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      10-26-2020, 05:36 PM   #1
bseward
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MHD questions

My 2016 340I RWD had MHD stage 2 with DP installed when I bought it 3 months ago.( The previous owner only had the car for 3 months when he installed the mods but had to sell due to serious medical condition.)

I wanted to drive the car for awhile before I made any changes to tune so we left it on, with the plan for me to buy License to be able to make adjustments in the future. The car is a blast to drive and the power is beyond any other BMW ive owned. I also want to add XHP trans tunes soon to get the most out of the setup.

As I would like to have the stock tune as backup, do I need to have the previous owner restore the stock tune via his MHD license before I flash with my own? Or are the original bin files stored in onboard memory? Ive studied the MHD manual and searched for info relating to this but so far haven't found anything addressing this specific scenario.

I just got the MHD WiFi dongle today and was able to use the app without logging in to see what was loaded, and there appears to be 2 sets of files that I am assuming (hoping) to be the tune and backup for stock. The previous owner is willing to flash back to stock if that is required, but would save a 2 hour round trip if I it isn't necessary.

I emailed MHD this question 3 weeks ago but haven't heard back. Which begs the next question, Should I be looking at BM3 or MG flasher as an alternative? Although im digging the tune, the restrictions on licensing seem a tad over the top. Are BM3 and or MG Flasher as well integrated with xhp? (Also I think they both use different OBDII adapters so there is that, but could be wrong.)
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      10-26-2020, 06:06 PM   #2
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So I may have found the answer to my own question.(I swear I searched endlessly prior to posting ) In this N54 tech forum the question of restoring to stock is addressed (by MHD). But im still a little hazy on how that works and Im balking at plunking down 540$ to go forward with MHD.

https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31802
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      10-26-2020, 08:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bseward View Post
My 2016 340I RWD had MHD stage 2 with DP installed when I bought it 3 months ago.( The previous owner only had the car for 3 months when he installed the mods but had to sell due to serious medical condition.)

I wanted to drive the car for awhile before I made any changes to tune so we left it on, with the plan for me to buy License to be able to make adjustments in the future. The car is a blast to drive and the power is beyond any other BMW ive owned. I also want to add XHP trans tunes soon to get the most out of the setup.

As I would like to have the stock tune as backup, do I need to have the previous owner restore the stock tune via his MHD license before I flash with my own? Or are the original bin files stored in onboard memory? Ive studied the MHD manual and searched for info relating to this but so far haven't found anything addressing this specific scenario.

I just got the MHD WiFi dongle today and was able to use the app without logging in to see what was loaded, and there appears to be 2 sets of files that I am assuming (hoping) to be the tune and backup for stock. The previous owner is willing to flash back to stock if that is required, but would save a 2 hour round trip if I it isn't necessary.

I emailed MHD this question 3 weeks ago but haven't heard back. Which begs the next question, Should I be looking at BM3 or MG flasher as an alternative? Although im digging the tune, the restrictions on licensing seem a tad over the top. Are BM3 and or MG Flasher as well integrated with xhp? (Also I think they both use different OBDII adapters so there is that, but could be wrong.)
The previous owner either needs to give you the login, or MHD *should* be able to do a license transfer. It makes no sense for MHD to get twice the money for the same car.
BM3 has a documented process for this, but requires assistance from their great customer support.
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      10-27-2020, 05:37 AM   #4
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Just curious - how many kms/miles does the car have now and when you say "The previous owner only had the car for 3 months when he installed the mods but had to sell due to serious medical condition.)" - does that mean that MHD was installed when the car was 3 months old (back in 2016)?

I am just curious about the durability and live-expectancy of the engine with all those tunes around, especially Stage 2....
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      10-27-2020, 03:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Newt View Post
The previous owner either needs to give you the login, or MHD *should* be able to do a license transfer. It makes no sense for MHD to get twice the money for the same car.
BM3 has a documented process for this, but requires assistance from their great customer support.
I will try again to contact MHD as It will be easier to stay on this platform
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      10-27-2020, 03:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
Just curious - how many kms/miles does the car have now and when you say "The previous owner only had the car for 3 months when he installed the mods but had to sell due to serious medical condition.)" - does that mean that MHD was installed when the car was 3 months old (back in 2016)?

I am just curious about the durability and live-expectancy of the engine with all those tunes around, especially Stage 2....
Yes that was a little unclear. I bought from the second owner. The first owner was a lease and put 26K miles on in 3 1/2 years. Car sold to the owner I bought from (BMW dealer CPO purchase) late 2019. I bought the car with 29k miles. The mods and tune where installed early this year and have seen limited miles.

I agree there is a risk, but I am fairly conservative, do proper warm up and rarely rev it out past 5k. Already changed the oil and will do every 4K . I also don’t do launch control take offs.( I am a little more worried about breaking the trans than the engine)

Some folks out there are really pushing the turbo boost with Ethanol fueling and meth injection. ( I am fueling with 93octaine ) I can’t be pushing much past 400whp, probably a bit less. Time will tell.
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      10-27-2020, 06:27 PM   #7
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I will try again to contact MHD as It will be easier to stay on this platform
You might need to get the original owner to request/start that process. He'll need to be involved either way since he currently owns the license.
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      10-27-2020, 06:40 PM   #8
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You might need to get the original owner to request/start that process. He'll need to be involved either way since he currently owns the license.
Yes he’s willing to do that .
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      10-27-2020, 08:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
Just curious - how many kms/miles does the car have now and when you say "The previous owner only had the car for 3 months when he installed the mods but had to sell due to serious medical condition.)" - does that mean that MHD was installed when the car was 3 months old (back in 2016)?

I am just curious about the durability and live-expectancy of the engine with all those tunes around, especially Stage 2....
The fact that you think a Stage 2 OTS tune would hurt the car lmfao.
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      10-28-2020, 03:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC_B5X View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
Just curious - how many kms/miles does the car have now and when you say "The previous owner only had the car for 3 months when he installed the mods but had to sell due to serious medical condition.)" - does that mean that MHD was installed when the car was 3 months old (back in 2016)?

I am just curious about the durability and live-expectancy of the engine with all those tunes around, especially Stage 2....
The fact that you think a Stage 2 OTS tune would hurt the car lmfao.
I don't think that - we all know the car was not made for it. Which means it WILL shorten the life expectancy of components. Simple engineering truth. The only question (which is never easy to answer, as it depends heavily on the user, tune and individual vehicle) is by how much...
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      10-28-2020, 11:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
I don't think that - we all know the car was not made for it. Which means it WILL shorten the life expectancy of components. Simple engineering truth. The only question (which is never easy to answer, as it depends heavily on the user, tune and individual vehicle) is by how much...
I ran Stage 2 on my car since the 2nd day I had it (32k miles), up until 40k, then put meth with a custom tune until 50k, then went upgraded HPFP and made 470whp/520wtq until 63k then I went Pure 800. Nothing on my car ever broke or had issues on stock turbo.

Stage 2 is nothing, stop trying to scare the dude.
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      10-28-2020, 11:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC_B5X View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
I don't think that - we all know the car was not made for it. Which means it WILL shorten the life expectancy of components. Simple engineering truth. The only question (which is never easy to answer, as it depends heavily on the user, tune and individual vehicle) is by how much...
I ran Stage 2 on my car since the 2nd day I had it (32k miles), up until 40k, then put meth with a custom tune until 50k, then went upgraded HPFP and made 470whp/520wtq until 63k then I went Pure 800. Nothing on my car ever broke or had issues on stock turbo.

Stage 2 is nothing, stop trying to scare the dude.
I am not trying to scare anyone, neither am I stating anything a sensible person doesn't know already. The key components of the car, from a spec and design perspective, were never engineered for anything beyond a „Stage 1" (taking MPPSK into account). Simple fact, no speculation.

Besides that - I simply asked a question.
Your answer and personal experience is noted and appreciated.
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Last edited by Skyhigh; 10-28-2020 at 11:50 AM..
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      10-29-2020, 09:14 AM   #13
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Quote:
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I am not trying to scare anyone, neither am I stating anything a sensible person doesn't know already. The key components of the car, from a spec and design perspective, were never engineered for anything beyond a ¬„Stage 1" (taking MPPSK into account). Simple fact, no speculation.

Besides that - I simply asked a question.
Your answer and personal experience is noted and appreciated.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t OTS tunes like MHD only kick in at certain throttle thresholds, and operate like stock under “normal” driving? So the biggest wear and tear factor would still in the hands (feet) of the driver if this is so.

My intention is to only use the extra hp/tq/boost to pass Mustangs and Chargers on the highway :-) , or to just to know it’s there if needed :-). But if you are tracking 2 days a week and hitting the drag strip regularly, or logging 0-60 Dragy runs on the way to pick up the eggs you volunteered to get for the cake your wife is baking (actual scenario), maybe your mileage may vary?. But then again, you could have done all those things on stock tune, with oil you haven’t changed in 18K miles and suffer catastrophic failure anyway (actual scenario).

You pay to play one way or another, either in extra care and maintenance or replacing parts you’ve thrashed
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      10-29-2020, 09:46 AM   #14
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licenses are account and VIN bound .
so no transfer for you .
You will have to buy the full package , lock your vin the new license, flash to stock or anything else and be done with it

end of story
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      10-29-2020, 09:52 AM   #15
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There is not getting around there will be more wear & tear from higher boost & loads.
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      10-29-2020, 10:13 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bseward View Post
Correct me if Iím wrong, but donít OTS tunes like MHD only kick in at certain throttle thresholds, and operate like stock under ďnormalĒ driving? So the biggest wear and tear factor would still in the hands (feet) of the driver if this is so.

My intention is to only use the extra hp/tq/boost to pass Mustangs and Chargers on the highway :-) , or to just to know itís there if needed :-). But if you are tracking 2 days a week and hitting the drag strip regularly, or logging 0-60 Dragy runs on the way to pick up the eggs you volunteered to get for the cake your wife is baking (actual scenario), maybe your mileage may vary?. But then again, you could have done all those things on stock tune, with oil you havenít changed in 18K miles and suffer catastrophic failure anyway (actual scenario).

You pay to play one way or another, either in extra care and maintenance or replacing parts youíve thrashed
Incorrect. A tune is a new ECU software. Meaning a new map. Meaning that there is no specific threshold - your engine will behave differently from stock on every throttle step. This is not to say it will behave unsafely, but simply differently! The details are down to the individual map.

Apart from that - your logic is true - the more you play, the more you pay, irrespective of the map. This said - the more "stressful" the map, the less safety margins (if any at all), irrespective of how you play. So you can look at it both ways.

No one in his right mind would claim however that engine/transmission/etc. wear and failure rate is not increased by an aftermarket tune.
As long as we all agree with the above, there is neither an intent to scare, nor to comfort anyone. Just a recommendation to make educated decisions.
I was just curious about your car's history.
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      10-29-2020, 02:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T_H_O_M_A_S View Post
licenses are account and VIN bound .
so no transfer for you .
You will have to buy the full package , lock your vin the new license, flash to stock or anything else and be done with it

end of story
Yes I understood that, and am ok with purchasing new license. The original question was about returning car to base/stock tune before I flashed with my own MHD license, was it necessary to have the original MHD that is locked to the vin to do that. I now understand that the stock tune, with adaptions, can be re-flashed with my (soon the be acquired ) MHD license independent of previous flash.
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      10-29-2020, 02:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
Incorrect. A tune is a new ECU software. Meaning a new map. Meaning that there is no specific threshold - your engine will behave differently from stock on every throttle step. This is not to say it will behave unsafely, but simply differently! The details are down to the individual map.

Apart from that - your logic is true - the more you play, the more you pay, irrespective of the map. This said - the more "stressful" the map, the less safety margins (if any at all), irrespective of how you play. So you can look at it both ways.

No one in his right mind would claim however that engine/transmission/etc. wear and failure rate is not increased by an aftermarket tune.
As long as we all agree with the above, there is neither an intent to scare, nor to comfort anyone. Just a recommendation to make educated decisions.
I was just curious about your car's history.

Yep, went into buying this car with eyes wide open.
As for MHD stage 2 tunes timing, fuel trims and boost being significantly different than stock under moderate throttle I’d be surprised. Would be interesting to compare logs. But that seems like whole different discussion.
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      10-29-2020, 03:09 PM   #19
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You can register MHD with any gmail etc... just make sure you use a burner account when registering... transfer the account to the next person but it is locked to that VIN#... the account can be used on any android device... I actually have it on 2 separate phones for my car.. depending which one I have at the time... this no selling thing is BS...

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      10-29-2020, 05:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T_H_O_M_A_S View Post
licenses are account and VIN bound .
so no transfer for you .
You will have to buy the full package , lock your vin the new license, flash to stock or anything else and be done with it

end of story
If this statement is true, and MHD doesn't have an official license transfer process, that tells me all I need to about them. That's a shady business practice they feel they're entitled to more than 1 full price sale per car.

Yup, confirmed.

Can I transfer my license?
Licenses are personal and stored by google along the account used at purchase time. The purchases are tied by google to the first account and can not be transferred to a new google account.
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Last edited by G.Newt; 10-29-2020 at 05:43 PM..
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      10-29-2020, 06:44 PM   #21
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You can register MHD with any gmail etc... just make sure you use a burner account when registering... transfer the account to the next person but it is locked to that VIN#... the account can be used on any android device... I actually have it on 2 separate phones for my car.. depending which one I have at the time... this no selling thing is BS...
You hit the nail on the head. The previous owner had given me his log in and even the android track phone he used to flash, but as the phone was not logged in to his gmail account when I went to load license's it failed. If he had not used his primary gmail account when registering MHD license, and used, as you suggest a "burner" account, I'd be all set. Maybe a smaller transfer fee would be reasonable, but to have to pay out 530$ just to adjust burbles and add xhp trans tune is making me look at BM3 or MG flasher as reasonable alternative .
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      10-29-2020, 06:55 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by G.Newt View Post
If this statement is true, and MHD doesn't have an official license transfer process, that tells me all I need to about them. That's a shady business practice they feel they're entitled to more than 1 full price sale per car.

Yup, confirmed.

Can I transfer my license?
Licenses are personal and stored by google along the account used at purchase time. The purchases are tied by google to the first account and can not be transferred to a new google account.
Yes, one and done. I'd be ok with a reasonable transfer fee even, but to have to shell out 500+ bucks just to tweak what is already loaded seems foolishly greedy.There is an old saying "Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered". Might have to switch tuning platforms just out of principle.
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