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      11-19-2019, 04:18 PM   #23
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Strange how so many people are pinning it on Vettel. I put it 100% on Leclerc and i'm not a fan of either driver!

Watch Leclerc's menouvre on Norris on lap 1, same corner and compare that to what Vettel did - it was the same menouvre but FAR more aggressive. VET's rear tyre hit LEC's front under acceleration. Cars are allowed to move under acceleration and LEC had full view of VET's car who was gently moving him to the slower line. The kid is just far too arrogant.
While true LeClerc moved aggressively towards Norris (who swerved to avoid a collision) IF LeClerc had hit Norris he'd had received a penalty. There's no doubt in my mind Vettal moved unnecessarily left - there was no need to move off the racing line other than to squeeze his teammate. There was no space to move left - his teammate was there!

And LeClerc could have avoided the collision (as Norris did) but in intra-team politics, he wasn't about to be pushed about.
For me this above.
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      11-19-2019, 04:59 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zofinger View Post
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Originally Posted by Eddamoo View Post
Strange how so many people are pinning it on Vettel. I put it 100% on Leclerc and i'm not a fan of either driver!

Watch Leclerc's menouvre on Norris on lap 1, same corner and compare that to what Vettel did - it was the same menouvre but FAR more aggressive. VET's rear tyre hit LEC's front under acceleration. Cars are allowed to move under acceleration and LEC had full view of VET's car who was gently moving him to the slower line. The kid is just far too arrogant.
While true LeClerc moved aggressively towards Norris (who swerved to avoid a collision) IF LeClerc had hit Norris he'd had received a penalty. There's no doubt in my mind Vettal moved unnecessarily left - there was no need to move off the racing line other than to squeeze his teammate. There was no space to move left - his teammate was there!

And LeClerc could have avoided the collision (as Norris did) but in intra-team politics, he wasn't about to be pushed about.
there was absolutely the need to move, every single driver would have done the same. if he didnt move, then leclerc would have braked later and kept the inside, which is exactly why he didnt move. By squeezing the opponent, that opportunity is taken away as they need to brake a lot earlier to ensure they can make the corner.

In all, quite an unfortunate incident, they were unlucky to get such damage and these things happen with two fiercely competitive and quick drivers.
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      11-19-2019, 05:02 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by zofinger View Post
While true LeClerc moved aggressively towards Norris (who swerved to avoid a collision) IF LeClerc had hit Norris he'd had received a penalty. There's no doubt in my mind Vettal moved unnecessarily left - there was no need to move off the racing line other than to squeeze his teammate. There was no space to move left - his teammate was there!

And LeClerc could have avoided the collision (as Norris did) but in intra-team politics, he wasn't about to be pushed about.
I was watching Rosberg discuss this today, he says it's absolutely normal for the car overtaking once they get ahead to start to move across to claim the straight ready for the next corner, which he said you expect as a driver and need to be aware, however he thinks it was a freak outcome as the touch was so light but didn't seem to push much blame on Vettel.

CLC didn't want to yield but Vettel was ahead so he perhaps should have given him the room.
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      11-20-2019, 03:32 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by stefan4 View Post
there was absolutely the need to move, every single driver would have done the same. if he didnt move, then leclerc would have braked later and kept the inside, which is exactly why he didnt move. By squeezing the opponent, that opportunity is taken away as they need to brake a lot earlier to ensure they can make the corner.

In all, quite an unfortunate incident, they were unlucky to get such damage and these things happen with two fiercely competitive and quick drivers.
What you say is fine with me except it doesn't acknowledge two facts 1) these are team mates (so in circumstances where they're not battling for the title you'd expect less agression than if they were on opposite teams) and moving across without first making sure you're clear of the car your passing is likely to cause contact and 2) CLC was on much better tyres so would have gotten back pass anyway. As i say - no point moving across other than to make CLC yield to avoid contact. He underestimated his young team mate....and not for the first time this season. Clearly Vettel's fault.

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      11-20-2019, 03:39 PM   #27
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I was watching Rosberg discuss this today, he says it's absolutely normal for the car overtaking once they get ahead to start to move across to claim the straight ready for the next corner, which he said you expect as a driver and need to be aware, however he thinks it was a freak outcome as the touch was so light but didn't seem to push much blame on Vettel.

CLC didn't want to yield but Vettel was ahead so he perhaps should have given him the room.
CLC should have given him room as playing the long game, he would have overtook him later anyway. But this driver won't be bullied and the over taking car needs to be fully in front to earn the right to move in front.
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      11-20-2019, 03:44 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
I was watching Rosberg discuss this today, he says it's absolutely normal for the car overtaking once they get ahead to start to move across to claim the straight ready for the next corner, which he said you expect as a driver and need to be aware, however he thinks it was a freak outcome as the touch was so light but didn't seem to push much blame on Vettel.

CLC didn't want to yield but Vettel was ahead so he perhaps should have given him the room.
CLC should have given him room as playing the long game, he would have overtook him later anyway. But this driver won't be bullied and the over taking car needs to be fully in front to earn the right to move in front.
As long as CLC leaves him a cars width in the track (once Smasher is outside him) I'm not sure CLC is then doing anything wrong. Smasher moves across into him.

1 CLC leaves room for a car outside
2 CLC is not obliged to move across and does not
3 Smasher makes the move into CLC

I'd be hugely surprised if Vettel is still a lead driver at a top manufacturer outfit next season. He's clearly on a rapid decline and is venting frustration in a catalogue of bizarre and unprofessional errors/tantrums. Recall the ramming of Hamilton from behind in a recent season!!
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      11-20-2019, 03:46 PM   #29
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I was watching Rosberg discuss this today, he says it's absolutely normal for the car overtaking once they get ahead to start to move across to claim the straight ready for the next corner....
Could be mistaken on the exact circumstances but Rosberg has form moving across a team mate without being fully in front - Barcelona 2016 (2017?). In that instance Hamilton (like CLC) was not going to back off however, unlike CLC, Hamilton moved right and kept going until he was on the grass, loss control and wiped both of them out of the race. Hamilton was showing he wasn't prepared to lift and I think CLC not moving will, in the long run, also stand him in good stead with anyone thinking of doing the same.
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      11-20-2019, 03:49 PM   #30
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As long as CLC leaves him a cars width in the track (once Smasher is outside him) I'm not sure CLC is then doing anything wrong. Smasher moves across into him.

1 CLC leaves room for a car outside
2 CLC is not obliged to move across and does not
3 Smasher makes the move into CLC

I'd be hugely surprised if Vettel is still a lead driver at a top manufacturer outfit next season. He's clearly on a rapid decline and is venting frustration in a catalogue of bizarre and unprofessional errors/tantrums. Recall the ramming of Hamilton from behind in a recent season!!
Agreed. Just pointing out if CLC did move left ultimately he'd have ended up with some decent points, more than Vettel. It might be however by staying bullet straight as he did, it'll hasten Vettel's decline within the team.
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      11-21-2019, 06:17 AM   #31
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Could be mistaken on the exact circumstances but Rosberg has form moving across a team mate without being fully in front - Barcelona 2016 (2017?). In that instance Hamilton (like CLC) was not going to back off however, unlike CLC, Hamilton moved right and kept going until he was on the grass, loss control and wiped both of them out of the race. Hamilton was showing he wasn't prepared to lift and I think CLC not moving will, in the long run, also stand him in good stead with anyone thinking of doing the same.
Of course, but the point I was making is that it's standard procedure to move across to take the straight (according to Rosberg) CLC knew that and stood his ground mostly.

You might as well put Magnussen and Grosjean in the red cars at the moment the result would be the same and much cheaper wage bill.
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