[SantaEugence]

Decent gains to 311hp. I asked about some other tuners hitting higher figures, the reply was 1) this was the amount they felt safe recommending for this engine and 2) questioning whether other's RR was quite as accurate or 'tamperproof' as their £100k one (implying others are able to easily manipulate figures or calculations whereas their dyno does not).
Anyway I'm happy with it now, certainly feel the difference the torque is brutal.
Some insta-filter-tastic pics and the dyno graph.
Also no hating on the go-faster stripes...

[Eddamoo]

Nice healthy gains. Graphs looks healthy too which is all you really want from a dyno.

Peak numbers mean nothing really, all flywheel numbers on dyno's are basically an educated guess anyway.

[Hooded]

310bhp+ is fine, but I’m Not sure I like the power peaking at 3744rpm then starting to drop off? Did they say why it’s now peaking a lot earlier than it was stock (4008rpm) ?

Ignoring the actual power differences, I prefer this graph where the car hits it’s peak after 4000rpm so it matches the auto box’s gear changes in sport mode better..

[SantaEugence]

Originally Posted by Hooded

310bhp+ is fine, but I’m Not sure I like the power peaking at 3744rpm then starting to drop off? Did they say why it’s now peaking a lot earlier than it was stock (4008rpm) ?

Ignoring the actual power differences, I prefer this graph where the car hits it’s peak after 4000rpm so it matches the auto box’s gear changes in sport mode better..

I'm no expert, but is it better to have the max hp closer to the higher torque? Ie on mine the torque is tailing off a lot by 4000 but by having the peak hp slightly sooner it's closer?

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by SantaEugence

I'm no expert, but is it better to have the max hp closer to the higher torque? Ie on mine the torque is tailing off a lot by 4000 but by having the peak hp slightly sooner it's closer?

You want the Peak HP a bit closer to before the car changes up a gear really not just after it’s changed gear.

These cars keep roughly between 3500-4500rpm when your foots to the floor in sport mode and full auto. Your car as stock from the factory made its peak power smack in the middle of that range, and BMW set the gear changes in full auto to make the most of that stock power band.

The example of a tuned car I posted above made its peak power a bit higher than 4000rpm but still peaked before the car changes up on full throttle.

If you watch this video of a 330d on full acceleration you’ll notice after 2nd gear it’s always between 3500 and 4600rpm, and 4th and 5th gear pull from roughly 3700rpm to 4600rpm, so would you want the power Peaking at 3750rpm then dropping? Your cars lost 40bhp by the time the box changes up a gear with that power curve. Personally I’d prefer it to peak higher up the Rev range.

[SantaEugence]

Originally Posted by Hooded

You want the Peak HP a bit closer to before the car changes up a gear really not just after it’s changed gear.

These cars keep roughly between 3500-4500rpm when your foots to the floor in sport mode and full auto. Your car as stock from the factory made its peak power smack in the middle of that range, and BMW set the gear changes in full auto to make the most of that stock power band.

The example of a tuned car I posted above made its peak power a bit higher than 4000rpm but still peaked before the car changes up on full throttle.

If you watch this video of a 330d on full acceleration you’ll notice after 2nd gear it’s always between 3500 and 4600rpm, and 4th and 5th gear pull from roughly 3700rpm to 4600rpm, so would you want the power Peaking at 3750rpm then dropping? Your cars lost 40bhp by the time the box changes up a gear with that power curve. Personally I’d prefer it to peak higher up the Rev range.

The thing is you aren't going to get the best out of it unless you have the box mapped to the tune, which they offered but was another £250.
Personally I don't find the stock shifting in sport that brilliant anyway and I can use the paddles if I really want to.
I did put the Alpina map on too, but again that's aimed at the D3 power so not ideally suited to a mapped 330d, although it does go nicer and the smoother shifting is nicer.

Interesting point though I'll ask the tuner see what they come back with (probably - "well sounds like you need a box map to match the remap then 🙄")

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by SantaEugence

The thing is you aren't going to get the best out of it unless you have the box mapped to the tune, which they offered but was another £250.
Personally I don't find the stock shifting in sport that brilliant anyway and I can use the paddles if I really want to.
I did put the Alpina map on too, but again that's aimed at the D3 power so not ideally suited to a mapped 330d, although it does go nicer and the smoother shifting is nicer.

Interesting point though I'll ask the tuner see what they come back with (probably - "well sounds like you need a box map to match the remap then 🙄")

That’s why you want the tuned power curve to roughly mimic the stock one but with more power if you’re leaving the gearbox map standard in an auto car.

Looking at your cars current power curve Post remap you don’t want to be holding the gear much after 4200rpm. It would probably be quickest keeping it roughly in the range of 3200-4200rpm on full charge!

You can probably set the shift points where you want them yourself with the Xhp gearbox flash tool.

[330Stevie]

Interesting points made Hooded; I’m South west based and have been considered AT for mine at some point. Have always resisted launch on mine. Prefer the drivability to enjoy the engine than scrubbing the tyres at traffic light GPs so never considered the box matching the power curve.
In the YT clip however is the guy manually shifting tho so not relying on box software?
Some good times posted; carrying full tank of fuel as well....

[Eddamoo]

Originally Posted by Hooded

310bhp+ is fine, but I’m Not sure I like the power peaking at 3744rpm then starting to drop off? Did they say why it’s now peaking a lot earlier than it was stock (4008rpm) ?

Ignoring the actual power differences, I prefer this graph where the car hits it’s peak after 4000rpm so it matches the auto box’s gear changes in sport mode better..

I'm afraid i have to disagree with this dude and i hope i can explain my reasoning.

The GTB2056 on an N57 simply shouldn't be able to produce much more than 315-320BHP in a modern engine as its not big enough get the air through. And that's assuming the engine has great volumetric efficiency (VE).

The reason why the peak power is achieved lower down the RPM band with a Remap is because the turbo is strained to its limit for much longer. Lower down the RPM (around Peak Torque) the engine benefits from a much higher VE which combined with the additional boost/fuel - its this increased combustion efficiency that pulls the power band lower. The combustion efficiency over 4000rpm drops off a cliff as Diesel fuel burns so slowly.

That Dyno Dyanmics RR looks to be well off anything i've seen before - it almost looks like a hybrid turbo, or they got the RPM figures wrong. Road dyno's can only guess flywheel numbers at best, but i have no idea how Dyno Dyanmics do it as last time i saw one they didn't even do a coast down.

[PG325]

Originally Posted by SantaEugence

Decent gains to 311hp. I asked about some other tuners hitting higher figures, the reply was 1) this was the amount they felt safe recommending for this engine and 2) questioning whether other's RR was quite as accurate or 'tamperproof' as their £100k one (implying others are able to easily manipulate figures or calculations whereas their dyno does not).
Anyway I'm happy with it now, certainly feel the difference the torque is brutal.
Some insta-filter-tastic pics and the dyno graph.
Also no hating on the go-faster stripes...

I'm local to Avon Tuning so might call them to see what they can do on my 435i.

What sort of price is stage 1 and out of interest, why is the acceleration slower?

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by Eddamoo

I'm afraid i have to disagree with this dude and i hope i can explain my reasoning.

The GTB2056 on an N57 simply shouldn't be able to produce much more than 315-320BHP in a modern engine as its not big enough get the air through. And that's assuming the engine has great volumetric efficiency (VE).

The reason why the peak power is achieved lower down the RPM band with a Remap is because the turbo is strained to its limit for much longer. Lower down the RPM (around Peak Torque) the engine benefits from a much higher VE which combined with the additional boost/fuel - its this increased combustion efficiency that pulls the power band lower. The combustion efficiency over 4000rpm drops off a cliff as Diesel fuel burns so slowly.

That Dyno Dyanmics RR looks to be well off anything i've seen before - it almost looks like a hybrid turbo, or they got the RPM figures wrong. Road dyno's can only guess flywheel numbers at best, but i have no idea how Dyno Dyanmics do it as last time i saw one they didn't even do a coast down.

I’m not going to disagree with everything you’ve said there, or get into how accurate or not the readings are on that particular RR, but Plenty of these cars can match the original power curve still peaking around 4000rpm as the stock car does after a remap.

Here’s another example where before and after remap power both peak just over 4000rpm as the OP’s car did stock. I can post about 20 examples done on different Dynos showing this is normal on these cars.

[SantaEugence]

Originally Posted by PG325

I'm local to Avon Tuning so might call them to see what they can do on my 435i.

What sort of price is stage 1 and out of interest, why is the acceleration slower?

Not entirely sure what that 'acceleration time' on the graph refers to, perhaps some one could explain that one?
The actual acceleration is definitely better, it's brutal with so much torque much improved.
Think it was £349 for the RR and remap, or perhaps £299 just for the map? Think they may do a 10% off for certain professions or perhaps enthusiast club discount if you ask.

[SantaEugence]

Originally Posted by Hooded

I’m not going to disagree with everything you’ve said there, or get into how accurate or not the readings are on that particular RR, but Plenty of these cars can match the original power curve still peaking around 4000rpm as the stock car does after a remap.

Here’s another example where before and after remap power both peak just over 4000rpm as the OP’s car did stock. I can post about 20 examples done on different Dynos showing this is normal on these cars.

Is matching the existing map shape the best thing just because it suits the existing box map, or is it better because actually having the power peak further up the range is better in general? Ie do tuners do that because actually it's not as good but it means people don't need to worry about fiddling with their gearbox and it suits more out of the box

[330d xdrive Scotty]

Its interesting that the AC Schnitzer performance upgrade has the peak power at 3400rpm : https://preisliste.ac-schnitzer.de/a...00&ID_NR=10315

I understand it is a piggy back mod, so wont change any of the gearbox values ?

[Watsey]

Although I don't want to bash the OP's experience/outcome with the remap of his car, I do agree with some of the other comments that the peak power does appear to be occurring a little low in the rev range.

I've spoken with several established tuners over the years since I've had my 30d and the consensus appears to be that the 30/35d units, which have the same crankshaft / con rods / main bearings & bolts / pistons, can be reliably tuned to 400-450bhp (although Stage 2 hardware mods would be required to achieve that). Remapping a 30d to ~310bhp is rather conservative even for a Stage 1 remap.

Having peak power at ~3750rpm is definitely on the low side. Although it will make the car feel very torque-rich, the power band will be even narrower than OEM.

My 30d has been on several dynos and has a peak power plateau from 3500-4250rpm. Power falls away quickly after 4500 (as they all do), but these units aren't about getting to the redline - dropping into a rich torque/power band for the next gear is more important.

A couple of dyno graphs are attached for info.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by SantaEugence

Is matching the existing map shape the best thing just because it suits the existing box map, or is it better because actually having the power peak further up the range is better in general? Ie do tuners do that because actually it's not as good but it means people don't need to worry about fiddling with their gearbox and it suits more out of the box

Obviously it’s better to roughly match the best shift points of the stock map in an auto so you get maximum acceleration still with the box in full auto mode. Otherwise you need to drive it in manual mode changing the shift points a little to get the ‘very best’ out of the increased power or flash the gearbox with a new map with shift points that match the new power curve better.

Don’t get me wrong your car isn’t so drastically out of line with the shift points of the auto box that it will make it suck for performance, it’s just not making its peak power at the optimum point now for the shift points of the gearbox on full auto in sport mode (it’s actually more closer to the comfort mode auto shift points with the box in D at full charge). At 310bhp your car will be considerably faster than stock now from rolling, but will be slightly faster still if you change up manually a little sooner than the gearbox would on full auto mode, due to having a noticeably lower rpm power peak than stock.

Looking at the new power curve your car will be quickest kept roughly within the range of 3300 and 4100rpm, where stock it was quickest kept within the range of roughly 3600 and 4400rpm. As I pointed out earlier the shift points on the auto box in sport mode roughly keep it between 3500 and 4600rpm after 2nd gear in full auto mode when your foots to the floor which is optimised for the stock power curve by BMW.

The Xhp gearbox flash tool allows you to customise and change the shift points yourself I believe, so would allow you to optimise it to your remap. In the meantime enjoy your cars increased power

[SantaEugence]

Originally Posted by Watsey

Although I don't want to bash the OP's experience/outcome with the remap of his car, I do agree with some of the other comments that the peak power does appear to be occurring a little low in the rev range.

I've spoken with several established tuners over the years since I've had my 30d and the consensus appears to be that the 30/35d units, which have the same crankshaft / con rods / main bearings & bolts / pistons, can be reliably tuned to 400-450bhp (although Stage 2 hardware mods would be required to achieve that). Remapping a 30d to ~310bhp is rather conservative even for a Stage 1 remap.

Having peak power at ~3750rpm is definitely on the low side. Although it will make the car feel very torque-rich, the power band will be even narrower than OEM.

My 30d has been on several dynos and has a peak power plateau from 3500-4250rpm. Power falls away quickly after 4500 (as they all do), but these units aren't about getting to the redline - dropping into a rich torque/power band for the next gear is more important.

A couple of dyno graphs are attached for info.

I've (respectfully) raised many of the points in this thread with the tuners so will await a response.

In terms of conservative map I don't think I agree from what I've seen? Most tuners quote around that for a stock 30d with no other modifications. If higher figures were easily and safely achievable I don't see why other tuners (including the one I used with a lot of expensive kit and expertise) wouldn't do that since let's be honest, the higher figures would draw in more customers.

[SantaEugence]

Originally Posted by Hooded

Obviously it’s better to roughly match the best shift points of the stock map in an auto so you get maximum acceleration still with the box in full auto mode. Otherwise you need to drive it in manual mode changing the shift points a little to get the ‘very best’ out of the increased power or flash the gearbox with a new map with shift points that match the new power curve better.

Don’t get me wrong your car isn’t so drastically out of line with the shift points of the auto box that it will make it suck for performance, it’s just not making its peak power at the optimum point now for the shift points of the gearbox on full auto in sport mode (it’s actually more closer to the comfort mode auto shift points with the box in D at full charge). At 310bhp your car will be considerably faster than stock now from rolling, but will be slightly faster still if you change up manually a little sooner than the gearbox would on full auto mode, due to having a noticeably lower rpm power peak than stock.

Looking at the new power curve your car will be quickest kept roughly within the range of 3300 and 4100rpm, where stock it was quickest kept within the range of roughly 3600 and 4400rpm. As I pointed out earlier the shift points on the auto box in sport mode roughly keep it between 3500 and 4600rpm after 2nd gear in full auto mode when your foots to the floor which is optimised for the stock power curve by BMW.

The Xhp gearbox flash tool allows you to customise and change the shift points yourself I believe, so would allow you to optimise it to your remap. In the meantime enjoy your cars increased power

I emailed xhp some questions earlier, so tempted but £260, in my personal view, is a bit much to ask for what they're offering. Appreciate it allows much more tinkering but many tuners offer a custom map of the box for less with at least my local one giving at least one free reset (on the ecu map assume same or more on the box) if it gets wiped to default.
Still if the demand is there then they can charge what they want of course.

Interesting point above about the AC map though, it doesn't mention any changes to shift points and I can't imagine they'd have put that map together without some development or knowledge?

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by SantaEugence

In terms of conservative map I don't think I agree from what I've seen? Most tuners quote around that for a stock 30d with no other modifications. If higher figures were easily and safely achievable I don't see why other tuners (including the one I used with a lot of expensive kit and expertise) wouldn't do that since let's be honest, the higher figures would draw in more customers.

Each tuner will have their own experience, capabilities, and preferences. What could be achieved isn't always what is achieved.

Then the 'dyno debate' is chucked into the mix and the bar room bunfight is inevitable.

My point was that tuning to (say) 310bhp on the basis of safety is very conservative. These units are pretty much bomb-proof - any tuning limitations at Stage 1 level are due to the flow rates of the turbo / fuel pump / injectors, rather than the strength of the crank, rods or pistons.

Irrespective of the headline figures achieved, the torque and power curves are important. In that respect i do think that Avon Tuning's map may leave the engine feeling like it's dropping off the cliff prematurely.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by Watsey

My point was that tuning to (say) 310bhp on the basis of safety is very conservative.

Irrespective of the headline figures achieved, the torque and power curves are important. In that respect i do think that Avon Tuning's map may leave the engine feeling like it's dropping off the cliff prematurely.

Agree^

310bhp is on the low end of average for a stage 1 remap on these cars now and definitely conservative where safety is concerned.

[SantaEugence]

Originally Posted by Hooded

Agree^

310bhp is on the low end of average for a stage 1 remap on these cars now and definitely conservative where safety is concerned.

Just out of curiosity is this your car Watsey on BW Chiptunes Dyno? Stock, PPK and Remap...

You say this, am I missing something? I got to page 4+ on google of companies that do remaps for this car and not one quoted more than 310 for a stock 330d.
The only company showing more was Evolve but that didn't look to be stock and was already on 260 before the map - backed up by the fact a company offering remote Evolve mapping only quoted 308.
So I have to say it doesn't look like the average at all, not without additional mods be that DPF/exhaust/intake etc.

Edit - in fact the only company I've found quoting higher figures is DMS and a quick google shows much scepticism of their claimed gains
Evolve only quote 50hp increase on a stock car.
Are you chaps referring to a 'Stage 1' including additional minor level mods?

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by SantaEugence

You say this, am I missing something? I got to page 4+ on google of companies that do remaps for this car and not one quoted more than 310 for a stock 330d.
The only company showing more was Evolve but that didn't look to be stock and was already on 260 before the map - backed up by the fact a company offering remote Evolve mapping only quoted 308.
So I have to say it doesn't look like the average at all, not without additional mods be that DPF/exhaust/intake etc.

Edit - in fact the only company I've found quoting higher figures is DMS and a quick google shows much scepticism of their claimed gains
Evolve only quote 50hp increase on a stock car.
Are you chaps referring to a 'Stage 1' including additional minor level mods?

310-315bhp seems to be the average from a stage 1 on these cars, and a lot of tuners do tend to quote around 310 now.

There's a guy from Evolve on this forum occasionally and he posted a dyno example just below 330bhp for the F30 330d a while ago, which they claim to be able to get out of these. DMS quote the highest figure of all 331bhp, which is at the absolute limits of what the stock turbo could possibly manage in my opinion. Simon from Emaps used to quote 325bhp and 660nm torque until more recently, he now quotes 310bhp and 650nm, I'm not exactly sure why he's changed his map, but someone on here who used him last year and asked him about the new lower figures said he said something about the software he's now using has 650nm as the safe torque limit for these , Jason from BW Chiptune gets 315-320bhp from his map on these.

For a F3x 330d remap I'd class 300-309bhp lower end, 310-319bhp average, 320-330bhp higher end for a stage 1. Above 330bhp stage 2 mods required including possible turbo upgrade to get much higher.