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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N20, N26, B46, B48 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > N26 Forged internals Engine build
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      11-30-2020, 07:07 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Kel918 View Post
I actually spun the whole assembly 2 times and it never stopped spinning also I don't see any notching on the block. I took pictures of the block
As per sqwinny states, just double check, Since the rods used in that video are Max Speeding Rods with ARP2000 Rod bolts

Send through photos of both sides of the bottom of the cylinder walls, once you have confirmed. realistically, you want more than just 1-5mm of clearance, when the engine warms up, parts expand so if you don't have notching and the Max Speeding Rods aren't as wide as the CP's and your result is 1-5mm of clearance between the rod and the bottom of the cylinder wall currently. then that will quickly reduce to 0 once those rods expand from heat, really the notching should allow for about 10mm of clearance when the motor is up to temp.
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      11-30-2020, 09:21 AM   #68
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Just checked again they were notched
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      11-30-2020, 08:22 PM   #69
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Just checked again they were notched
Aye nice! You're almost ready to go! Super keen to see how it pans out mate.
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      12-01-2020, 09:31 AM   #70
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Aye nice! You're almost ready to go! Super keen to see how it pans out mate.
Thanks !! I’m picking up a parts only motor to finish building this block, then do a quick engine swap. The main concern I have is the turbo manifold. I can either add an external wastegate to the stock turbo manifold upgraded to a mambatek turbo, or get an n55 stock turbo. I would just get the n55 turbo cut and welded to the n20 manifold, then upgrade that turbo.
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      12-01-2020, 01:19 PM   #71
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I think I’m just going to add an external wastegate to the stock exhaust manifold
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      12-02-2020, 12:09 AM   #72
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Question about building engine like this: forged internals are strong no doubt but won't the engine housing block be the bottle neck then? Making that much power won't break the housing?
Also is the transmission driveshaft etc able to withstand that much torque?
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      12-02-2020, 08:29 PM   #73
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Question about building engine like this: forged internals are strong no doubt but won't the engine housing block be the bottle neck then? Making that much power won't break the housing?
Also is the transmission driveshaft etc able to withstand that much torque?

I also used cast iron cylinder liners to strengthen the block. I'm not going to run a lot of boost, about 20-22 psi max on the turbo, and 13-15 psi on the supercharger. I think the transmission should handle it, but I guess we're going to find out
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      12-02-2020, 10:22 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel918 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lixiang7349 View Post
Question about building engine like this: forged internals are strong no doubt but won't the engine housing block be the bottle neck then? Making that much power won't break the housing?
Also is the transmission driveshaft etc able to withstand that much torque?

I also used cast iron cylinder liners to strengthen the block. I'm not going to run a lot of boost, about 20-22 psi max on the turbo, and 13-15 psi on the supercharger. I think the transmission should handle it, but I guess we're going to find out
Would 22 psi require forged? Why not use stock replacement? I read forged are heavier which requires higher boost to compensate.
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      12-02-2020, 11:22 PM   #75
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Would 22 psi require forged? Why not use stock replacement? I read forged are heavier which requires higher boost to compensate.
from what I've read it all depends on your setup, if you run a big turbo that moves the torque curve in the upper revolutions then the engine should hold up to 400whp. However if you run a turbo that produces a lot of torque at low rpm's then the rod bolts would stretch and grenade your engine at around like 320-350 whp. Again that's what I've read so I'm just taking precautions since I'm going for 650-750 whp.
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      12-02-2020, 11:33 PM   #76
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lixiang7349 View Post
Would 22 psi require forged? Why not use stock replacement? I read forged are heavier which requires higher boost to compensate.
from what I've read it all depends on your setup, if you run a big turbo that moves the torque curve in the upper revolutions then the engine should hold up to 400whp. However if you run a turbo that produces a lot of torque at low rpm's then the rod bolts would stretch and grenade your engine at around like 320-350 whp. Again that's what I've read so I'm just taking precautions since I'm going for 650-750 whp.
Omg on a 2.0 L???????
Holy moly I've heard of tuned M133 putting down 500 but yours is a different animal. Jesus. How's the project going now?
Transmission wise I been told my 240i can handle up to 600whp.
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      12-03-2020, 01:44 AM   #77
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Omg on a 2.0 L???????
Holy moly I've heard of tuned M133 putting down 500 but yours is a different animal. Jesus. How's the project going now?
Transmission wise I been told my 240i can handle up to 600whp.
I'm pretty sure I've seen dyno's of the b58 putting down more than 600whp. The supra has the the same engine and transmission and they put down over 700whp.

Last edited by Kel918; 12-03-2020 at 07:52 AM..
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      12-03-2020, 09:58 AM   #78
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I'm pretty sure I've seen dyno's of the b58 putting down more than 600whp. The supra has the the same engine and transmission and they put down over 700whp.
oh yeah no doubt. this FB dude put down 800whp that finally bombed his transmission. but i wont say all trannys out there can hold up to 800 tho.
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      12-03-2020, 01:04 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lixiang7349 View Post
Omg on a 2.0 L???????
Holy moly I've heard of tuned M133 putting down 500 but yours is a different animal. Jesus. How's the project going now?
Transmission wise I been told my 240i can handle up to 600whp.
Auto? I believe the 8hp50 is rated up to 500nm tq

It would be kind of interesting to see if the 8hp70 (330d & 335d F30) rated at 700nm, would be a direct swap into other F30s with just some coding.

just out of pure curiosity, I can't imagine myself ever dropping enough money to make that kind of power

also good work so far Kel, thanks for the info and looking forward to your progress
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      12-03-2020, 01:40 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lixiang7349 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel918 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lixiang7349 View Post
Question about building engine like this: forged internals are strong no doubt but won't the engine housing block be the bottle neck then? Making that much power won't break the housing?
Also is the transmission driveshaft etc able to withstand that much torque?

I also used cast iron cylinder liners to strengthen the block. I'm not going to run a lot of boost, about 20-22 psi max on the turbo, and 13-15 psi on the supercharger. I think the transmission should handle it, but I guess we're going to find out
Would 22 psi require forged? Why not use stock replacement? I read forged are heavier which requires higher boost to compensate.
Engine wise you "should" be fine for around 500whp with forged rods/bearings/fuel pump/upgraded turbo. It all depends on the tune. Not sure how the n20 holds up to detonation while tuning for higher power levels compared to famous tuning engines of the past (4G63, k20, 2JZ, rb26, etc). Also we don't know at what power and turbo boost level the head will try and come off without upgrading head bolts/studs/gaskets.

Replacing internals with sleeves I wouldn't see why 1000hp couldn't by possible for the block itself. Fueling we have support to pretty close to that with upgraded LPFP/HPFP and port injection as a supplement.

Really truly, and. Realistically we should hit drivetrain limits before engine block limits. Not sure what the Getrag holds power wise for the 6MT crowd (simulator trans to e90 n52/n55 f30) or what the auto trans actually holds. Also big turbo limits are here as with a stage 2 turbo you're looking around 400whp +/- for off the shelf offerings for n20. Anything more than that will require a custom manifold at the moment.
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      12-03-2020, 05:33 PM   #81
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Auto? I believe the 8hp50 is rated up to 500nm tq

It would be kind of interesting to see if the 8hp70 (330d & 335d F30) rated at 700nm, would be a direct swap into other F30s with just some coding.

just out of pure curiosity, I can't imagine myself ever dropping enough money to make that kind of power

also good work so far Kel, thanks for the info and looking forward to your progress

Thanks !!
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      12-03-2020, 05:52 PM   #82
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Thanks !!
what's going on now? is it drivable or sitting in the garage?
i'm also very interested in building the n20 but not as crazy as yours.
how do you fix the soft steering?
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      12-03-2020, 10:57 PM   #83
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what's going on now? is it drivable or sitting in the garage?
i'm also very interested in building the n20 but not as crazy as yours.
how do you fix the soft steering?
the bmw is my daily driver, I have 2 other cars that I use for going out and other things. The parts only engine got dropped off today. I'm going to start taking it apart and getting things checked out. For the steering the obx racing strut bar helped out.
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      12-04-2020, 01:33 PM   #84
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I'm thinking of going with is garret gt-r chra and have it ported to our stock turbocharger exhaust turbine. Navardi do you think it's possible if I go with a bigger compressor housing ?? I’m just wondering if I can use the n55 compressor housing
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Last edited by Kel918; 12-04-2020 at 02:33 PM..
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      12-05-2020, 11:22 AM   #85
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I'm thinking of going with is garret gt-r chra and have it ported to our stock turbocharger exhaust turbine. Navardi do you think it's possible if I go with a bigger compressor housing ?? Iím just wondering if I can use the n55 compressor housing
I've been down this rabbit hole, save yourself headaches and spending money in inefficient places.

There is alot of reasons why trying to use a mix of garret CHRA and td04 housing or td04 turbine wheel won't work. Simply to many incompatible parts or lack of material/space to machine.

Overall best setup is going to be slapping a n55 stock turbo on, or stay with a stage 2 N20 turbo. Although given your power goals etc. N55 stock turbo and turbine housing is going to be better overall option for you. It'll flow more air, and the turbine housing won't be restrictive, it'll also mate up with the n20 DP etc, with the DV and outlet only requiring some modifications and the inlet mounting bracket.

BTW as sqwinny said, yeah block with sleeves, right head studs and main studs and closed deck should be more than capable of 1000hp, cranks are forged and ready to go. Its just everything else attached to it. If you break a n20 drive shaft etc just upgrade/convert to N55 related components since they're beefier. For example N55 drive shaft on F22 2 series for example is 6mm larger than the N20 28i version.
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      12-05-2020, 03:26 PM   #86
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pics of the parts engine I picked up. I plan to use the stock intake manifold as the basis towards making a custom manifold with fuel rails for port injection. Also plan on using the stock turbocharger to see what are the biggest chra's I can fit in it. The last thing is to take hpfp apart and try to figure what can be done to upgrade it or to send it out to a company that sells upgraded hpfp pumps to upgrade our stock hpfp.
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Last edited by Kel918; 12-05-2020 at 03:36 PM..
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      12-05-2020, 06:31 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Kel918 View Post
pics of the parts engine I picked up. I plan to use the stock intake manifold as the basis towards making a custom manifold with fuel rails for port injection. Also plan on using the stock turbocharger to see what are the biggest chra's I can fit in it. The last thing is to take hpfp apart and try to figure what can be done to upgrade it or to send it out to a company that sells upgraded hpfp pumps to upgrade our stock hpfp.
Spool makes a bolt on replacement for the HPFP. you have to have a custom tune for it to work. no option available at the moment like the n55/b58 guys to enable in bm3 or mhd. it is a pretty penny though:

http://spoolperformance.us/index.php...product_id=105
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      12-05-2020, 07:29 PM   #88
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Spool makes a bolt on replacement for the HPFP. you have to have a custom tune for it to work. no option available at the moment like the n55/b58 guys to enable in bm3 or mhd. it is a pretty penny though:

http://spoolperformance.us/index.php...product_id=105
just checked out their website thanks. Worst case scenario I'll go with them, I'm going to try and take apart the stock hpfp and see if anything can be done with it to increase flow
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