal also appears darker in person than his photos which was unfortunate in my case as the OEM is a bit lighter. Moot point currently as the seller only has the 19" black version, or 20" gun metal currently. I linked my original item (19" gun metal) I purchased for reference.
VSS is speed sensitive, so maybe its cruising assistance (20+ mph) is a factor? 150 deg of steering wheel movement is a pretty big input. Just mothballing ideas...

For diagnosis, you could go to a large, completely deserted parking lot and recreate the problem. When the steering binds just keep the wheel where it is and come to a stop. Then take a look at the suspension/steering components for any issues.
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      12-30-2018, 06:57 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweeney921 View Post
VSS is speed sensitive, so maybe its cruising assistance (20+ mph) is a factor? 150 deg of steering wheel movement is a pretty big input. Just mothballing ideas...

For diagnosis, you could go to a large, completely deserted parking lot and recreate the problem. When the steering binds just keep the wheel where it is and come to a stop. Then take a look at the suspension/steering components for any issues.
I have been to a parking lot to really recreate it. Making lefts I can flip the wheel 180 at 20mph and start to get the tires to screech like I'm trying to do some autoX, but making rights it hits barrier at about 150degrees, just before tires will start to screech. I don't believe it has anything to do with VSS, although I'm a novice at how it works.

I just know it is a damn near hard stop when it hits the point I'm speaking of. You can only pass that point by letting up a bit and reducing steering input and speed then it will let you tuck it past 150 degrees. Once you get past that point you can speed up until it starts screeching tires, but it actually has trouble unwinding back past the 150 degree point until slowing down and unloading the suspension a bit. It's like there is a point in which a certain amount of suspension compression on tight right turns has some interference. I'd make a video of it, but I'd need someone with some steady hands to record it as I toss the car about in a parking lot.

I can put the car on jack stands and look, but I'm not super knowledgeable about the workings of suspensions and steering. It's happened enough I know the wheel position it happens and can turn to that on jackstands. I could try and put the jack under the left front (likely where it's happening since that side is compressed on right-handers to re-create some compression. I only know enough to manage changing springs on my own (with guides) so my chance of knowing what to look for is near zero. There is absolutely no issue with steering at low speeds and at a stop. It's only once you pass about 15-20mph and throw a bit of steering angle at it. If you tried to autoX my car, you'd fail miserably at right-handers due to this issue. I've been living with it for several thousand miles because it's not very often you need that much steering input at that kind of speed on the street. Turning into my neighborhood off a 45mph street is when I notice it the most. If I only slow down to about 20mph before starting to make my turn, it will hit the bind point. Slowing down to 15mph or so before making the turn requires less steering angle and or too slow/not enough compression to cause the issue.
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      01-01-2019, 03:01 PM   #38
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Quote:
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I have the Dinan springs + bump stops combo on adaptive suspension and I'm pretty happy with it. With the front lip, it is a bit low so you have to be careful but it's nothing crazy low. Without the front lip there is not problem at all.

I like the overall look and feeling. Personally, I wouldn't pay more to get rid of the adaptive suspension... I really like how the car handle the curve and the look it perfect for me
Have you noticed a bottoming out feeling and crashing sound when you encounter changes in surface such as the transition from road to overpass? I have same setup and when I encounter these it feels like my suspension is bottoming, otherwise suspension is fine. It痴 not all of these transitions just the ones where the seam in road is more abrupt or uneven.

Last edited by AFRIEND435; 01-01-2019 at 03:08 PM.
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      01-02-2019, 07:34 PM   #39
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I have the Dinan springs + bump stops combo on adaptive suspension and I'm pretty happy with it. With the front lip, it is a bit low so you have to be careful but it's nothing crazy low. Without the front lip there is not problem at all.

I like the overall look and feeling. Personally, I wouldn't pay more to get rid of the adaptive suspension... I really like how the car handle the curve and the look it perfect for me
Have you noticed a bottoming out feeling and crashing sound when you encounter changes in surface such as the transition from road to overpass? I have same setup and when I encounter these it feels like my suspension is bottoming, otherwise suspension is fine. It's not all of these transitions just the ones where the seam in road is more abrupt or uneven.
I do not feel the suspension bottoming out on a change of surface, but I do feel it sometimes when hitting a pothole... You are right that sometimes small potholes feels like gigantic potholes :S

Other comment: after a few months with the car, the top plates seems to wear faster
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      01-14-2019, 11:13 PM   #40
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I do not feel the suspension bottoming out on a change of surface, but I do feel it sometimes when hitting a pothole... You are right that sometimes small potholes feels like gigantic potholes :S

Other comment: after a few months with the car, the top plates seems to wear faster
Thank you for your reply. Kw coil over now has plug & play units for our cars that plug right in to the factory system. Looks like they are around 2800ish. I値l be exploring this further.
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