[doncarlyon]

Lets face it, if you are really into your cars, you wouldn't be looking for diesel cars unless its to simply fulfill a purpose, i.e. a work horse.

As far as a day to day car goes, the 20d is as good as anything else out there. Paired with the auto box, its pretty decent to drive. Its not fast, but in reality neither is a 330d or 335d.

[Rich9600]

How about a 320i?...

I took my wife's Cooper S to work this morning and the B48 has plenty of go and sounds pretty good in this application. But, standard fixed 'sports' exhaust drones a little at speed. Double Clutch auto is quick and fun with good sounding up-shifts under load.

It was a slow drive in and I looked at the mpg, I was shocked to note that trip mpg peaked at 50.6mpg at around 11 miles in!

The best I've seen from my F31 340i is 40.1 under similar boring conditions. My F30 330d never bettered 50mpg on this run and my E90 320d only did it under similar conditions. 12 mile commute in summer and slow but flowing traffic.

So, if you're not a high miler with long runs, why not a 320i or 330i. The B series petrols are great.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by thescouselander

When it comes to diesel discussions on fuel savings are irrelevant as any savings are wiped out by reliability/maintenance issues. For that reason I'd suggest the 320D is not the best all rounder.

And yet my 2013 325d (the 320d, but twin-turbo, so under more stress) is now on 75k, and the only engine fault has been an EGR valve coking up, fixed under warranty when the car was about 2 years old.

I strongly suspect that a large amount of the problems (timing chain in particular) come about from the ridiculous servicing interval that BMW use. Engine oil pretty well knackered at the oil changes leads to increased engine wear, and when you get to 5+ years / 100k+ miles, the timing chain failures.
Personally, my car gets an oil and oil filter change every 9-10k.

As I was always told, oil is cheap. Engines are expensive.

[gippy]

Originally Posted by Wills2

Can't agree with that, all depends on where you live and the roads you drive on but I can't do the overtakes I used to do in my F80 on the local moorland roads in my 740d and in the current loaner 320d I can't again do the overtakes that the 740d can.

Having a surfeit of power gives you options and the ability to pass slower traffic quickly and efficiently.

sure, it does depend on the road - but you'd have to be talking empty wide roads with very light traffic to be genuinely making up significant time in a faster car.

i used to have a 150bhp Citroen C4 2.0Hdi, after that, a FK2 Type R, and now my B58. My average time taken over a variety of destinations over the past 5 years remains roughly the same.

I used to be a relatively impatient driver and no doubt if i go back to 'daft mode', the overtakes i can do now in the 440i can be carried out much more safely than what I could do in the C4........but if i'm really honest, if i were to look at the time saved, and my average speed over that distance, it would be only a marginal improvement at best. You still eventually end up at a junction, or at a traffic light, there are far too many random variables.

The opportunities to do clear and safe overtakes remains marginally the same whatever the car i've been using - and i don't get to my destinations any quicker.

I just don't believe that because of this excess of power, you are able to get to your destinations significantly quicker than without, and unleashed your inner James Hunt in the process.

For me to be convinced, you'd have to have a car with at least triple the accelerative capacity, in order to execute more overtakes to get through traffic on your average single lane A or B road.

Normally if you get stuck behind a longer queue following an even slower lorry on such a road, you're at the behest of that queue, waiting for them to overtake before you can - or be a bit aggressive, and find gaps in between the queue to overtake - which more often than not leaves a trail of beeping horns and disgruntled drivers behind...

But i'm not having a go.....i bought a reasonably powerful car too (which in stock form is still a bit sluggish, needs a remap!), so i could enjoy its power properly on a circuit....

EDIT: actually there was an episode of Grand tour on this very point - obviously its a TV show and i know it's scripted, but James May wanted to prove this very point by racing some banger against their 3 luxury GT coupe's (one of em was the new 8) in Azerbaijan, point to point.

[RobUK]

What one needs and what one wants are two entirely different things

As for needing more power than a 320d, well only if you enjoy how it's delivered, how it sounds and how it makes the driving experience feel. You don't need a big engine to get ahead though, all you need is a ratty old Corsa and a willingness to drive really badly it seems.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by gippy

sure, it does depend on the road - but you'd have to be talking empty wide roads with very light traffic to be genuinely making up significant time in a faster car.

i used to have a 150bhp Citroen C4 2.0Hdi, after that, a FK2 Type R, and now my B58. My average time taken over a variety of destinations over the past 5 years remains roughly the same.

I used to be a relatively impatient driver and no doubt if i go back to 'daft mode', the overtakes i can do now in the 440i can be carried out much more safely than what I could do in the C4........but if i'm really honest, if i were to look at the time saved, and my average speed over that distance, it would be only a marginal improvement at best. You still eventually end up at a junction, or at a traffic light, there are far too many random variables.

The opportunities to do clear and safe overtakes remains marginally the same whatever the car i've been using - and i don't get to my destinations any quicker.

I just don't believe that because of this excess of power, you are able to get to your destinations significantly quicker than without, and unleashed your inner James Hunt in the process.

For me to be convinced, you'd have to have a car with at least triple the accelerative capacity, in order to execute more overtakes to get through traffic on your average single lane A or B road.

Normally if you get stuck behind a longer queue following an even slower lorry on such a road, you're at the behest of that queue, waiting for them to overtake before you can - or be a bit aggressive, and find gaps in between the queue to overtake - which more often than not leaves a trail of beeping horns and disgruntled drivers behind...

But i'm not having a go.....i bought a reasonably powerful car too (which in stock form is still a bit sluggish, needs a remap!), so i could enjoy its power properly on a circuit....

EDIT: actually there was an episode of Grand tour on this very point - obviously its a TV show and i know it's scripted, but James May wanted to prove this very point by racing some banger against their 3 luxury GT coupe's (one of em was the new 8) in Azerbaijan, point to point.

You're confusing wanting to get past the car in front with wanting to get to your destination sooner, I never said that was the goal, so you're creating a rationale for the overtake that for me doesn't exist.

I talked about being able to execute an overtake in a timely and efficient manner should you wish to and a car like the F80 M3 gives you options that a 320d never can. (which is obvious really so I'm confused you're trying to debate the point with a strawman about arriving at the same time)

It's not about racing to get somewhere or being James Hunt...

[gippy]

Originally Posted by Wills2

You're confusing wanting to get past the car in front with wanting to get to your destination sooner, I never said that was the goal, so you're creating a rationale for the overtake that for me doesn't exist.

Well that's fair enough then, I just assumed as you mentioned slowe traffic that you wanted to overtake to get somewhere quicker.
If you're using the car for fun and encountering slower traffic then, sure, fair enough.
But that begs the question why you'd have a 740 for fun only.
And if that's not the case, and you are using it to get from point A to point B , i.e. a destination, then surely the only rationale for overtaking would be to get to point B quicker..... Anyway whatever, as long as you're happy with your car

[thescouselander]

Originally Posted by robbiep

And yet my 2013 325d (the 320d, but twin-turbo, so under more stress) is now on 75k, and the only engine fault has been an EGR valve coking up, fixed under warranty when the car was about 2 years old.

I strongly suspect that a large amount of the problems (timing chain in particular) come about from the ridiculous servicing interval that BMW use. Engine oil pretty well knackered at the oil changes leads to increased engine wear, and when you get to 5+ years / 100k+ miles, the timing chain failures.
Personally, my car gets an oil and oil filter change every 9-10k.

As I was always told, oil is cheap. Engines are expensive.

A coked up EGR valve at 2 years old - exactly my point.

[Dave-ncl]

Originally Posted by thescouselander

When it comes to diesel discussions on fuel savings are irrelevant as any savings are wiped out by reliability/maintenance issues. For that reason I'd suggest the 320D is not the best all rounder.

OK.. Where do I start....

I had a (as mentioned in other posts) 320d luxury 12 plate. Bought will 11k on the clock. Traded it in 2 months ago, almost 4 years to the day, with 106k on the clock. 95,000 in 4 years.

I bought the best oils and due to driving style and journey type, the cbs would get to its service interval each10 to 12k. Obviously I replaced pads occasionally and dics once. The only none service item that was done to that car was dmf and clutch. I'm sure a lot of manuals covering these miles at that age would need a clutch. Parts from europarts and labour at a local indy (£180) totaled under £800.

The mpg was unreal. I used to drive Newcastle to London every 6 weeks or so. I used to fill the tank to the top and arrive doing about 68 - 70ish mpg. I refilled the tank in London docklands and crunched the numbers and the gauge was out by 1.2mpg (data analyst nerd ocd).

One day I thought... Why an I carrying half a tank of fuel 300 miles? So I stuck £20 in and headed off. I got to east London on 78mpg and dropped to about 74 average by the time I got to Heathrow. The next morning put £20 in and I headed back via M1 as opposed to M11, A1 my preferred route as I needed to stop and pick up a puppy near a M1 turnoff. (Alfreton I think)

I got the dog and had a steady drive not to alarm the dog. I got to the M18 turn off to Doncaster and was sitting on 82mpg. Whether I put my toe down a bit after that or there were more positive gradiant on the remainder of the trip, I'm not sure (car didnt have a spirit level) but got back on 76mpg. Fuel was 1.05 at the time. I used a santander 123 card with 3% fuel cashback. Based on taking 2mpg off the 76, 74mpg over 630 miles at 1.02 a litre was London and back on under £40.

I also did a Newcastle, Dover, Luxembourg, Basil, Zurich, Strasbourg, dusseldorf, rotterdam, Amsterdam and ferry to Newcastle. 1700 miles in 10 days and spent around £100 on fuel abiet, shell v power as 89 cents a litre in Luxembourg and cheap fuel elsewhere.

I now have my 2nd 320d. Its a beautiful car in black with all the shadow edition toys. Its an auto and is thirsty on a motorway compared to the manual but similar around the doors. I had wanted a 330d or 335d for the extra horses, but this auto box drivers a nice pull when you want and it only has 6bhp more than the last. The auto has done wonders for my clutch knee.

So although I don't agree with much of what was quoted, its each to their own. Whatever suits you Sir is what the best car is. For me, maybe this car remapped (it won't happen) would make it even better and give it that little bit more, but I'm happy with it.

I planned to take some photos today as I took it for a safe wash and polish but it pee'd it down when I was waiting if it being finished. Still looks shiney tho

That's it... Enjoy your cars chaps.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Wills2

I've had a G20 320d for the last 6 days, it's a manual 320d sport, I've tried to like it but the combination of a manual box and that engine isn't great.

And yet I was out in a 420d conv with the auto the week before and I remarked how lovely it was, amazing what a different gearbox makes.

The G20 also seems small inside to me smaller than my old F80 which doesn't make sense at all.

Is there something that might have changed your perspective on car size since the F80 days?

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by thescouselander

A coked up EGR valve at 2 years old - exactly my point.

If you knew a fraction of the knowledge that your posts imply, you'd be well aware that there were faults on the EGR valves, which have been fixed under warranty or a recall.

Highly notable that you don't mention the engine that is in your car. I'm suspecting that it's more out of shame that it's a 420i, rather than a lack of bragging about it being a 440i ?

Yes, my car had that EGR fault. It was fixed, by BMW Assist, at the roadside on a Saturday afternoon, and the car has been faultless since. I'm probably going to keep it another 2 years or so, by which time it'll be hitting 100k.

What's your 420i GC done, in terms of age and mileage ?

[thescouselander]

Originally Posted by robbiep

If you knew a fraction of the knowledge that your posts imply, you'd be well aware that there were faults on the EGR valves, which have been fixed under warranty or a recall.

Highly notable that you don't mention the engine that is in your car. I'm suspecting that it's more out of shame that it's a 420i, rather than a lack of bragging about it being a 440i ?

Yes, my car had that EGR fault. It was fixed, by BMW Assist, at the roadside on a Saturday afternoon, and the car has been faultless since. I'm probably going to keep it another 2 years or so, by which time it'll be hitting 100k.

What's your 420i GC done, in terms of age and mileage ?

Not sure what you're getting at there. I don't have a complex about engine size - yes I have a 420i which is more than adequate for the speeds I drive at although I could easily have afforded a 440i if I'd have wanted to.

I have been bitten by diesel though - it's not a good choice for lower mileage applications so, as I said, it's probably not a good all rounder choice.

[vadimo]

got 320D X Drive and being family man with 2 little girls, I now spend less and less thinking about cars and now more conscious about money too, I look at my current car as best all rounder, its economical, reasonable on tax and insurance and great mileage and it looks great.

I can only see its use increasing more later as girls get older and I become taxi driver.

I have it with many good options fitted as stock, plus i remapped, retrofitted with:

heated steering with m performance stitching,
Extended armrest
M performance diffuser
2 channel dashcam (took my day to do it properly)

My next car is M3/4 which I plan to get at the end of production cycle if the upcoming m car as 2 year old or something... but for now 320D just right

Also let's not blame BMW here, government demanded diesel, lower emissions, car users got on to that too and manufacture answered it.

320D and similar cars is just a modern day diesel as a result of this demand.

[adam.b]

Before tax increase (penalty for 40k+ cars) i have paid less for 330d than it will cost me 320d with same gadgets. Tax was similar for F31 body.
Yes, mpg is better on 320d but that's it.
For comparison on the same commute to work, when i fill up to full (52-53 liters same driving style/conditions):
318d aut f31 - 560miles MY 2013
330d F30 - 560miles MY 2016
335d F31 - 520miles MY 2018 (now is 50-60 speed limit on my stretch of M1 and i'm getting even more from full tank )

on X3 30d i'm getting 580miles when fill up 62-63 liters.

[C320]

Originally Posted by Quiet_Riot

Whenever I think of the 320d. This old video comes to mind:

Recently, I have been thinking about the G30, 320d...

My question is. Is it really the best of both worlds? The best blend in the range of mpg and decent 0-60? Or is there something in the BMW range others would consider?

That video helped convince me to get a 320d for my wife. She had been running a petrol engined 3.2 litre Volvo XC90 and for many years we've always had 6 cylinder cars. However, after returning to work with a longer commute we figured a change of vehicle for her was due.

Looked at and tried lots of different options from XC60's, Mercedes C250 and the 330d. In terms of what she needed a decent spec 320d ticked all of the boxes.

I know they can be re-mapped and achieve astonishing figures for a 4 pot diesel but that's not what she needs. The 320d / 520d is absolutely a genuine all-rounder, it truly is pretty much all the car you ever need. Performance, economy & comfort and super low road tax (compared to the £550 plus for her XC90 and my X6 M).

[PX3]

Originally Posted by thescouselander

Not sure what you're getting at there. I don't have a complex about engine size - yes I have a 420i which is more than adequate for the speeds I drive at although I could easily have afforded a 440i if I'd have wanted to.

I have been bitten by diesel though - it's not a good choice for lower mileage applications so, as I said, it's probably not a good all rounder choice.

I own an X3 2.0d and have done for 6yrs with low mileage and never had an issue with the DPF or EGR (or anything else for that matter).

I agree with the OP, it's a great all rounder.

[Bernard1973]

I prefer the looks of the 420d.
But I suppose I would say that as I've got one

[RobUK]

It's all in the question "Is the 320d the perfect all rounder" because if you were given an unlimited budget with which to buy and run your perfect all rounder then I'll guess most people wouldn't buy a 320d.

A better question would be - given a budget which only stretches to the price of a 320d or thereabouts, and your typical journey type suits diesel, and you need to occasionally transport four people and some luggage, and there is a BMW dealer within a convenient distance, and you find the driving position in the 320d comfortable, and you're happy with the performance of a 320d, etc.

[Chris Peacock]

My first 320d was a 2013 Manual M-sport which I had from new and covered 115k miles in 3 years, without any fault beyond the rear light falling out.

My second F30 is a 2016 320d manual M-sport which has covered 97k miles, had the EGR fixed under the recall but otherwise again been absolutely faultless work horse which I still enjoy driving every day.

Gutted that after two extended test drives I just haven't connected with the new G series car and will have to look towards something from a different manufacturer, possibly Alfa but more than likely Audi.

Truly great car the F30 320d, great mpg regardless of my general driving style and utterly reliable - credit to BMW.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Chris Peacock

Gutted that after two extended test drives I just haven't connected with the new G series car and will have to look towards something from a different manufacturer, possibly Alfa but more than likely Audi.

Got to ask what is missing with the G20? Most report it is improved in many ways (grilles the exception) and moved the game on for BMW.

[Bluewater335D]

I quite like my E92 335D

[SkyJawa]

It may be the best all rounder but one started up next to me the other day and boy do they sound like a tractor!