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      08-16-2019, 08:09 AM   #661
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Z51 for the win at least until the other Z Vettes make their appearance but they’ll be much more expensive obviously.
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      08-16-2019, 12:01 PM   #662
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Originally Posted by c1pher View Post
I'm really not interested in the Z51. I drive spiritedly but not on a track. For me Z51 is just bragging rights. The non-Z51 has a higher top speed if you want to talk yourself out of spending an additional $5k.
Higher speed or not, I'd much rather be in a Z51-equipped C8 anyplace above say, 120 MPH.
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      08-16-2019, 12:33 PM   #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
It might be about bragging rights, I think it may also have something to do with making your car unique. A common view held about the C8 seems to be that given the performance vs price, ie bang for the buck there are going to be a lot of these things around. The downside I see to them is they will be somewhat common to see as opposed to the cars that they would compete with in performance.

When you think about the base model and it's specs/performance numbers compared to what was available only a few short years ago it's lightyears ahead of what we had available. The thing is in hypercar territory of a few years ago, and frankly well beyond what 99% of the population could possibly drive to the limit. I have a friend who has a very nicely kitted out C7, he has had the same driver training that I have had and he has said it's way more car than he can drive to the limit.

Interesting times really. Would I have one, maybe. I hope to get a look at one and maybe a test drive, but one of the things I love about my 993 is it's uniqueness. There are lots of cars that are way faster, but I could likely keep with them if pressed but that's just not my thing anymore. A bit of time on a twisty road is good for me.

My current C6 is more capable than what I can do with it . In fact, my old C6Z was way more car than I could handle stock, and it's only down slightly on power vs. The model I have now.

It will be interesting how the new C8 drives. Don't get me wrong, my current C6 gives me a sense if security when pushing the envelope, but they have always been known to bite you if you have all the "nannies" turned off.

That's one thing I like about my daily (128i)....its one car I can push to its limits, but we are talking 200+ less HP too. Nevertheless, it's a fun little car as I've always been a straight line racer, and this little car is expanding my horizons!
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      08-16-2019, 01:51 PM   #664
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Is it true that 2020 C8 is entirely sold out?
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      08-16-2019, 02:22 PM   #665
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Is it true that 2020 C8 is entirely sold out?
No.
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      08-16-2019, 06:53 PM   #666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
This is an interesting post. On one hand you say, the Z51 package is "just bragging rights." Then go on to say, the non-Z51 has a higher top speed, as if that's not just bragging rights?

It's like an 8-9 mph difference and it comes down to aero and gearing.
I think you mistook what I said. I meant to say that if you’re worried about bragging rights, the non Z51 has a higher top speed. There will be people who also buy the Z51 just to say they have it. My car will never reach 194mph so its a moot point for me.
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      08-16-2019, 06:56 PM   #667
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Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Higher speed or not, I'd much rather be in a Z51-equipped C8 anyplace above say, 120 MPH.
Like I said, I’ll never be on a track so I’ll never see the benefit. If you’re driving 120mph on the highway, I don’t want to be around you.
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      08-18-2019, 02:05 PM   #668
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You don't need C8 Z51 to cruise at 120 lol, even my 1995 Maxima could do that just fine.
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      08-19-2019, 07:53 AM   #669
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Haven’t seen this posted here. Some good info and specs and you can even preorder one for yourself if you like what you see.
https://www.chevycorvette.com/2020-Corvette-Stingray
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      08-19-2019, 02:52 PM   #670
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Serious question: anyone seeing any possible effects on other mid-engine cars pricing? I mean, a similar optioned Porsche (911 GTS?) costs about twice C8. What would be the reason to buy a Porsche other than a status symbol?
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      08-19-2019, 03:17 PM   #671
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I doubt it, and honestly all the hysteria sounds kind of nuts. The C7 had world beating performance for its time, was priced around the same, had greatly improved quality, and Corvette fans loved it. Yet all the other marques went about their business and prospered.

It’s hilarious how every internet discussion about Porsches, BMW’s, McLarens (lol) and Supras (ok this last one should be worried) has some fun-guy-at-parties chime in with ‘why would i buy xxx when the C8 is coming’?

No question, people will defect to different brands depending on what they see and like. But the Corvette has had the same value proposition since its birth and it’s never significantly hurt a European brand’s sales, has it? Someone correct me with facts if i’m wrong.
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      08-19-2019, 03:19 PM   #672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c1pher View Post
I think you mistook what I said. I meant to say that if you’re worried about bragging rights, the non Z51 has a higher top speed. There will be people who also buy the Z51 just to say they have it. My car will never reach 194mph so its a moot point for me.
Gotcha. I've only ever gotten close to that speed on 2 wheels. On the rev-limited in 6th gear on my buddies 2006 R1 years ago.

I'd never do that these days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Pleaser View Post
Serious question: anyone seeing any possible effects on other mid-engine cars pricing? I mean, a similar optioned Porsche (911 GTS?) costs about twice C8. What would be the reason to buy a Porsche other than a status symbol?
I'm not sure it will have an impact. A company like Porsche isn't going to magically change what profit margin they are willing to make on a 911 or Cayman just because the 'Vette went mid-engine.

But I could be completely wrong. Just guessing. I'm assuming people shopping a $70k (LT2 and Z51 for example) car aren't likely cross-shopping it with a $130k car.

Or if they are, it's not because of money.
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      08-19-2019, 04:57 PM   #673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Pleaser View Post
Serious question: anyone seeing any possible effects on other mid-engine cars pricing? I mean, a similar optioned Porsche (911 GTS?) costs about twice C8. What would be the reason to buy a Porsche other than a status symbol?
Nope! Porsche has a diehard fanbase. No hate from me. But their $20k+ profit margin per car is not going away anytime soon.
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      08-19-2019, 05:59 PM   #674
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This car is vastly different and fresh compared to the previous Corvette generations and I see here on this site, other sites and talk to people I know and they say they’re likely going to go with the revolutionary new Corvette. Being a brand new mid engine sports car with the winning racing history of Corvette is a too tempting for many real car folk. The buzz is huge after the debut and will result in many new first time Corvette owners and return customers, me included.

The fact that this will be the first Corvette available with right hand drive will open up markets that were hesitant to buy the previous car. They will sell very well and many to first time buyers who leave other marquee sports cars and go with the Bowtie.
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      08-19-2019, 06:25 PM   #675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
Gotcha. I've only ever gotten close to that speed on 2 wheels. On the rev-limited in 6th gear on my buddies 2006 R1 years ago.

I'd never do that these days.



I'm not sure it will have an impact. A company like Porsche isn't going to magically change what profit margin they are willing to make on a 911 or Cayman just because the 'Vette went mid-engine.

But I could be completely wrong. Just guessing. I'm assuming people shopping a $70k (LT2 and Z51 for example) car aren't likely cross-shopping it with a $130k car.

Or if they are, it's not because of money.
I admit I am mostly self-projecting. My last cars have been 4 BMW and one MB. Never owned an American car or cared about Chevy (OK admit it, I was/am blown away by ZL1 smoking through Nurburgring). But I just can't ignore C8. There has never been a mid-engine V8 under $150k, ever. And I have never seen so much hype for a car. Maybe Porsche doesn't get affected but Supra with its fake air vents looks like a complete joke compared to C8, even M2...
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      08-20-2019, 01:20 AM   #676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Pleaser View Post
Serious question: anyone seeing any possible effects on other mid-engine cars pricing? I mean, a similar optioned Porsche (911 GTS?) costs about twice C8. What would be the reason to buy a Porsche other than a status symbol?
Part of that is the inherently higher amount of engineering and R&D that has to go into making an inferior chassis as fast or faster. It simply costs more to make a porsche to make it competative with a mid-engined car. You need more HP, more suspension tricks (active sways, rear wheel steering, etc.) and all sorts of other things that cost a lot of money. It's not a crap car by any stretch, but all of this extra $$$ is buying you that tiny golf-club space between the front seats and the rear axle. The more that companies like Chevrolet and others up their sports-car game, the harder it gets for someone like Porsche to make something faster each time around. Then there are the materials, but I would wager that's not the biggest cost by far and I'd also wager they are not running some crazy profit margin, probably decent, but again, you spend a lot in R&D to make a rear-engine design go as fast or faster.
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      08-20-2019, 05:17 AM   #677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth One View Post
I doubt it, and honestly all the hysteria sounds kind of nuts. The C7 had world beating performance for its time, was priced around the same, had greatly improved quality, and Corvette fans loved it. Yet all the other marques went about their business and prospered.

It’s hilarious how every internet discussion about Porsches, BMW’s, McLarens (lol) and Supras (ok this last one should be worried) has some fun-guy-at-parties chime in with ‘why would i buy xxx when the C8 is coming’?

No question, people will defect to different brands depending on what they see and like. But the Corvette has had the same value proposition since its birth and it’s never significantly hurt a European brand’s sales, has it? Someone correct me with facts if i’m wrong.
I think the question is if the Corvette never existed, how many more Porsche 911 sales would there be? The 'Vette has always outsold the 911. Will the C8 radically change the sales picture? Probably not, but the Vette sells about 3 to 1 to the 911 on average.
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      08-20-2019, 06:03 AM   #678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Pleaser View Post
Serious question: anyone seeing any possible effects on other mid-engine cars pricing? I mean, a similar optioned Porsche (911 GTS?) costs about twice C8. What would be the reason to buy a Porsche other than a status symbol?
Nothing new? It has always been like that, one should go drive each then come back and decide
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      08-20-2019, 06:48 AM   #679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Pleaser View Post
Serious question: anyone seeing any possible effects on other mid-engine cars pricing? I mean, a similar optioned Porsche (911 GTS?) costs about twice C8. What would be the reason to buy a Porsche other than a status symbol?
Really, lots of reasons. It's really about choices....if the Vette is so good, then why have any other sports cars?
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      08-20-2019, 10:41 AM   #680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Pleaser View Post
Serious question: anyone seeing any possible effects on other mid-engine cars pricing? I mean, a similar optioned Porsche (911 GTS?) costs about twice C8. What would be the reason to buy a Porsche other than a status symbol?
Here's a more serious question.

The C7 Corvette already outperforms most Porsches and mid engine cars 2-5 times its cost. The C7 Grand Sport lapped Laguna Seca 2 full seconds faster than the new NSX, Ferrari F458 Italia, and all of Porsche's products except the RS line-up, and holds the record for the highest slalom test on M/T's instrumented tests. It can be had for $65K. You read that right. A car that beats ALL those cars costing 2-5 times MORE has been available since 2014...Is cheaper than a M2 Competition and laps most tracks seconds faster.

What would be the reason the C8 changes that perceived market besides it's got the engine in a different location? If Porsche sales didn't tank in 2014 and on, why would ANYONE assume it would because the C8 is out?

And in case anyone is interested, Corvette sales outpaced all Porsche non-SUV sales in North America. All by itself. GM sells more Corvettes, alone, than Porsche sells all of Boxster, Caymans, 911s, and Panameras combined.

The effect of C8 on Porsche sales will be at most a tiny ripple, IMO. People who are in the market to shop for a 911 will give the C8 a sniff, then buy the Porsche. Just like people who are in the market to buy a 911 have been, they probably looked at the C7 Corvette, and went ahead and bought a 911 anyway. Or they would have the 911 for the weekend and the Corvette as a daily beater if they're so inclined.
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      08-20-2019, 11:33 AM   #681
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I think the used base 911 or 911S market will take a hit when they can buy a brand new Vette for the same money.
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      08-20-2019, 12:07 PM   #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
I think the used base 911 or 911S market will take a hit when they can buy a brand new Vette for the same money.
I highly doubt that, for reasons Hack stated above.

A Porsche is still a premium, low volume product with a top tier brand name and image. For those very fortunate people who are able to spend $100k+ on a Porsche I dont think they give a crap about the "value" that the Vette offers. If they really want a Vette they will probably just pick one up to park next to their Porsche in their garage.

Again, like Hack stated, the value of the Vette has always been there compared to cars much more expensive. The only thing to really change for the Vette is that it looks more exotic now. Performance is just one aspect of purchasing a car. Craftsmanship, name brand, image, aspiration, etc and many other factors come into play as well. A Timex watch will keep perfect time and cost $100 but those that choose to buy a Rolex For $10k do so for more reasons than simply wanting to know what time it is.
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